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Old 9th June, 2004, 05:08 AM
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NF7-S CPU Thermal Diode Mod, Version 2.0

A while back, I posted a thread here about moding the NF7-S mobo so that you could read the temp of the CPU directly from the on-CPU thermal diode. While this mod works pretty well, it has one glaring drawback, which I mentioned in the previous post:

It completely disables the hardware based thermal protection provided by the Attansic ATTP1 OTP controller in the center of the CPU socket. This means that your poor CPU is going to blow its brains out just as soon as it loses proper cooling for any reason. Cooked silicon, anyone?

Well, I've solved that problem.

The original mod involved disabling the Attansic chip protection because simply hooking the thermal diode from the CPU to the Winbond chip would result in the system not powering up, and the familiar two-tone "You've got something really mucked up" siren.

The reason for this is because the Winbond 83627HF Super I/O and hardware monitor chip used by Abit has a separate voltage rail for the analog section of the chip (containing the ADC, amplifiers, analog switch, and voltage reference used by the hardware monitors) which is tied to the system 5v supply rail. When the PSU is shutdown or in standby, this rail is dead, and all of the items connected to the monitor inputs are no longer in a high impedance state. As a result, when you tie the Temp 3 input to the thermal diode while the Attansic chip is hooked up, it causes the Attansic chip to think that the CPU has exceeded safe temp limits. So what is the solution?

Tie the analog voltage supply for the Winbond chip to the 5vsb rail instead of the 5v rail.

***************WARNING!********************
The following instructions involve modifying your board and voiding your warranty! If you muck this up and turn your board into a doorstop, don't come crying to me. I will have no sympathy.
***************YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!*********

As before, we will be tying the CPU thermal diode to the Temp 3 sensor channel of the Winbond chip.

Step 1. Find pin 97 of the Winbond chip. It is the 6th pin from the top left corner of the chip on the top side of the chip, when viewed with the board oriented so that the I/O panel cluster is at the top right. This is the analog voltage input. You will need to carefully lift this pin from the solder pad. BE VERY CAREFUL! These pins are VERY delicate! Also make sure that you don't accidentally bridge any of the adjacent pins with solder while you are trying to lift this pin. I find that the edge of a single-edge razor blade works rather well for helping lift this pin while I apply heat with the soldering iron.

Step 2. Find pin 102 of the Winbond chip. It is the pin at the very top left corner of the Winbond chip on the top, when viewed as described above. Lift this pin just as you did pin 97.

Step 3. Find pin 61 of the Winbond chip. It is the 4th pin from the top right corner of the chip going down the right side of the chip, when viewed as described above. This is the 5vsb input. Run a jumper from pin 61 of the Winbond chip to pin 97. BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL! Soldering on these quad flat packs is a real PITA! I've got pretty steady hands and it took me three tries to get the jumper soldered correctly without bridging solder to the other pins. Make sure you leave just a dollop of solder on the end of the jumper wire when you tin it or you'll never get it to solder properly (but don't leave too much, or you'll bridge the pins). 32 guage jumper wire works pretty well. The jumper wire will need to be about 3.5 cm (1.5") long. Solder to pin 61 first, then pin 97.

Step 4. Find pin 4 of the Attansic ATTP1 OTP controller inside the CPU socket. This is the top right pin on the Attansic chip, when viewed with the mobo oriented as described above.

Step 5. Run a jumper from pin 102 of the Winbond chip to pin 4 of the Attansic chip inside the CPU socket. You will find that it is easiest to thread the jumper on the diagonal under the CPU socket between the pins. Anything else is nearly impossible. The wire will need to be about 8 cm (3") long. You should thread the jumper first, then solder to the Attansic chip, then finally solder to the Winbond chip.

Step 6. Apply a dollop of gel type super glue or some other fastening agent to each of your jumpers to near pin 97 and pin 102 to keep them from flexing too much and breaking the pins off the chip. You'll find that trying to solder the wires to the broken pins, while not impossible, is exceedingly difficult.

That's all there is to it. If you have previously modded your mobo to read the thermal diode, you MAY find that your temps are 1-2 degrees higher than they used to be. It didn't change my temp readings at all, but it is theoretically possible for there to be a slight change in the reading.

Now you can safely read your CPU thermal diode temps without sacrificing your OTP protection. I've personally verified this a few times myself, so I know it works.

Theoretically, this mod should be able to be done on any mobo that uses the Attansic ATTP1 OTP controller and Winbond 83627HF Super I/O chip, although you will have to investigate the temp sensor input assignments to make sure you have a free temp sensor channel (the Winbond only has three). It CAN be done to ALL of the NF7 based mobos, AFAIK, because the base board is the same with different installed options. Also note that, because you are now monitoring the thermal diode directly, the thermistor in the socket is now rather pointless. This connects to channel two of the Winbond chip, which means you can now use channel two (on pin 101) for something else. I'm thinking about wiring in a thermal probe to check my VCore regulator temp, or maybe my North Bridge, or possibly my GPU. The possibilities are endless!
Attached Thumbnails
NF7-S CPU Thermal Diode Mod, Version 2.0-winbond-pin-location-2.jpg   NF7-S CPU Thermal Diode Mod, Version 2.0-attansic-pin-locations-2.jpg   NF7-S CPU Thermal Diode Mod, Version 2.0-socket-wiring-2.jpg  
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Old 13th June, 2004, 12:08 PM
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gizmo : great guide, at last we have our Attansic ATTP1 OTP back

Going to mod this next weekend.

Some question
Restore mobo mod back to default, only lift up Pin 97 & Pin 102 ?
and solder wire on top of Pin 61 & (Pin 4 of the Attansic ATTP1 OTP) ?

How to test OTP ?

10Q x100000

If possible try to make the northbridge temp works
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Old 13th June, 2004, 03:53 PM
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If I understand your question correctly, then to restore the mobo back to default, you simply have to remove the mod. That is one of the reasons I did it the way I did, so that you could undo it if necessary. However, be aware that soldering pin 97 and pin 102 back down is rather tricky because of the fine spacing of the pins. A fine tip soldering iron is definitely a must.

As far as testing the OTP, um, unless you have a CPU you are willing to sacrifice, I don't know of a way to test it. In my case, I actually took a chance with my CPU to try it out. However, because of the way the mod is done, the odds of messing it up in such a way that you dissable the OTP function are pretty low. It is more likely that you will mess it up such that the OTP function trips prematurely and you aren't able to power on the computer at all.

As for the northbridge, does it have a thermal diode? I didn't think it did. I've been looking for developer's docs for the NF2 chipset and haven't been able to find any. I'm guessing I need to sign an NDA with NVidia to get them.
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Old 13th June, 2004, 04:42 PM
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Sorry about this. I use to type in short sentence.
Quote:
Some question
Restore mobo mod back to default, only lift up Pin 97 & Pin 102 ?
and solder wire on top of Pin 61 & (Pin 4 of the Attansic ATTP1 OTP) ?
I just need to lift up the Pin 97 & Pin 102(Winbond only)
and then solder the wire from Pin 97 on top of Pin 61 & Pin 102 wire on the (Pin 4 ATTP1)

because previous i have done this mod, that lifting up the Pin 4 ATTP1 & connecting to Pin 5 (RC network).
That what i mean "Restore mobo mod back to default" before using this mod.

Quote:
As for the northbridge, does it have a thermal diode?
I heard my friend mention AN7 have temp monitor for the northbridge
I not sure is die temp or AN7 taking the temp from external probe

Thank for yr reply.
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Old 13th June, 2004, 04:52 PM
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I believe the AN7 has a thermal probe under the north bridge.

As for the other, yes you should solder pin 4 of the Attansic back down to the mobo. You don't need to move the jumper though. It's already in the right place. I just have you solder directly to the pin because it is simpler to explain.
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Old 13th June, 2004, 07:25 PM
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Now how and the HELL did I miss this one for 5 days!??

Front page where it belongs!!


http://www.aoaforums.com/

P.S. I also managed to miss that you posted it! I took your's down as MINE has a picture! LOL

This is some pretty AWESOME work Gizmo! Thanks for sharing! ":O}
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Old 13th June, 2004, 07:32 PM
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Should this be copied to our FAQ Topic... Why Yes Daniel ~ I think it should!

{Like I'm the only one who types to himself!?":O}
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Old 11th July, 2004, 10:23 PM
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Excellent mod, been looking for this for a long time. Will soon be able to see what my CPU actually runs at now well thats if I dont kill my mobo in the process.
Hood
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Old 12th July, 2004, 01:54 AM
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Good luck. I'm glad the mod is useful to you.
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Old 1st August, 2004, 10:49 PM
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Finally got the time to do the mod. It was very tricky, didnt have a magnifying glass at the time. Not sure if I have done it right, BIOS reads -38deg which doesnt change, if I set up MBM to use winbond 3 I get temps that react very quickly so looks like its reading the diode, but afraid it shows around the 30deg. I have a Vapo and the evap is at -20 and reacts to CPU load so I know contact is good. Any ideas? have I done it wrong?
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Old 1st August, 2004, 11:16 PM
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The BIOS reading will always be from the socket thermistor, so it should be the same as it has always been.

As I've never run the thing with a phase-change system like the Vapo, I don't know if your 30 degree reading is reasonable or not, but if it is reacting rapidly to changes in load and environment, then it sounds like it is working.
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 12:06 AM
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I would think that a temp difference between the evap and core would be more like 10 or 15 deg rather than the 50 or so I am getting. It must be the diode that is being read due to the speed of change and also core/evap contact must be good as the evap temp also changes quickly as does the compressor speed. Is there a chance that bridging some of the legs with solder could give me erroneous readings? Or would it just not show at all?
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 12:11 AM
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Gizmo, on the Abit-USA forum you mentioned the winbond offset register. I've noticed that NF7 temp readings that have stabilised after a cold start do a step and stabilise at a different value if you reboot. Do you have any reason for this?
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 07:47 AM
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Reposted from the Abit-USA forum

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: the Winbond chip DOES provide the capability to do an offset measurement. You can program a register to offset the temp reading by x degrees and it will do so. This is probably what the BIOS engineers are doing when they twiddle the temp readings. But this should not be regarded as any type of calibration.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats what I was refering to. I have a program that reads the W83627hf chip offsets directly. (I could email it to you if you want) And it clearly shows the offsets changing on reboot. Maybe its not calibration per se, but its changing/doing something that looks like a calibration.
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 07:55 AM
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Forget the email, its small enough to fit here.
Attached Files
File Type: zip SweetLowsTempCompProg_to.zip (32.1 KB, 355 views)
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bung
Gizmo, on the Abit-USA forum you mentioned the winbond offset register. I've noticed that NF7 temp readings that have stabilised after a cold start do a step and stabilise at a different value if you reboot. Do you have any reason for this?
Not a clue. TBH, I've never really paid any attention to it. And right now my NF-7 is on the fritz, so I've not got any way to verify it.
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkesa
Thats what I was refering to. I have a program that reads the W83627hf chip offsets directly. (I could email it to you if you want) And it clearly shows the offsets changing on reboot. Maybe its not calibration per se, but its changing/doing something that looks like a calibration.
That's probably just the BIOS engineers taking a swag at a reasonable offset value. That is almost certainly hard-coded into the BIOS, and is almost certainly based on data obtained from numerous boards that they have evaluated. At least, that would be my guess.
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood
I would think that a temp difference between the evap and core would be more like 10 or 15 deg rather than the 50 or so I am getting. It must be the diode that is being read due to the speed of change and also core/evap contact must be good as the evap temp also changes quickly as does the compressor speed. Is there a chance that bridging some of the legs with solder could give me erroneous readings? Or would it just not show at all?
Hood
Bridging some of the legs with solder could cause all kinds of weird things. Whether or not it would cause what you are seeing, I can't say.

If, for example, you got pins 102 and 103 shorted together on the winbond chip, that would certainly cause BOTH the thermistor and the diode input to read high.
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 04:47 PM
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BTW, jkesa, welcome to AOA!
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Old 2nd August, 2004, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkesa
quote:

Thats what I was refering to. I have a program that reads the W83627hf chip offsets directly. (I could email it to you if you want) And it clearly shows the offsets changing on reboot. Maybe its not calibration per se, but its changing/doing something that looks like a calibration.
This question surfaces regularly and has never got an answer. Maybe the initial offset on a cold boot doesn't get done properly.

jkesa - have you noticed whether the values used are the same each reboot?
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