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AMD Motherboards & CPUs Questions or comments on AMD products?


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Old 19th November, 2007, 11:37 AM
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2.4GHz Phenom pulled from shelves before its even got there

It's only a few days away now from the extremly long awaited quad core effort from amd. But there are problems with the B2 revision.

Apparently an errata which effected intels 'core' line of cpu's earlier on this year has crept up in the B2 revision phenom as well. The TLB bug causes systems to hang when the cpu is worked hard.
The phenom at 2.4GHz and above is apparently suffereing from it and unlike intel, amd do not have a micro code update that can fix it completly.

There is a bios update which will make cpu's working at 2.3GHz and below good enough to release, however dont expect much overclocking with them as this feature will ruin your day.

Unfortunutly the fix is another revision of the cpu 'B3' when this revision will surface is anyones guess. Hopefully amd will be able to sell those chips its recalling as its Q4 profits will be horrendus if they have to dump thousands of cpus.

more info here

AMD delays Phenom 2.4 GHz due to TLB errata - The INQUIRER
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Old 19th November, 2007, 04:53 PM
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According to the post at the Inq, the bug may or may NOT affect overclocked CPUs. It for sure affects CPUs that run at 2.4 GHz and above STOCK, but if you buy a 2.3 GHz or slower chip and overclock it, you may not be affected.
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Old 19th November, 2007, 05:32 PM
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From what i've read its a rare bug that most will never see, however it does exist and the cpu cannot be sold with knowledge that it exists
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Old 19th November, 2007, 05:33 PM
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What a body shot! Comes at a very bad time indeed.
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Old 19th November, 2007, 05:58 PM
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I've been trying to figure out how a bug that affects 2.4 GHz chips can not affect 2.3 GHz chips overclocked to 2.4 GHz.

I've got to suspect that the reality of the statement is something like this:
The bug affects all B1 and B2 stepping chips. As long as you're running below 2.4 GHz, you won't see the bug. If you go 2.4 GHz or better and you hit the right workload you can tickle this bug, but the required workload is pretty uncommon so overclockers will probably never see it (but they might).

There's really nothing else that makes any sense to me, since Bit-tech are reporting that it affects B1 AND B2 steppings. They are also reporting that the BIOS patch (which almost certainly IS a microcode update, as the AMD K8 family DO have that capability according to this
, unlike what The Inq are reporting) causes Phenom to take about a 10% performance hit, which is not a good thing.

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Old 20th November, 2007, 02:48 AM
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This is really NOT the kind of phenomenon that AMD needs right now. Great Caesar's ghost, are they shooting both of their feet off at the same time? And Ruiz still sits in the captain's chair? Unbelievable.
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Old 20th November, 2007, 01:45 PM
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It's becoming clear that the gamble amd took on going straight to manufacture with B2 has not paid off. The big question is how much is this going to cost them?
There is going to be large costs in recalling the chips they've already sent out and then what they do with them.
Hopefully they can cheaply repackage the 9700's and sell them from $50 less as a 9600 (total loss of about $100 a chip) and not dump them which will cost them ~$310 per chip.

How is amd's stock doing at present i wonder ...
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Old 21st November, 2007, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwalton View Post
Hopefully they can cheaply repackage the 9700's and sell them from $50 less as a 9600 (total loss of about $100 a chip) and not dump them which will cost them ~$310 per chip.
Err.........help me here because I'm not understanding.

IF AMD takes the 9700 and repackages it as a 9600, and sells it for $50 less, now do they end up losing $100/chip? For that matter, how are they losing anything? They only lose money if they get rid of the chips for less than the cost to produce them.

Near as I can tell, if they repackage them as 9600s, the worst that happens is that they don't get $50 in profit that they would have had otherwise. Not to say that's a good thing, but it certainly isn't a loss.

Even THAT, however, doesn't reflect the real situation. AMD sells primarily to OEMs and distributors, who get quantity pricing, and the quantity pricing for the 9700 is $279 while the 9600 is only $10 less. In other words, if AMD sells the 9700s as 9600s, they take a $10 hit on their profit margin. Again, not a desirable thing (particularly when they probably aren't able to meet demand for the 9700s anyway), but it certainly isn't the same thing as LOSING money on them.
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Old 21st November, 2007, 09:06 AM
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for some reason i seemed to think the 9700 was going to sell for ~$310 the l'inq says they were supposed to be $288 for the 9700, and $278 for the 9600 and $247 for the 9500.

My point about total loss per chip is the fact that they have been manufactured, packaged and sent out to the channel.
The recall is going to cost them in terms of shipping them back to the factory, since the chips are multiplier locked etc they are going to have to physically rework the packaging to change them to a 9600 (if they can actually do this, the IHS on intels recent chips cannot be removed without destroying the cpu die) and then they will have to box them up and ship them out again.

I dont know how much it costs amd to make and distribute each cpu but having to recall and rework chips will probably take a large chunk out of the already small profit margins

All of this costs time and money, the loss i was referring what they planned to earn in selling the chips

The Bean counters at amd i'm sure are having many sleepless nights over it all.

Just having a quick look at amd's stock prices, they closed tuesday at $11.28, after hitting a 52wk low of $11.18 they opened the day at $12.17
AMD's 52wk high is $23 but that was a long time ago. AMD - Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. - Google Finance
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Old 21st November, 2007, 05:45 PM
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Amd opened at $11.15 today and immediately took a hit, in the first hour of trading they dropped to $10.70 which is where they have pretty much stayed, though they did bottom out at $10.53 which is another new 52wk low
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Old 21st November, 2007, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwalton View Post
for some reason i seemed to think the 9700 was going to sell for ~$310 the l'inq says they were supposed to be $288 for the 9700, and $278 for the 9600 and $247 for the 9500.
I believe retail was slated to be in the $320 range or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwalton
I dont know how much it costs amd to make and distribute each cpu but having to recall and rework chips will probably take a large chunk out of the already small profit margins
Without a doubt. And as you point out, that all assumes that they CAN rework the chips.

I wonder who's going to take the fall for this? I'm completely mystified how Hector and the rest can still be employed.
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Old 21st November, 2007, 06:53 PM
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Ever wonder if Intel sometimes pays AMD management?
(Why do these thoughts come to me!!??)
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Old 21st November, 2007, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel ~ View Post
Ever wonder if Intel sometimes pays AMD management?
(Why do these thoughts come to me!!??)
They are more or less owned by the same people - investors.
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Old 21st November, 2007, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel ~ View Post
Ever wonder if Intel sometimes pays AMD management?
(Why do these thoughts come to me!!??)
I'm quite certain MedQuist's management is on the payroll of Dictaphone, so it isn't out of the realm of reason for AMD to be on Intel's payroll.....
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Old 21st November, 2007, 09:07 PM
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I wish just once when I make something up like this, it would turn out to be my overworked imagination! It always has to be worse than I thought it was in my worst mood! Sigh...
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Old 22nd November, 2007, 02:35 AM
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AMD's stock rebounded abit later on today to finish at $10.83 down 45 cents on yesterday (4%)
The rebound however came after the low of $10.52 which was not only a new 52wk low but the lowest its been in 4 years.
AMD's ~8% sale to Abu Dhabi last week now makes sense as they knew they were about to take a hit.

I do wonder how many investors will stick it out to the end of the year.
Lets hope we get the good news that these 9700's can be sold and that they become an overclocking special edition

The graphics biz could bring in alot of money unless nvidia put the squeeze on them, the cpu biz is going to need alot of red ink.
Intel net profits so far this year is ($4.7 billion) is almost enough to settle AMD's $5 billion debts.
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