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AMD Motherboards & CPUs Questions or comments on AMD products?


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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 9th March, 2003, 12:38 PM
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Looks like I might have to unlock the CPU to really get anywhere.

I did some FSB-raising last night.... the surprising result is that the higher I raised my FSB (to the point where I quit), the WORSE my HDTech disk transfer and 3dMark03 scores got.

I kept my multiplier at auto, which should mean the 1800+ locked at 11.5 because I have not unlocked this chip yet.

At FSB 138, the BIOS showed the chip as a 1900+. At FSB 143, the bios showed the chip as a 2000+. Memory settings at 5,2,2,2 and AGB locked at 66MHz.

Look at the results below, categorized by how I set my memory settings and FSB:


Settings & FSB 3dMark03
Optimal, FSB133 1609
Aggressive, FSB133 1623
Expert, FSB138 1592
Expect, FSB143 1218!

The higher I cranked my FSB, the SLOWER my system became! Maybe the memory settings were cranked down too tightly?

This also resulted to a very small degree in slower burst read and sustained read HDTach tests of my 15k RPM U160 SCSI drive, which is one of the main things I'm trying to improve with the faster FSB. The SCSI drive performs MUCH better in my P4 Dell system, partially due (I think) to the 400MHz FSB capability of that system.
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Old 9th March, 2003, 09:16 PM
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YOu should have started a new thread for this but I would guess you are not running in synchronous mode with memory speed = FSB speed. This is usually signified by 100% but it depends on who manufacturered your nforce2 board.

Look here:
http://www.doomiii.pwp.blueyonder.co...AdvChipset.jpg
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10th March, 2003, 10:07 PM
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Question Need confirmation

Hi,

Am currently running 2 sticks of HyperX 3500 Dual-Channel (slot 1 and 2) in my 8rda+ - I want to buy 1 more stick of HyperX 3500 but would it better to get a 512mb over a 256mb or this is not gonna make a big difference (besides price of course) in terms of performance and OC'ability? I don't need 1 GB - I just wanted to add another 256mb originally

Would appreciate some input...

I guess if I had a 256mb, then only 512mb will be run in 128bit mode and the other 256 in 64 bits - at least, it should not get worse than only running 2x256 DC...no?

Am running @ 200fsb 5-2-2-2 at the moment... with those 2 sticks.
Thanks,

--fibo
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Old 10th March, 2003, 11:50 PM
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It cant make that much difference running 256Mb out of dual channel but I am thinking along the same lines. I have 2 * 256Mb pc3200 twinmos w\winbond and WTB a single 512Mb pc3700 twinmos since the pc3200 512Mb twinmos is known to not overclock aswell as the 256Mb I already have. I could save myself £60 if I got the 256Mb twinmos but this way I have the option of testing which configuration runs a higher FSB (in theory), with the possiblity of selling the 256Mb and getting another pc3700 (which thinking about it is kinda expensive :/).
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Old 18th March, 2003, 11:53 PM
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...

Since I am new at this please be cool

I am building a new pc around the 8rda+ and currently have only stick of XMS 3500 (512). How much of a boost might I gain if I buy one more to take advantage of dual-ddr as it relates to real world games and inpact if any on Oc'ing my Xp2400+?

THANKS
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Old 19th March, 2003, 01:38 AM
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No offense to anyone, BUT does anyone read their manuals anymore? I've learned more (and shared that knowledge) from reading every manual to every motherboard I've owned then in many hours of searching and posting in forums.

The information in manuals is usually much more accruate then someone typing away at 3:00AM, and I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people mix up DIMM's especially on 8RDA's, because their numbered backwards from the usual incremental system on Socket-A boards working from CPU to right, where DIMM/Slot-1 is nearest the CPU.

 On the 8RDA, however; DIMM-2 is nearest the CPU, and while other boards usually go in increments from lowest to highest, with the 8RDA it's DIMM-2, DIMM-3, then DIMM-1 seperated by a few centimeters. All you have to do is read the manual, or remember populating the far right from the CPU DIMM-1, is essential for 128-bit mode, DIMM-1 being the furthest from the CPU, (DIMMs 3,2 = Bank-1) by a gap DIMM-1 = Bank-0.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 19th March, 2003, 03:44 AM
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Re: ...

Quote:
Originally posted by TANKORR
Since I am new at this please be cool

I am building a new pc around the 8rda+ and currently have only stick of XMS 3500 (512). How much of a boost might I gain if I buy one more to take advantage of dual-ddr as it relates to real world games and inpact if any on Oc'ing my Xp2400+?

THANKS
The benifits of utilizing Dual DDR or Twinbank are enormous, the gist of the nForce2 it's bandwidth potential. BUT you must populate at least two of the three DIMM's in order to utilize both memory Banks (hence the original term Twinbank). Your not just effectively doubling your memory bandwidth (from 64-bit to 128-bit), your also employing nForce2's Streamthru technology, similiar to AMD's Hypertransport. Streamthru, which basically claims the datatransfer process will occur in "real-time" due to the way in which the 128-bit bus is "preprocessed", hence the term DASP (Dynamic Adaptive Speculative Preprocessor). DASP is an extremely sophisticated memory buff er/cache in the NB (North Bridge) mainboard chipset, which not only stores data simliar to a cache (or buffer) on a CPU but reduces latency by allowing each memory controller to perform a specific function with do delay, because one can preprocess while the other Reads, cutting latency in half (in theory). The DASP isn't a new idea, but it's certainly rervolutionary to mainboard chipsets, in fact it's similiar to the cache found on every CPU, the DASP stores the memory instrcutions in a buffer just slower then the CPU's cache, but much faster then RAM.

Although the default bandwidth of the most recent AMD Athlon is still limited to 2.7GB/s, and the overall bandwidth potential of the nForce2 is 6.4GB/s, if you overclock your processor to 200FSB clock speed, you'll be exploiting it's full potential, and that's where nVidia's nForce2 becomes an overclocker's dream! Because the chipset allows the overclocking of several buses indepednent of each other via the AGP's adjustable 50MHz to 98MHz spectrum, the Memory spectrum from below 100% or Synch to 200%, and the FSB clock's adjutable to 250MHz (which can only be attained via the VDD mod, increasing voltage to the NB). With the PCI locked at 33Mhz, the possibilities are greater then with any other Socket-A chipset to date. Synchronous overclocking produces the best results overall, however;  there's still a design implication AMD needs to resolve. Their 333FSB CPU's have difficulty reaching 200FSB clock speed's, and only through the cutting of the L12 (which reverts the processor back to 133 or 266FSB) has this obstacle been circumvented NOT ameliorated, as it's an ad-hoc fix.

So go ahead and get yourself another stick of DDR, and make sure it's as close to the one have you already have, as possible. Meaning it must be the same manufacturer,  latency, speed, and if possible stepping. 
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Last edited by Liquid3D; 19th March, 2003 at 08:15 AM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 19th March, 2003, 05:40 AM
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!

TY for the great reply! - After reading it I did a lil searching and found additional information @ [H]ocp and Anandtech.

As for the memory when it arrives can you provide me any pointers as to how to know the stepping...

FYI both are CMX512-3500C2PT
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 19th March, 2003, 08:35 AM
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I'll (just as any of the members here) will go out of the way to help you out, if your really interested in learning. I don't claim to know everything, but I learn just as much at times in helping people, as I do from asking for help. The trick is to take the time to do research.

In so far as stepping is concerned, it's basically a "manufacturers code" printed on the memory chips, (or processors) which can only be accessed by removing the Heatspreaders (in the case of memory, and I wouldn't advise this as it voids the warranty). Although it's possible to do it very carefully, but if you've never done it before it's better to leave well enough alone. The stepping indicates a certain "binning process" which usually determines the tolerances, and limits of that specific batch (or Bin) of chips. Certain stepping's are the most coveted information in the industry today amoung end-users, but also the most elusive. I've never seen a memory manufacturer sell memory chips/sticks based on advertising their stepping, but if you look through Newegg.com's AMD CPU selections, you'll notice many of the lower speed TBred-B's and even Palamino's have their "steppings" printed after the CPUID in order to sell more CPU's, as certain steppings are sought after by overclockers. When a reseller expends the extra cost to advertise a processor's stepping, it's because it runs at considerably higher speeds then the manufacturer's claimed default. Every few years you'll find a CPU stepping capable of the fabled "double-overclock". That is, twice it's default speed. This is rare, but it does happen, albeit with the assistance of LN2 (Liquid Nitrogen) cooling. Anyway, as long as the memory your getting isn't manufactured month's apart from the first, and you make sure your either getting it from the same reseller, or at minimum the same speed, latency, size, and model number, you should be OK. As the memory your using is a quality brand, they keep their tolerances pretty uniform.


Here's few memory Guides;

http://www.kingston.com/tools/umg/umg03.asp

http://www.mods4me.com/reviews.php?o...tent&id=17

http://www5.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/memory_guide/
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Last edited by Liquid3D; 19th March, 2003 at 09:32 AM.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 19th March, 2003, 06:25 PM
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I have a comparison of using 2 * 256Mb in the two close set DIMMs and using 2 *256Mb DIMM populating the farthest DIMM from the CPU. You can find a link to it on my system specs page. It was done @ 200Mhz. Its not all that great a difference as it happens, but there is an improvement.
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Old 27th March, 2003, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dragonfly
thanks... I think i'll stick to whatever i have now... cause downtime means bad bad bad.... anyways, thanks for everything...

how is it possible to reach 3-2-2-2? need the best rams around?



regards
Updates to this... my friend got back his board from the warranty process... because we are both sharing the same type of processor ( mine a bit better - which could go from 1700++ to 2600++ without any problem ) same type of motherboard and RAM, he could use activate the dual ddr channel running at 200MHz ( 400DDR ) without any problem... so it would seems that I board is faulty and the warranty personel promised to change a new board for me. I'm still waiting for the board to get back to me... Will update when i get the board back...
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 29th March, 2003, 09:27 AM
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fibonaccov

In the tests I did, 3 *256mb sticks dual channel gave the same performance as 2*256mb sticks. I assume the tests did not require more than 512mb mem in total.

All you wanted to know about 8RDA memory settings?
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Old 31st March, 2003, 02:31 PM
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"hehe my pc run stable at DUAL ddr 175, 2.02Ghz, 1.875 volt!!!!!!!!!!!!HOTHOTHOT- 5-2-2-2.5 ( 256MB Of 400DDR on Slot 1 and Slot 2) "

this is what my friend's system is running at...

Now the question is that, if he were to get another piece of 512MB of 400DDR, making it Slot 1 = 512MB and slot 2 256MB and slot 3 256MB making Channel 1 and Channel 2 both 512MB = Total system 1Giga... would this enhance the system?
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Old 31st March, 2003, 03:47 PM
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Before doing that - try this:

http://www.warp2search.net/article.php?sid=11377

It has helped me to decide that I don't need or want extra memory. That is ofcourse if you/he runs winXP sp1.
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Old 31st March, 2003, 10:11 PM
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BTW I belive the exact nature of stepping, determines where on the wafer, the chip cut from?
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Old 31st March, 2003, 11:49 PM
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You are correct:

http://lowyat.isentral.com/guides/athlonxp/
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 12th July, 2003, 08:30 PM
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Is it better to have 1 stick of 1024 ddr 3200 or two sticks of 512, which will perform better? (don't mind the price)
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Old 12th July, 2003, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelj43
Is it better to have 1 stick of 1024 ddr 3200 or two sticks of 512, which will perform better? (don't mind the price)
Well whereever possible you want to take advantage of Dual DDR motherboards? Albeit Sringdale, Canterwood, granite Bay, nForce, nForce2, KT600, these are current boards. 6.4GB/s bandwidth is possible from most of these chipsets.

And therefore it would be in your best intertest to utilize two matching sticks, or at least buy them together (in this way their most likely close to each other in the manufacture process). Lets say your looking to put 1GB of memory (I beleive this to be the optimal amount, given current Operating Systems) into your rig. It's better to buy 4x256MB sticks then 2x512MB sticks. First the 512MB pull more current from a single DIMM, and their having double sided IC's causes them to generate more heat. With the IC's in cych close proximity, this heat is even harder to dissipate, and often slows the memory's performnace.

A 256MB module draws less current to overclock, and four of them while they may "tax" the memory controller, and board current, they do so in more stable, steadfast increments. The memory runs faster, because each 256MB modules has it's own isolated (somewhat) source of current, and the chips being staggared, and dispersed over double the PCB area dissipate heat faster. They run cooler then again due to this placement. I also hjave a theory, with the rows and clumns distributed among more physical pathways, this also speeds data in parallel distributive effect. Running less info on it's own pathway, alleviates congestion. The memory controller, is utilized to it's best capacity, where more data is run in parallel to one another. In this model (mutiple bottlenecking, perhaps even back-propagation are eliminated.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 13th July, 2003, 10:56 PM
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Acording to Abit NF7-S 2.0`s manual, you cant run 3 dimms at the same time at 200Mhz (DDR400).

Well I got FULLY STABLE 3 Kingston Valueram KVR333X64C25/512 runing SYNC with FSB @ 200Mhz with CPU Interface and PCI Enhaced enabled at timmings 3-4-4-8 and 2.8v

Nice stuff huh?
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Old 5th August, 2003, 02:31 PM
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1 mem slot = 64bit (single channel)
mem slots 2 & 3 = 64bit (single channel)
mem slots 1 & 2 = 128bit (dual channel)
mem slots 1 & 3 = 128bit (dual channel)
all 3 mem slots = 128bit (dual channel) will not run in 64bit(single channel) mode
thats on the 8RDA+
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