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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 03:43 AM
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As it was for me. I had no I dea the Intel was so close in their developement scheme. The other articles had a timetable of more like 1010 for introduction of the same materials that I found tonight, unless Intel is just blowing smoke (remember cold fusion...lol).
Tim
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 03:52 AM
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Cold fusion...sigh... I'm still hurting from it's failure to appear! ":O}
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMa2969
And Daniel, if you have a problem with me, ban me, but don't flaut anyones degree. I respect degree's, but don't live by them as having been a construction project superintendant and working with many Civil Engineers I know the degree is worth what the person is. This is said with no disrespect intended, but if you want to ban me for my feelings on this matter, GO FOR IT!!!!!
Daniel wasn't flauting anyones degree.

Daniel is not that kind of person to ban people. Daniel is one of the best Mods I have ever seen in my life.

gizmo is very nice too.

oh btw, I enjoyed reading the ariticle you posted here for reference. Good read.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 03:55 AM
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Yeah, that was heartbreaking to us all. Although an even more disturbing moment for me was back in the '70's when they invented the 100 MPG carburator and sold it to (Exxon was it?). Ahh, the life we lead as a race.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 04:05 AM
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Seems were doing a lot of cross posting! Always seems to work out when we take care to preserve our good intentions":O}

Sorry about you current difficulties. You haven't done one thing in my view that comes close to being grounds for banning. We are always glad to see knowledgeable people coming into the forums. I hope you'll find a bit of solace here, many of us are among the walking wounded.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 04:05 AM
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I have the utmost respect for anyone and everyone here, that is why I continue to come back and ask opinions and advice. I made my statement, I stand by it. Thank you for the appreciation of the article I turned up. I find Gizmo to be very knowledgeable (and I am sure the one with the degree, electrical science is it Gizmo?). Although that guess could be wrong. That, or rather what i said, was not a cheap shot at anyone, it was a statement of fact and not directed at anyone on these boards that I can think of. This has gotten out of hand for now, and I would rather drop the subject if that is agreeable with everyone. I will keep this thread in my inbox and post as soon as I have that article. My question still stands however, to the person or persons that can give me the best advice on burning in an AMD 2500XP-M "Barton" please let me know as it is coming Friday and I am eager to see just what that baby can do.
Tim
BTW, haven't decided on whether to burn it in on this AN7 or the new NFII Ultra Infinity, any advice on that would be welcome, and as far as i can tell, this thread has gone WAYYYYYY off topic of the original Barton Vs. T'Bred-B....LOL
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 04:10 AM
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Consider this, as I do, a brief moment of confusion before clarity could find us and set things to right.":O}
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 08:05 AM
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you all might wanna do some research into the "cell" processor technology..i believe ti is the direct stuff that JMA was talking about. i read about it in time a while back, when the xbox first came out and they were talking playstation3. i'm sure you will find reference to the deal sony was negoitiating to have motorola make the proc's for the PS3 with the newfound technology.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMa2969
I find Gizmo to be very knowledgeable (and I am sure the one with the degree, electrical science is it Gizmo?). Although that guess could be wrong.
It would be. All I have is a high-school diploma, various technical courses, not quite a semester of college, and a lifetime of experience. I have been an electronics tech, a practicing electrical engineer, and now I am a software engineer.
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Old 29th April, 2004, 05:28 PM
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Well, sorry Gizmo. You speak as a practicing electrical engineer. I have about the same level of education (well, a little more education and a lot less life experience in the feild of the electrical sciences, which pretty much makes me and electrical idiot except for the construction and civil end of which I have a lifetime of exposure and what amounts to an associates that I refuse to take [1 more semester and I can tack an associates in Engineering and I have guaranteed acceptance to Clarkson University with my BA after one year instead of two, save me around 33,000]). However, I restate my respect for those of this forum and the knowledge I can gain. Have a good one all;
Tim
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
The one downfall of cellphones is that they are almost @ the max of data that they can send @ the frequency they are @. Radio waves DO NOT hold alot of info.
You're talking about the Shannon limit for a bandwidth limited channel, right? Well, a GSM (cellphone) channel has a bandwidth of 200Khz. I don't have details on the worst case SNR, but GSM doesn't bring the channel anywhere near the maximum possible bandwidth. Radio waves can be used to hold significant amounts of information, depending on the SNR available on the channel. For a GSM mobile, each channel provides 8 time slots, so the overall data transmission rate for a GSM channel is about 270KBit/sec. CDMA is a little different, as all devices talk simultaniously on the same frequency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMa2969
As I am sure most of us know, a signal sent in digital at 2.4 Ghz can pass much more data than an analogue signal sent in the Mhz range
Excuse me being a little confused here. Radio waves are analog by nature, so it's a bit hard to send a radio wave digitally I'm presuming you meant that by using digital encoding techniques we can make better use of the analog channel's bandwidth.

Digital AM radio is a great example - it makes much better use of the analog channel that's present. Rather than generating the traditional two sidebands, a single sideband carrier robustly encoded with compression can provide a good deal of information in a fairly narrow channel (9KHz typically). That's enough to provide near FM quality from a channel that's far narrower.

Ultra WideBand looks good on paper, but is suffering from FCC considering it to being akin to 'spark gap' transmissions, hence current implementation are less than 'Ultra' wideband. That rather limits data throughput, but UWB could provide some really good stuff. It's always good to see military research finding other applications.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 06:34 PM
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OK! OK! At lest one of which is a wanna-be Engineer! LOL

The things you only find out when you hip deep in it!!
To a high school drop-out, everyone looks like an Engineer!":O}
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMa2969
Well, sorry Gizmo. You speak as a practicing electrical engineer.
NP. Just goes to prove the point that, while a college degree is nice, the ability to think and a passion for what you do are far more important. Not dissing the people who have the degrees; I want to eventually go back to college and get mine. But having an education doesn't automatically equate with intelligence or excellence.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 29th April, 2004, 07:17 PM
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[QUOTE=Áedán]You're talking about the Shannon limit for a bandwidth limited channel, right? Well, a GSM (cellphone) channel has a bandwidth of 200Khz. I don't have details on the worst case SNR, but GSM doesn't bring the channel anywhere near the maximum possible bandwidth. Radio waves can be used to hold significant amounts of information, depending on the SNR available on the channel. For a GSM mobile, each channel provides 8 time slots, so the overall data transmission rate for a GSM channel is about 270KBit/sec. CDMA is a little different, as all devices talk simultaniously on the same frequency.QUOTE]
actually, most WAP based applications are limited to what they can do with a cellphone, because of the high content stream. I was more refering to the actual data sent over time(bandwidth) of cellphone in comparison to highspeed internet. Although microsoft's command libray is getting easier and easier to deploy wirelessly, all WAP applications are currently limited by a cellphone connection. 200k to the 4.0 gig of cable is a big difference. not the only thing holding wireless stuff back is the encryption to analogue from digital and back
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Old 29th April, 2004, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
actually, most WAP based applications are limited to what they can do with a cellphone, because of the high content stream. I was more refering to the actual data sent over time(bandwidth) of cellphone in comparison to highspeed internet. Although microsoft's command libray is getting easier and easier to deploy wirelessly, all WAP applications are currently limited by a cellphone connection. 200k to the 4.0 gig of cable is a big difference. not the only thing holding wireless stuff back is the encryption to analogue from digital and back
I'm not sure that's really a valid comparison to be honest. A narrow 200KHz channel verses what? The frequency limit of a cable? Ok. Lets even that up a bit. How about the frequency limit of air vs the frequency limit of a cable - that's a bit more level.

Are you rolling out WAP1 applications? From what you're saying it sounds like you're stuck with WAP1 on GSM or CDMA. Most WAP1 devices have very little in the way of processor power spare, so expecting any kind of speed when they're trying to handle WML is perhaps rather optimistic.
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Old 29th April, 2004, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
I'm not sure that's really a valid comparison to be honest. A narrow 200KHz channel verses what? The frequency limit of a cable? Ok. Lets even that up a bit. How about the frequency limit of air vs the frequency limit of a cable - that's a bit more level.

Are you rolling out WAP1 applications? From what you're saying it sounds like you're stuck with WAP1 on GSM or CDMA. Most WAP1 devices have very little in the way of processor power spare, so expecting any kind of speed when they're trying to handle WML is perhaps rather optimistic.
it's not even the processor power that's a prob, it's streaming things like text and webpages on a cellhpone is only limited by the bandwidth of the carrier signal...i have an ngage that has decent power and i still can't stream a 32k stream to it with out losing quality.32k!
anyweays, all i was trying to say was that it is not the compression techniques that are the limiting factor, because the size of the packets is limited by the bandwidth. on cable you can send 300k packets with some ease, but you cannot over an analogue signal
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Old 29th April, 2004, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
it's not even the processor power that's a prob, it's streaming things like text and webpages on a cellhpone is only limited by the bandwidth of the carrier signal...i have an ngage that has decent power and i still can't stream a 32k stream to it with out losing quality.32k!
I presume you're running GPRS then. GPRS is more than capable of 32K, unless your operator has restricted the number of timeslots available to you, or has subscribed you to a GPRS service with a low QoS. Are you using a TCP stream or a UDP stream? If you're using a TCP stream, you might well be bumping into latency problems with acks (and transparent proxying). Handovers can spike latency, so if you're using an application that's not designed to handle the odd latency characteristics, then you will hit issues like that.
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Old 29th April, 2004, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
the size of the packets is limited by the bandwidth. on cable you can send 300k packets with some ease, but you cannot over an analogue signal
I'm totally lost here - Other than lossy channels, why does size of packet have anything to do with bandwidth. When you say 'Cable' what do you mean? Are you referring to the service provided by a cable internet company or are you referring to a physical bit of wire.

If you're talking about cable internet, then you cannot send a 300K packet. You are limited to 1500bytes per packet including header.
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Old 29th April, 2004, 08:53 PM
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i was referring to the wire, not the service.
besides which , i am merely making examples...
say i want to send a powerpoint presentation to my secretary's phone for her to preview on her way to do my errands...can't do it? why? a phone cannot process the packet size, nor can the signal handle the stream. the whole problem with wireless technology is not the technology itself, but the interference cause dby OTHER technologies around it. now we are getting into the harmonics, and why they are switching to a higher wavelength for transmission...
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Old 29th April, 2004, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever
gizmo is very nice too.
Thanks, whatever! I really appreciate that.

Your check will be in the mail shortly.

(Isn't it amazing what one can accomplish with a little simple bribery? )
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