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AMD Motherboards & CPUs Questions or comments on AMD products?


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12th April, 2005, 01:23 AM
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AMD dual core A64 deskop appearance in June according to CNet

Hey,

This is what i picked up:
http://news.com.com/AMDs+dual-core+O...l?tag=nefd.top

CNet claims the dual core Opteron will be released this month. Desktop cpu's should follow in June.
I also heard Intel will release ahead of schedule as well.

Does anyone know more? Somewhere in the article CNet also mentiones to price the dual core cpu's replacing their single core counterpart at the same price for a while. For promotional purposes they say though i'm not sure what resellers will have to say about that.


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Old 12th April, 2005, 02:24 AM
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Unless they plan on making both single- and dual-core chips for a while, the dualies are going to HAVE to sell for about the same price as the singles, or people won't buy them.

What I fully expect to have happen is that Sempron will be entirely single-core, and all but the bottom-most A64 chips will be dual-core.
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Old 12th April, 2005, 04:19 PM
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I can remember when seeing 500 mflops was a big advancement. Not that I'm feeling contrary, but is there a real need for dual-cores in SOHO computing? Silly question, nevermind. If they build it, we will buy it.
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Old 12th April, 2005, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo
Unless they plan on making both single- and dual-core chips for a while, the dualies are going to HAVE to sell for about the same price as the singles, or people won't buy them.

What I fully expect to have happen is that Sempron will be entirely single-core, and all but the bottom-most A64 chips will be dual-core.

Look for prices about $50-$80 US higher. The dual opterons are available to order now, and shipping out to some retail channels next week.(they should already be @ OEM's like Dell and HP)


The Sempron line will remain 32-bit, while the Athlon/Turion will be 64-bit. Changes will happen in september to the line-up in a huge way, but i am not too sure how...just some SKU's that will dissappear is all i know. AFAICT, there will be alot of new products about to emerge...i have a ASUS pci-e board here, for socket 754, the ASUS K8N4-E-DX. This board being out already tells me that the new 754 cores for desktop will be out real soon...already got the Sempron 3100+ that features SSE3 as well(1.8ghz 256k).

I am hoping to see the 754 NF4 board from EPoX in the up and coming weeks(waiting for some good overclocking for my semprons and x850xt), maybe the end of next month? at the latest?, although the 754-PCI-E market is a bit slow to emerge...of course E.T. could tell us better...


Here's a pic of the ASUS board...
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AMD dual core A64 deskop appearance in June according to CNet-454_l.jpg  
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Old 13th April, 2005, 01:35 AM
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Will that ASUS board support DC AMD's?
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Old 13th April, 2005, 01:46 AM
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Not unless there are any dual core S754 chips planned, the sempron will have probably moved over to S939 before they decide it's worth having a low end dual core chip.
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Old 13th April, 2005, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondog
Will that ASUS board support DC AMD's?

The only thing preventing ANY SKT 754/939 board from support of dualcores is a bios revision. AMD has had multi-core plans from the get-go with the A64...the crossbar interface between the actual core, and both the memory controller and hypertransport, make the A64 platform cross-compatible in all it's formats...both in core and SKT support, as well as chipset and core support. They thought ahead in thier design. And to think a few years ago Intel called them crazy....and ever since then Intel has been playing catch-up.

To really answer your question..., there WILL be dualcore 754 processors for the mobile market, so it only makes sense that they will make it to the desktop, and this ASUS board kind of leads the path down that route...there is no reason to pair PCI-E with 754, unless it needed more bandwidth. So what do they fill that bandwidth with?



ASUS K8N-E is moddable to SLi as well(there is a carefully hidden second port for a card on the lower pci-e connector). Works with 71.xx driver revisions.
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Old 13th April, 2005, 02:18 AM
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Meanwhile, Intel has confirmed the earlier release of their competing dual core products. Intel and AMD users will both benefit

I'm eager to see how different nforce4 motherboards will perform, with nforce4 for intel as well. Though i'm still expecting the AMD solutions to outperform the ones from Intel, we will see if intel has learned some lessons from AMD

Also, if you want to "stock up" on a single core chip then the first weeks after the official release could come in handy.
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Old 13th April, 2005, 02:30 AM
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Wincesters are almost all gone now as it is...3500+939 is now a 512k clawhammer. They have been clocking really well as well...2.2ghz getting 2.75ghz on avg(only when running ram 1:1 it seems tho).


AMD has admitted that thier memory controller on the Winchester was bunk, and they are still having some issue with the new cores as well, but the transition to 90nm has been pretty crappy from AMD. I am assuming that the memory controller for the dualcores in a completely different animal, and it may be prone to the same sort of problems as the winchester is, but that remains to be seen.

I had it on good faith that the current 90nm Semprons are RMA'ed Winchesters. Just disabled the offending parts of the controller, and some even have half the lines in the L2 cache...seems there are a few different types of "reduced cache" core....and then to ensure that the mem controller never gets stressed, they disabled 64-bit. But noone except AMD knows the real story.

Very funny too that the news came out today as well that the dualcores will be announced for desktop on the 15th, meaning that they will be shipping out the following week to OEM's, and 3-4 weeks later(which would put us almost at june) they should be in retail en-masse. But i still am getting parts that are not "released", like this ASUS board( only taipei, and here AFAIK) And the SSE3 sempron...no word of thier release, but here they sit on my desk! The ASUS board isn't even on many of the major ASUS sites yet! Seems i know about some of this stuff before the supposed "gurus" that write at all these sites do. Maybe they are just too focused on the newest, fastest, and i'm looknig for great deals on budget parts that will perform way above spec.
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Old 19th April, 2005, 10:19 AM
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What is listed below is going to be what Kills Intel for the rest of the year (and probably a decent part of 06).

Quote:
Dual Core A64 and HyperThreading
14-04-2005 20:28:37 - Samuel D.

By attentively studying the behavior of a Dual Core Athlon 64, we realized that a very interesting characteristic of the upcoming Desktop Dual Core chip from AMD was hidden. In fact, if the K8 marchitecture cannot support the Intel's HyperThreading (HT) technology, it seems that the CPUID registers of the processor are not of this opinion. If we carefully study the response to instruction CPUID with EAX = 1, we obtain the following values:

Athlon 64 Simple Core - CPUID (EAX = 1)
Hex (EDX) : 0x078bfbff
Bin (EDX) : 0b00000111100010111111101111111111
Hex (EBX) : 0x00000800

Athlon 64 Dual Core - CPUID (EAX = 1)
Hex (EDX) : 0x178bfbff
Bin (EDX) : 0b00010111100010111111101111111111
Hex (EBX) : 0x00020800

The bit 28 in register EDX (which is emphasized in red here) corresponds to the support of HyperThreading. However, we can see clearly that this bit is now set to 1 whereas it was to 0 for a standard, Single Core, Athlon 64. In the same way, the bits [23:16] of register EBX, which indicate the number of logicals CPU supported on Intel CPUs with Hyperthreading enabled, are also set to "2" in the case of a DC Athlon 64.

So, It seems that AMD chose to activate the "HyperThreading" bit on those Athlon 64 Desktop CPUs in order to profit from optimizations already done by many programmers for HyperThreading technology. This will make possible for those upcoming Athlon 64 Dual Core to also benefit from work already carried out. For now, we do not know yet if the Dual Core Opterons will also have this bit active.
http://www.x86-secret.com/?option=newsd&nid=870

For those that don't understand I'll try to Simplify what is listed above...

AMD Athlon64 X2 and Dual Core Opteron's will have the HT Bit enabled.
This does not mean the processors have HT, it means that HT enabled applications will be able to use BOTH cpu's of the dual core. Fooling app into thinking its a single HT processor.

Now think about this... HT is very close to dual core. The only difference is HT can not run 2 Sum Threads at the same time (that is run in a single section on the cpu that both thread pipelines use).

Intel has been pushing HyperThreading for almost 5 years (late 2000 and earlier).

HT enabled applications have been out since 2001 and HT optimized apps have been out since early 2003 thanks to Intel's compilers and marketing power.

HT is very similar to SMP except for the 2 sum threads issue. Now that HT app when put on a dual cpu system and fooling the app into thinking its a single cpu with HT will allow the HT app to actually do the 2 sums that HT can't do. More importantly it can fully use both processors even though it is not listed as an SMP optimized application.

I can't wait to see benchmarks with the 4400+ and 4800+'s in action.

Not only that but people will now be able to truely do multitasking in a way they never even realized.

Hmmm.... and encoders/decoders that are HT optimized should show a modest (under estimating) improvement

One of the greatest downfalls of HT is that one thread has to be put into a wait state so the other thread can do its sum, then the thread that was put on hold is allowed to do its sum. This stop and go of both pipelines greatly reduces the performance that HT could have had if Intel would have just gone and created a dual core with the P4 in the first place. This is why HT enabled cpu's with HT optimized apps only show a marginal performance improvement over the same speed and cache size cpu's with HT disabled (HT is roughly 2 to 14% then Non-HT in an optimized test).
Take away the wait states for both pipelines (IE go dual core) and that 2 to 14% should jump to 30 to 70% in an optimized environment....

Intel really really needs to find a new Paddle... the one that have isn't getting them back down the creek {pun at the "Up a Creek without a Paddle" joke}
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Old 20th April, 2005, 01:39 AM
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So That's what this dual core business is about.... But aren't those applications that benefit from HT primarily productivity Applications? I guess gaming could and would follow. I keep seeing visions of those stock market programs....but I have invested heavily in the computing industry No money for other investing. HT conjures up memories of "Punch Card Operators".
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Old 20th April, 2005, 02:00 AM
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the biggest improvement normal users will see from dual cores will just be an increase in the smoothness of use, they will be able to encode a video in the background whilest playing a game, or even 2, any tasks which are tanning one core, will leave the other free for other use.

Games will take advantage of dual cores, it's inevitable, but they won't see massive benefits, not while most people are generally limitted by their video card.
Games which use bots will benefit most, and games with complex physics engines, though this may not be a burden on the cpu forever if the physics processor takes off.
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Old 20th April, 2005, 03:33 AM
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gamers won't be so bandwidth limited, for the start, and this is really important with games that use complex shaders. 2 gigs @ ddr400 makes for some nice gaming.
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