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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 18th April, 2006, 11:44 PM
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Question A64 3800+ X2 or Opteron 165 dual core?

I decided to upgrade my S939 NewCastle 3400+ machine to a low end dual core, and ordered a 3800+ X2, but then I ran across the Opteron S939 offerings and saw the 165 dual core is only about $30 more.

The only difference I see is the Opteron has 1GB cache Vs the A64 X2 512MB. From everything I've read in the past, the additional cache makes little difference in dual core run time performance, and typically reduces o/c.

Is the Opteron 165 actually a great deal and to be preferred over the X2? Any thoughts or experience?

Thanks -- Trevor
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Old 18th April, 2006, 11:47 PM
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The 1MiB cache will increase performance slightly, and Opterons are made of higher grade sillicon, as I understand it, so will generally overclock to higher speeds stabley.
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Old 19th April, 2006, 01:04 AM
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Ya mean that Opterons finally cost more? Guess that dodge couldn't go on forever.
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Old 19th April, 2006, 01:24 AM
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OPteron...more on-board cache and the overclcokability factor makes it a choice cpu.

Don't let the name fool you however...get a cpu with the last five digits of the serial number being high, and averages show that it won't clock all that high, as well, the binning of opteron cores has gotten a bit better as of late. If you purchase from a selection of stock, try to get an early week as possible.
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Old 19th April, 2006, 09:01 PM
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Thanks guys -- so I gather the Opteron 165 used to cost even less -- too bad the price went the wrong way . I just noticed aother difference, the Opteron is spec'd at 1.8GHz, whereas the X2 spec is 2GHz. That suggests the memory will have to push higher with the Opteron to achieve the same CPU o/c as the X2 -- i.e. faster memory needed. Hmmm!

Regarding the date codes -- I wouldn't have any control.

-- Trevor
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Old 20th April, 2006, 01:33 AM
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The difference in speed between the 2 cpu's is offset by the cache size...1MB for the Opteron, and 512K for the A64X2.
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Old 20th April, 2006, 02:50 AM
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L2 size equalization of the clock speed appears to hold for the 'FEAR' PC game (intensive 3D -- almost matched the X2), but otherwise it doesn't seem to make much difference. (Spent some time this afternoon reading articles about the Opteron 165.)

Advantage of the large L2 is apparently with intensive itterative processing. In all other shown performance tests, the X2 had a clear margin due to the higher clock. Of course, that's before o/c, where I get the impression they clock to similar levels.

Still, you point out the most recent Opteron 165 date codes are showing weaker o/c performance -- so I guess it's really uncertain how the 165 would compare (absolute clock, not %).

Since I don't want to buy new memory for it, and my board seems to apply coarse memory division (no finesse), and the X2 is in fact cheaper, I guess I'll stay with the 3800+ X2. Can definitely see the appeal of the 165 though -- especially at the earlier pricing (under $290 for the Opteron, over $330 for the 3800+ X2). Guess AMD detected a sales volume imbalance .

Thanks guys -- Trevor
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Old 20th April, 2006, 03:16 AM
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just for clarity's sake, the 512k X2's do not clock like the 1mb counterparts(and thereby, the Opterons). Some of the 3800+'s out there are, in fact, 1mb cache cpu's, w/ half the cache disabled...it's only these 3800+'s the clock considerably well. *newer week 3800's are the exception tho, thanks to the new memory controller.

The only way to really know is to remove the heatspreader, although certain steppings and weeks hold the majority of these cores. Teh same goes for A64's and 1mb cache cpu's...some of these a bit back were dual cores w/ one core disabled.
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Old 20th April, 2006, 05:55 AM
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I remember seeing something once before about AMD using Toledo cores for 3800+ X2 chips. I have good performance from a Manchester 4200+ (2.72GHz at 1.5V) and X-Bit labs were talking about 2.5 to 2.6GHz for a Toledo Opteron 165, so I guess I'm hopeful of being in the same neighborhood with the 3800+.

You say there has been another memory controller change? The last one I'm aware of was when they transitioned from Winchester to Venice -- the same controller used in the Toledo and Manchester I thought. Do you know anything about the purpose of the change?

Thanks -- Trevor
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Old 20th April, 2006, 09:00 AM
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Is it true that the Opteron 170 is multiplier unlocked?
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Old 20th April, 2006, 04:31 PM
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I think only the FX series from AMD have unlocked multipliers.
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Old 20th April, 2006, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got EpOx
I think only the FX series from AMD have unlocked multipliers.
Thank goodness that the FX's are so inexpensive. COUGH.
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Old 23rd April, 2006, 07:49 AM
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Well,

My new 3800+ X2 arrived Saturday and I had a couple of unpleasant surprises.

First was instead of the nifty and effective heatpipe heat sink AMD provided with my 4200+ a year ago, there was only a plain-Jane heatsink much like a MassCool .

Second was when the CPU dropped easily into the socket (which it should), it actually had a totally bent over pin. I discovered that when it wouldn't boot and after trying various things (like wiping CMOS and reinstalling the previous CPU). How about that -- totally bent pin straight out of the sealed manufacturer's box .

Luckily, I was able to pry it up with my fingernail and get it realigned -- only a slight dogleg to show for the abuse. It again dropped in easily, but this time it worked .

After I got it running and modestly clocked (the DIMMs only support 223MHz and the 3800+ is 10X). I ran CPUz to find out the die model (Toledo or Manchester) and it came back blank .

Is this a reflection of Toledo and Manchester no longer being in production and there being new models due to the memory controller change Cadaveca alluded to above?
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Old 23rd April, 2006, 02:39 PM
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download new version of cpu-z.
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Old 23rd April, 2006, 02:50 PM
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Latest cpuz 1.33.1

I tried uploading it to aoafiles, but the admins haven't processed it yet
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Old 23rd April, 2006, 03:00 PM
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Watcha talking about willis?

http://files.aoaforums.com/code.php?file=2457

I stucked it there myself two days ago. :P
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Old 23rd April, 2006, 03:05 PM
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I ... ummm ...stupid system should give email or pm notification ..yup that's it ..BLAME THE SYSTEM!!

*tries to walk away nonchalantly*
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Old 23rd April, 2006, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS
Well,

My new 3800+ X2 arrived Saturday and I had a couple of unpleasant surprises.

First was instead of the nifty and effective heatpipe heat sink AMD provided with my 4200+ a year ago, there was only a plain-Jane heatsink much like a MassCool .

Second was when the CPU dropped easily into the socket (which it should), it actually had a totally bent over pin. I discovered that when it wouldn't boot and after trying various things (like wiping CMOS and reinstalling the previous CPU). How about that -- totally bent pin straight out of the sealed manufacturer's box .

Luckily, I was able to pry it up with my fingernail and get it realigned -- only a slight dogleg to show for the abuse. It again dropped in easily, but this time it worked .

After I got it running and modestly clocked (the DIMMs only support 223MHz and the 3800+ is 10X). I ran CPUz to find out the die model (Toledo or Manchester) and it came back blank .

Is this a reflection of Toledo and Manchester no longer being in production and there being new models due to the memory controller change Cadaveca alluded to above?

Shazam, I'm not liking this bent pin business one bit. Gives me less faith in going with a S939 box. Shame on AMD.
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Old 23rd April, 2006, 05:57 PM
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There was a post by a member here who put his S939 CPU in an old Athlon protective box. All the pins were bent by the box being too small. He says AMD sent him a new CPU for free.
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Old 24th April, 2006, 01:16 AM
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Danrock -- That's pretty amazing AMD gave him a new processor -- wonder what he said to them, given it was entirely his own fault.


Thanks guys -- Sure enough, CPU-z 1.33 recognizes Manchester, whereas 1.26 didn't, though it identified the 4200+ correctly -- guess it being a 3800+ was the problem .

Still, if it's a Manchester, then the memory controller must be unchanged.

Thinking of the bent pin -- all I did was open the little plastic case the CPU comes in, picked it up by opposite corners, placed it on the waiting socket, and nudged it into place with my fingernail. It simply dropped in and I lowered the locking lever. Don't see how I could have bent it accidentally -- it dropped in firmly, not tilted. Figure it had to be AMD .

So, today I swapped the RAM for a couple PQI Turbo DIMMs from another box, and now it's running Prime95 at 2.4GHz -- that's enough for this machine, more than it had before with the NewCastle . The NewCastle has joined its old RAM in the other box and my Winchester 3200+ is now retired.

I notice CPU-z 1.33 reports the memory command time for my Turbo as 2T. Are there any particular tricks/techniques for getting it down to 1T?
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