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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogurt_21
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...on64-fx60.html
your own bias is revealed in the link you posted which is purposely without the fx60! not to mention the preslers on a 65nm technolgy still produce way more heat and consume more watts than any of the 90nm amd's quite a feat as the heat and watt consumption usually goes down with a smaller nm.
granted the fx 60 is more expensive than the 955ee, but the 4800x2 is also much cheaper than the 955ee giving the same price/performance buffer leaving the 4800 still the best performing dual core for the money out of the three.
and the review I'm psting is also biased because i've had an fx 60 easily up to 3.4GHZ on air!
Ok I've got it now! If a site agrees with you it's unbiased, if not it's biased. Unless they don't agree with you enough. then it's slightly biased, but somewhat reliable...to the extent they agree with you.
So that leaves us with your opinion and those who agree with it as THE unbiased repositories of truth.

I can't think of a faster way to stop people from listening to your point of view.

Not on to the real reason for my little visit...

"lol toms hardware has an intel bias (as does anandtech mr dsio so your link is also a load of bull)"

Statements like this one introduce a disrespectful and unnecessarily hostile tone. Addressing dsio as "mr dsio" is used as a sneer and as means toward discounting dsio and his point of view.

Please find a better more gentile means of making your biases known, Of presenting the reviews in support of your biases. Your merely asserting that those who disagree with you are bias, does not make it so. Doing so in a forceful manner does not make it so. Doing so in an unpleasant manner does not make it so.

Honestly I alone in this thread have no bias on this subject as I know nothing about it, have zero current interest in the subject, and several generations may pass before I renew my interest. That may be seen as poverty rather than a bias against both Intel and AMD. ":O}
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogurt_21
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...on64-fx60.html
your own bias is revealed in the link you posted which is purposely without the fx60! not to mention the preslers on a 65nm technolgy still produce way more heat and consume more watts than any of the 90nm amd's quite a feat as the heat and watt consumption usually goes down with a smaller nm.
granted the fx 60 is more expensive than the 955ee, but the 4800x2 is also much cheaper than the 955ee giving the same price/performance buffer leaving the 4800 still the best performing dual core for the money out of the three.
and the review I'm psting is also biased because i've had an fx 60 easily up to 3.4GHZ on air!
1: I never said they were low power consuming at all. I don't buy CPUs because they run cold, or because they are energy efficient. It simply isnt a selling point.

2: The 955EE is comparable to the 4800+. We both know this, but the fact is neither the 4800+ nor the 955EE can be called good performance for the money.

3: All of the 900s hit similar overclocks, easily withing the 4.2-4.5Ghz range on air. This goes for the 920, the cheapest model, as well as the 955EE. Higher binned chips do OC slightly better but only slightly.

4: An FX-60 (2.6Ghz) at 3.4Ghz is a 31% overclock. Now lets compare that with a bottom of the range Intel Pentium D 920. A 2.8Ghz 920 will hit 4.2 on air completely stable. My 920 is comming in two weeks, and I expect to hit around 4.4 with a good air cooler.

Now, lets say you only hit 4.2Ghz. Thats a 50% overclock. On air cooling.

Think about it. The 920 here in Australia is $350. The 3800+ Athlon X2 is $480. That is a massive difference, when you consider that a 3800+ will not even come close to clocking as well as the 920.

Presler is the new Celeron 300A. It simply is incredible value for a dual core processor, and no matter how much you distrust everyone, you cannot deny that there is nothing from AMD that can match that price/performance point.

I am not an Intel fan, I happen to be a long time AMD owner, and I firmly believe that for many years Intel's range has been complete crap, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
I am not an Intel fan, I happen to be a long time AMD owner, and I firmly believe that for many years Intel's range has been complete crap, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
Quote:
I spend 70% of my time on intel machines, 30% on AMDs. The AMDs are good, but the Intels are still what I spend my time using, because they are simply brilliant.
those statements are quite contradictory, no matter how you look at it.

Quote:
Ok I've got it now! If a site agrees with you it's unbiased, if not it's biased. Unless they don't agree with you enough. then it's slightly biased, but somewhat reliable...to the extent they agree with you.
So that leaves us with your opinion and those who agree with it as THE unbiased repositories of truth.
as far as that goes anantech as a whole may not be biased towards intel, but their trends up to now have been so, in every cpu review there was always a stronger push towards intel, it makes sense seeing as intel has the deepest pockets and anandtech among others know this, intel sells more chipsets, morecpus, more graphics (onboard), and overall sells more than any other hardware company in existence, in fact well over twice the combined sales of amd, nvidia, and ati. intel has the money, thus anandtech, tomshardware, and many others will continue to show trends of bias in their reviews it's unavoidable, intel has deep pockets. so no I can care less that they agree with me or not (hense the review from xbit on the fx 60 agreeing with me but I still showed a bias) the best source is first hand, and being a retailer, I have access to all new pieces of hardware (that are sellable anyways).
dsio claims to be unbiased but his trend in this thread shows an intel bias, I have admitted on several occasions that i have a strong amd/ati bias, perhaps I have a thing for the underdog. lol
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogurt_21
those statements are quite contradictory, no matter how you look at it.


Far from it.

I have to work to pay for my studies and my computers. My work computer is an IBM Thinkpad laptop with an Intel Pentium M. My work desktop is a company purchased HT Pentium 4 3.2Ghz. The entire office is full of the same 3.2Ghz Pentium 4 HTs. I didn't get an option in the matter. For a desktop machine for doing the work I do, with heavy multi-tasking, the HT Pentium performs better than my AMD desktop. I don't game or do anything extremely intensive at work, I just fold and work.

I spend 70% of my time on my Pentium M laptop and alot of time on my work machine. This isn't by choice, its by need.

As far as a mobile solution, there isn't an AMD that can perform as well, with as long a battery life as the Pentium M, so I have to use it. It isn't bad at all, but it isn't my choice.

My choice is in my home desktops. A pair of S939 AMDs, a pair of T-bred Athlon XPs, a Morgan core Duron, and some K6-2s.

So the simple fact is yes. I am an AMD fan, and I do love my AMDs, and I do buy AMDs. But I still spend more time on Intel machines.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 07:56 AM
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As far as me being intel biased, if you read some of my old posts, you would understand how silly that is.

http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/358630-post540.html

There are plenty more, and I can assure you, I payed out Weldzilla almost as much as dave and andy did for his intel worshiping in the past.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 10:35 AM
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admittedly the last intel setup i ran as a personal comp was a top of the line p2 desktop (400MHZ/128MB/ati radeon 32Mb) so all the work i've done on intels was in video encoding since the release of the p4's where the raw clock speeds make a big difference.

overclocking wise i wil admit I've yet to see a 3800x2 do anything impressive (which is funny being that it's venice core counterpart hits 50% overclocks on air) the fx60 seems to have resolved that but it's way too expensive to be practical (not to mention the impending socket change)

intel goin 65nm was a simply brialliant move being that their 90nm cpus left alot to be desired the 65nm processors do run cooler and put off less heat that the 90nm intels, not to mention the dual core performance margin increase.

above all I'm not saying the new cpu's from intel are totally crap I'm just expecting much more, intel's deep pockets should allow for the manufacturing of cpu's that should spank amd, yet they have't and because they haven't amd has ravaged the market prices leaving retailers in the dust, it used to be easier to push performance chips, now it's like selling an astin martin at a kia dealership yeah it's way better, but ultimately way to expensive.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 10:50 AM
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Yea, the 900 series is hampered by the Netburst achitecture. That is the only problem left with the Intel CPUs really. Conroe (the next dual core chip after presler) will use the same 65nm process, but will overclock even better, given its low power laptop initial development. It will be a Pentium M based dual core chip, and an evolution of the Dothan's family, marking the death of Netburst.

That is the big thing that intel is building towards, and it is expected well within 6 months. That said, the 920 is good enough for me, and should be great for my purposes. Knowing how good the Pentium Ms are, I have a feeling Conroe will actually take the speed crown, if not at stock speeds, then at its incredible overclocked speed.

At this point the 920/930 does exactly what it should do though. Provide mainstream dual core, with massive performance potential through overclocking to the masses at a decent price.

When Conroe and AMD Socket AM2 are here in 5 months, I intend to go DDR2, PCI-E and to a new socket all at once.

I think it will be a very close match between Conroe and Windsor. I have a sneaking suspicion I will still be buying the Windsor, but competition is exactly whats needed, and I think after a long drought, Intel are providing it in spades, ESPECIALLY for us overclockers, looking for massive performance gains for free.

I honestly do think the 920 is the next Athlon XP-M / Celeron 300A.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel ~
Please find a better more gentile means of making your biases known, Of presenting the reviews in support of your biases. Your merely asserting that those who disagree with you are bias, does not make it so. Doing so in a forceful manner does not make it so. Doing so in an unpleasant manner does not make it so.
Daniel sometimes you see things in peoples writing I'm not sure they know is there.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January, 2006, 07:18 PM
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ALso I'm breaking in here as virtualy unbiast, I am 50%,50%. Right now the new intels in my opinion are better then AMD's X2 simply for OC'ing potential alone. They are more advanced. Sorry for this yogurt, but anyway intel just put them out they are more advanced then AMD, soon AMD will have something new out.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 8th February, 2006, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloasters
That AMD's dual core processors outperform Intel's double core efforts is a fact. I'll be shocked if Michael Dell ever builds a PC with an AMD CPU.

I 'll be shocked if he ever builds a reliable workstation ...

I had a good job changing out harddisks nearly every day at the Bank where I worked; all Dells, with HDD's that were not enough cooled, so their lifespan was always going to be less than the guarantee period of 3 years ...

Give me a Compaq (eueuh HP) any day ... ... ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12th February, 2006, 03:49 AM
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if tweaks r us ever starts doing reviews like that... you wouldnt have to worry about anything being bias
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12th February, 2006, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi
if tweaks r us ever starts doing reviews like that... you wouldnt have to worry about anything being bias
Before you start making reviews, how about an 83.60 XG driver? I'm loving this new driver set, even if the new Nvidia interface is a bit naff.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12th February, 2006, 04:50 AM
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hehe that will be out tomorrow :P
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12th February, 2006, 04:58 AM
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Well its tooken long enuff

I don't spose you could include some extra resolution modes in the driver? I had to use ReForce to create the 1152x864 mode and a bunch of refresh rates it doesnt support.

The new interface really is rubbish, and crashes constantly, and the display modes leave much to be desired unless you know how to get around it, but I honestly think the driver is brilliant. My 3DMark06 score went upskis quite nicely, BF2 crashed 3% less that usual, and the IQ is definately pretty decent.

I havn't posted the 83.60s here yet, as I think without at least an inf that supports all cards and a large heap of resolutions, its too beta to host.

What it does show is promising results.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 19th February, 2006, 05:55 AM
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I hate to get into these AMD vs Intel thingy's but when an Intel chip is stroking almost a 1ghz or better in speed over an AMD chip it should be spanking AMD's butt alot instead of the mediocre little that it does in some benchmarks that have been compiled on an Intel compiler program! So let's keep it in perspective, clock for clock an AMD processor is faster and more efficient than an Intel processor and you can't argue that!!
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 19th February, 2006, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_G
I hate to get into these AMD vs Intel thingy's but when an Intel chip is stroking almost a 1ghz or better in speed over an AMD chip it should be spanking AMD's butt alot instead of the mediocre little that it does in some benchmarks that have been compiled on an Intel compiler program! So let's keep it in perspective, clock for clock an AMD processor is faster and more efficient than an Intel processor and you can't argue that!!
Since football player number one out weighs football player number two buy one hundred pounds but tackles only slightly harder, and can be contracted for a lesser price I think we should go with football player number two anyway because he makes more use of his weight.

^Kinda silly
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 19th February, 2006, 10:42 PM
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You are so correct not being silly in my thoughts. I just think the whole thing is crazy ! That's why they build Fords and Chevys different strokes for different folks! Though the best Intel machine I have seen since they came out with the P4 was a 3ghz HT machine on an Asus board all the others before HT and lower speeds were dog A-_ _ slow when I reloaded them! I wasn't impressed at all! I loaded 2 non HT 2ghz P4 machines and my old Compaq P3-500 notebook ran circles around them! LOL I think I'll stick with my AMD main machine though ! You know??
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 20th February, 2006, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_G
You are so correct not being silly in my thoughts. I just think the whole thing is crazy ! That's why they build Fords and Chevys different strokes for different folks! Though the best Intel machine I have seen since they came out with the P4 was a 3ghz HT machine on an Asus board all the others before HT and lower speeds were dog A-_ _ slow when I reloaded them! I wasn't impressed at all! I loaded 2 non HT 2ghz P4 machines and my old Compaq P3-500 notebook ran circles around them! LOL I think I'll stick with my AMD main machine though ! You know??
I was not sayign intel was better than amd, nor would i say amd is better than intel. I was just pointing out that clock for clock performance is a useless statistic, didnt mean to insult you or offend you.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 20th February, 2006, 01:11 AM
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In my case it's my WALLET that's biased. When the time comes to dump my trusty old P4 I'll buy whatever is cheaper, AMD or Intel or who knows what! Cheaper chips perform better in my bank account. Call me Scrooge baby!

Sorry for the rant
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Old 20th February, 2006, 10:44 AM
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When i built my rig could only afford AMD so thats what i went for.
Now everyone i know are all building AMD rigs
Price sometimes counts.......
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