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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 05:46 PM
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I have got a new 8rda+ from rma and a new leadtek geforce4 ti4400.

This time the geforce4 didn't fried in de 8rda+, but it's acting strange in 3dmark, artifacts on default speed :?

And i can't get past the 200fsb, the board is not even 100% stable on 200mhz


Iam gona sell this board, and try another brand, but no more EPoX here.

I have had 2 8rda+'en and not even 1 was stable!!!
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 06:39 PM
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Hello rocky500

My point is you STILL haven't seen this problem and you won't, call back in a month and I'll eat my words if I'm wrong. Until then all I'm seeing is a chicken little syndrome.

You have a situation where Video cards die, you try another and it works fine in the same mother board. What the Mother board is set to only fry the first one?":O}

You have a situation in which used Video cards ( some, probably most of which were previously over clocked) and they die. That cannot be used as any sort of evidence as the Numbers are geometrically to small and the variables to great.

ALL that can be said is that some people, less than a dozen, (reported here) of the thousands who are using this motherboard had their cards die.

That one or two people who have used a new card had it die. What? Nobody ever got a dead DOA card before?

The gathering methods include such posts as "I have a friend who killed two." That is second hand information.

A survey of this sort can ONLY be in the lest bit useful if the numbers are extremely high! They are in fact extremely low as one would expect if there were no problem.

Remember the Click of death in Omega drives? They only produced a 1% defect rate (OK that's hear say taken from a recent post) But my point is that we ALL knew they were having problems.

This is very far from the case here. I once received two dead mother boards in a row. I could say that the maker was making crap. But what slants this is that the second motherboard was a RMA board sent as a replacement!

Appearances can be VERY deceiving. But the truth WILL out. Every day that goes by without hundreds of cards dying makes this very much less likely. O/C recently reported that a vendor reported having received large numbers of dead AMD CPUs.

Was he wrong to report it? No. was O/C wrong to pass it along to it's readers? No. Would we be wrong to place to much importance on his report? yes. Such information is only useful if it is followed up by dozens of similar reports. Those reports, to the best of my knowledge have not been forth coming.

So we have to chalk his report up as an anomaly, an isolated occurrence. statistically unimportant.

I submit that is the case here. We see a good many users of this board here for obvious reasons. we have seen very few cards die from undetermined causes, to link them to the mother board they are in when they die is in fact a mistake of logic.

To say there might be a link is speculation the wants proof. I'm saying that I "Believe" that sufficient time has now passed without proof to reduce the odds of there being an actual link to almost zero.

Everyday that passes increases those odds. While no two things can be said to be identical, motherboards do meet a very high standard of sameness. If say 1000 of these boards killed cards it would be almost impossible for the rest of them not to kill cards. The simple fact is that they don't.

A few people rightly brought their suspicions and hunches to the foreground in order to try and see if something was going on. I have no doubt they ill continue to do so as these things have a momentum of their own. But I "Believe" that time has passed their theories by.

The opposite case is asserting itself more strongly each day.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EluSiOn
This thread is not trying to put you off from using Epox and 8RDA+ but just let you know there are reports of people experience this kind of problem and the cause is still undetermined. This thread purpose is try let other people aware of this issue and try to do everything possible to avoid from happening again.
Daniel,

We know that using this thread collecting data is very bad data sampling.

We know that there are one million factors can fried a video card.

We also know that time will tell but the mean while what if it is true? If there is 0.1% chance this is true, it might help someone from frying their GF4. Also, no matter how silly it sounds to you, I feel that 8RDA+ owners should still give the chance let their opinion to be heard.

It is all about customer relation. As long as there is no additional cost involved to make a customer happy, many companies will say things and do to make their customer happy without go over the line of lying. Customer relation is never about who is right and who is wrong. It is all about making the customer happy about the brand and the product at minimal cost. If today we know Epox noticed this matter and it makes us happy, let it be.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 07:21 PM
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Daniel, I do understand what you are saying but 8RDA+ is very recently released.
I think I was the first one in Sweden that got it because I ordered it from UK.
It came to Sweden a couple of day´s ago.
How many have had this problem in this forum?
How many in this forum uses 8RDA+?
Do you think every that own´s 8RDA+ visit this forum?

Do you think that I didn´t though once and twice before posting this thread?

My gfx has been running stock speed all the time, pushed it a coupel of times when benching 3DMark...that´s all.

Ok, you can say I made a mistake.
You can also say all the others did tot but speaking for myself, I know I didn´t.

I also bet that in a while this thread will be dead as I would be very surprized if this would continue.

The question remains, if EPoX or the gfx manufacturers do find out there really is a problem, will they admit it?
My guess is that we will never know for sure.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 07:22 PM
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Daniel, I agree with most of what you said.

This problem will go away in in the near future, as more boards
are produced with the newer bios and whatever might have been
the problem, if there ever was a problem to begin with.
One thing for sure, as anybody who deal with computers knows,
that whatever it was, might have been, no company is going to
say, "Hey it are problem". Think if this problem was more wide
spread, no company going to shell out money to replace all the video cards, especially Epox, for a card that cost 3 times what their motherboard does.
Yeah my cards fried, it work great before till I got this board, is
it Epox fault, who knows, they are a suspect, just as much as user error is. So I don't think its silly to think, "maybe it could be
this new motherboard".
I think Caper got the right attitude, my boards fried, it could have been a number of things, can't pin it down, time to move on.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 07:27 PM
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Just to get my situation a bit better in Perspective.

I have been a Computer Consultant for as long as I can remember.
I have a mate who has been assembly computers for years. I purchase all the components for both of us as we get better buying power. But are two different Companies.
I just supplied him 2 Epox 8RDA+ mb's & brought 1 for myself.
He was upgrading from 2 x Epox 8k3a MBs with 2 Leadtek Geforce 4600 Cards which have been use in a few other boards.
Here is how he installed the new board.

He setup his new System with Epox 8RDA+ MB & Leadtek Card 1 & it didn't post. Checked all cabling etc & no go booting.
Called me up to see if I could shed some light for him.
While I was on the phone:
He put in a PCI Video card & it booted.
Had new bios aready so flashed bios to the latest 12/10/02.
Went through bios settings & all seemed ok.
So he thought he might try Leadtek Card 2 this time, it did Not boot.
Put in a Geforce2 MX64 & it booted.
Thought the 8RDA+ might be incompatible with the Leadteks & won't post eith them.

So put the leadtek1 back in the original computer 2 which he had not started to upgrade yet. (was going to do 1 at a time)
Now the Epox 8ka3 MB would not boot.
Placed leadtek2 card in Epox 8ka3 & no boot either.
(I won't repeat what he said to me about this or I will be banned!)

Looks like both Cards are damaged.

You can not tell me this is coinicidence as others have had this happen on this forum.

Epox check into this quick & issue a warning if a compatiabilty problem exists with certain cards.

Not sure if it could possibly be the Purple AGP socket. Something like a different brand Epox might be using for this board.
Mabey certain cards are not lining up right & shorting on pins?
Don't know, but there is a problem here.
I myself have not tried this board yet, but have been very happy with Epox boards in the past.

Also other M/B's have been out for alot longer & I have never seen or heard of a problem like this before.
Honestly Daniel I very much doubt you have heard of something like this before especially as it has happened to experienced Computer installers.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 07:43 PM
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If today only enthusiasts are complaining that their GF4 card got fried I would probably pointing fingers at them due to they probably OC and also they probably didn't take the right step of assembling the parts together. However, today we have several experienced users and some of them has been doing this as their job for many years, they took all possible correct procedures installing it and yet their GF4 video card got fried. Moreover, there are people who read this thread, already noticed that this issue and taking all the necessary steps to prevent it from happening, yet their video card still fried.

Just like kuzma and Caper said, time will tell but time will also kill this thread. If posting here and let them vent out their dispointment makes them happy, let it be. If there is no more reporting about fried GF4, this thread will die on its own. Now we know it does not kill CPU because it only happened to stinger and bad mounting hole positions only happened to CoolByWater and Toasted Comp (well, not many user use the 4 mounting holes. CBW received his new 8RDA+ and now his waterblock lines up perfect to the center of the cpu die)
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 08:13 PM
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If there's only one issue caused by a hardware problem - doesn't matter what sort of problem, maybe there's indeed a mechanical problem - the collected informations here would probably help out of some further issues and saves the life of some expensive hardware!

It isn't the sense of this thread to blame Epox, possibly we get a simple solution by this common brainstorming!
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 08:29 PM
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I too are only posting this as I saw others were having a similar problem. Otherwise I might have put it down to just unlucky for us.
We always buy in the latest boards ourselves to test first to make sure our customers get excellent products.
We are very happy with Epox in quality & support. (No. 1)
But if there is a problem with a certain product we want to get to the bottom of this.
As it stands we will hold off for the month to see how this progresses before we sell a 8RDA+ to our customers.

I'm sure if a problem exists you can bet Epox would be the fastest MB company out there to remedy this.

We expect problems with all new releases of all Computer Hardware.
If it was all too easy with computers I would be out of a job!
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Caper
Who knows why this has happend 7 users?
Specific mobo batch, combination of hard ware,first Bios release or even pure clumsyness by the users.
No matter what, I would like to see some action from EPoX.
I have given EPoX this url, and they are gona find out how this happends.
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Old 14th December, 2002, 10:07 PM
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One question that I find curious is how come only GF4 cards get smoked? isnt that wierd by itself?
There seems to be a lot of people using ATI cards to and maby other cards too...
I can only tell u that I know I put in the card right dubble checking that it was seated 3 times with the snap thingy and all.
And I have put together computers for a long time (7 years) both for myself and at work so I dont qualify as a n00b either.
Besides I wonder how many people know of this forum I found it by chance. As some here have stated the board has only been out for a week at least here in sweden...
If it was the BIOS that was faulty the problem will go away as soon as they upgrade it with the shipping of boards. If not then there will be more smoked GF4s...
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soldier2000


I have given EPoX this url, and they are gona find out how this happends.
That sounds good.

Still a bit puzzled by the fact that no EPoX employee has collected hardware configurations from those who smoked their cards.

But that might come.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 14th December, 2002, 11:16 PM
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If it was the board, EPOX have something like product liability and Epox must pay for the smoked GF4, maybe alone for this reason they won't acknowledge this issues as a product error!

That's the distorted at this situation, is Epox respectably enough to admit a possible error, then they must react and possibly pay! Or they conceal possible problems and accept thereby defective hardware of some customers? Or no comprehensible error is present, then Epox must say this with all clarity!

I can't introduce myself Epox would be dubious! I don't want to imagine this ... I won't imagine this ...
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 15th December, 2002, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EluSiOn


Daniel,

We know that using this thread collecting data is very bad data sampling.

We know that there are one million factors can fried a video card.

We also know that time will tell but the mean while what if it is true? If there is 0.1% chance this is true, it might help someone from frying their GF4. Also, no matter how silly it sounds to you, I feel that 8RDA+ owners should still give the chance let their opinion to be heard.

It is all about customer relation. As long as there is no additional cost involved to make a customer happy, many companies will say things and do to make their customer happy without go over the line of lying. Customer relation is never about who is right and who is wrong. It is all about making the customer happy about the brand and the product at minimal cost. If today we know Epox noticed this matter and it makes us happy, let it be.
If I did not agree completely that you have that right to be heard your post would have been moved.

However there is a flip side to your proposition that even if 0.1% are fried etc. In the first place at that level of fryage is VERY unlikely we would ever know the true cause.

In the second how many will avoid this board and buy another, perhaps lessor board?

"We also know that time will tell but the mean while what if it is true?"

Ah, Guilty until proven innocent?

What if my wife cheats on me, should I doubt her until I know for sure? Should I ignore all the past good and kind treatment of me until I know for sure?

Or should I believe her past kindness until I know for sure? and in that way do her no injustice.

As to letting it be... It's a matter of personal justice for me.

That is a matter of trying to hear what you are saying. That you feel a thing needs to be looked into. and balancing it with the inherent possible harm, through no fault of your own, done to EPoX and I agree the question should at lest be asked if your reason asks you to pursue it..

Once asked how ever, to do justice, if no proof be found, we should then come out, each of us, when we each feel sufficient time has passed to have revealed the truth, and say "We looked into this, we tried to ascertain what is true. What we found is we could find no direct link between dying cards and this motherboard."

This should, if Justice be done, be posted where ever we announced our intention to investigate as best we could with our limited resources.

For the investigation itself cast doubt upon the motherboard.

Please don't feel I'm trying to hold your feet to the coals on this. You had every right to ask, every right to try and find out. Had you uncovered something you'd have done EPoX and her customers a great service. I laud your efforts.

I have no doubt that once you have obtained inner certainty as to what the case IS, you will do the right thing.

Peace ":O}
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 15th December, 2002, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Caper
Daniel, I do understand what you are saying but 8RDA+ is very recently released.
I think I was the first one in Sweden that got it because I ordered it from UK.
It came to Sweden a couple of day´s ago.
How many have had this problem in this forum?
How many in this forum uses 8RDA+?
Do you think every that own´s 8RDA+ visit this forum?

Do you think that I didn´t though once and twice before posting this thread?

My gfx has been running stock speed all the time, pushed it a coupel of times when benching 3DMark...that´s all.

Ok, you can say I made a mistake.
You can also say all the others did tot but speaking for myself, I know I didn´t.

I also bet that in a while this thread will be dead as I would be very surprized if this would continue.

The question remains, if EPoX or the gfx manufacturers do find out there really is a problem, will they admit it?
My guess is that we will never know for sure.
I'm sure you weighed the consequences of your actions. Please understand, this is not a condemnation of anyone. I do not have cause to doubt you competence nor your sincerity.

How ever as has been made clear before this really isn't the Topic to go into what EPoX as a corp. would do if.... Especially as you deny them the benefit of the doubt. This even as both companies have excellent reputations when it comes to RMAs.

I permit it only because I I know that EPoX wishes you to know you are being heard. I mention it to serve the law in it's breach.

I believe you are mistaken. I believe that statically it is highly unlikely this type of disastrous mistake would be made. Given it's unlikelyness I would have contented myself to notify EPoX and Nvida in private and watched to see if unusually high numbers of burnage appeared.

I think you jumped the gun.

I also believe that this is something honest and honorable men may disagree about.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 15th December, 2002, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stanley Jobson
If it was the board, EPOX have something like product liability and Epox must pay for the smoked GF4, maybe alone for this reason they won't acknowledge this issues as a product error!

That's the distorted at this situation, is Epox respectably enough to admit a possible error, then they must react and possibly pay! Or they conceal possible problems and accept thereby defective hardware of some customers? Or no comprehensible error is present, then Epox must say this with all clarity!

I can't introduce myself Epox would be dubious! I don't want to imagine this ... I won't imagine this ...
Oh that is great...
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Old 15th December, 2002, 02:33 AM
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Daniel ~ Ok let's take a walk together and see what we might find.

rocky500 Just to get my situation a bit better in Perspective.

I have been a Computer Consultant for as long as I can remember.
I have a mate who has been assembly computers for years. I purchase all the components for both of us as we get better buying power. But are two different Companies.
I just supplied him 2 Epox 8RDA+ mb's & brought 1 for myself.
He was upgrading from 2 x Epox 8k3a MBs with 2 Leadtek Geforce 4600 Cards which have been use in a few other boards.
Here is how he installed the new board.

Daniel ~ Here is how you believe he did with two USED cards on the bases of what he's told you, his supplier.

rocky500 He setup his new System with Epox 8RDA+ MB & Leadtek Card 1 & it didn't post. Checked all cabling etc & no go booting.
Called me up to see if I could shed some light for him.
While I was on the phone:

Daniel ~ While he was on the phone, talking to you, .... yes...


rocky500 He put in a PCI Video card & it booted.
Had new bios aready so flashed bios to the latest 12/10/02.
Went through bios settings & all seemed ok.
So he thought he might try Leadtek Card 2 this time, it did Not boot.
Put in a Geforce2 MX64 & it booted.
Thought the 8RDA+ might be incompatible with the Leadteks & won't post eith them.

So put the leadtek1 back in the original computer 2 which he had not started to upgrade yet. (was going to do 1 at a time)
Now the Epox 8ka3 MB would not boot.
Placed leadtek2 card in Epox 8ka3 & no boot either.
(I won't repeat what he said to me about this or I will be banned!)

Looks like both Cards are damaged.

You can not tell me this is coinicidence as others have had this happen on this forum.

Daniel ~I can't tell you anything I wasn't there. There were two used Cards being installed into a new MB with a new chip set. You mention they are Leadtech. Leadtech makes a good card have had three of them, one fried, I cried, don't know why it died! (sorry).

You see I can tell you it very well might be a coincidence. All the elements are present to create a very misleading appearance. He was using a new and unknown chip set, he was using used cards, he was on the phone to you and perhaps distracted. He was miffed abut the first card.

Now nothing I have mentioned may be true. Yet given the distribution rate sooner or later someone is going to fry two cards, I've mentioned my two mother boards, at lest one of which WAS new.

Now if we were seeing a lot of cards frying and we are not, then the weight of the evidence would point to something wrong. Given that we are not seeing this the weight of the evidence points to, however unlikely, it seems, a coincidence. That's the confusing aspect of a really remarkable coincidence. Humans are in fact hard wired to make connections in reality when in fact none exists. It's our nature to do so. Then again he may have gotten a bad board. But the evidence does not point to this. The board still works, it's the cards that are fried.

rocky500 Epox check into this quick & issue a warning if a compatiabilty problem exists with certain cards.

Daniel ~ Good plan. I would have as I say else where done it differently, but that doesn't make you wrong for the way you went about it.

I'm not being stubon here, nor do I think you are. "Something" happened! But what that something was we may never know.
rocky500 Not sure if it could possibly be the Purple AGP socket. Something like a different brand Epox might be using for this board.
Mabey certain cards are not lining up right & shorting on pins?
Don't know, but there is a problem here.
I myself have not tried this board yet, but have been very happy with Epox boards in the past.

Also other M/B's have been out for alot longer & I have never seen or heard of a problem like this before.
Honestly Daniel I very much doubt you have heard of something like this before especially as it has happened to experienced Computer installers.

Daniel ~ No I can't recall a motherboard ever frying cards, but that speaks as much to my point of view as it does yours. Time will show us each an outcome. We ill each interpret that out come as best we can. We may well both be wrong, we may well both be right. Most likely neither of us will ever know.

I just feel that this being the Case EPoX deserves the benefit of the doubt, more so as each day passes.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 15th December, 2002, 02:44 AM
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Having looked back over this thread, I regrettably must move it to Our "AMD Motherboard" Topic, I'm sure you will understand.
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Old 15th December, 2002, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stanley Jobson
Yepp, the A250TD is a Ti4400 ... and now there's running the 2C10 BIOS!!!

My advice so far: Boot the first time with an old gfx-card and flash the BIOS with the newest one. After this was done put in your GF4!!! Safety first!
Given your experence, I think you offer sage advice, why run any risk, however remote, that Prudence can avoid!
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Old 15th December, 2002, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel ~
Having looked back over this thread, I regrettably must move it to Our "AMD Motherboard" Topic, I'm sure you will understand.
No, I don´t understand.
But then again, I don´t need to.
You run the forum
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