AOA Forums AOA Forums AOA Forums Folding For Team 45 AOA Files Home Front Page Become an AOA Subscriber! UserCP Calendar Memberlist FAQ Search Forum Home


Go Back   AOA Forums > Hardware > AMD Motherboards & CPUs

AMD Motherboards & CPUs Questions or comments on AMD products?


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 06:04 AM
Gizmo's Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
BassTeroids Champion, Global Player Champion, Aim & Fire Champion, Puzzle Maniax Champion, Othello Champion, Canyon Glider Champion, Unicycle Challenge Champion, YetiSports 9: Final Spit Champion, Zed Champion
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Webb City, Mo
Posts: 16,178
Send a message via ICQ to Gizmo Send a message via AIM to Gizmo Send a message via MSN to Gizmo Send a message via Yahoo to Gizmo Send a message via Skype™ to Gizmo

AMD problems expanded?

According to this blog posting at Tech Report, AMD have finally admitted that the L3 cache problem that caused the Phenom 9700 to be pulled appears to in fact affect ALL clock speeds, and ALL quad-cores (including Barcelona). More interestingly, it appears that AMD may have actually KNOWN about the issue when the chips were released.

Read more on the Front Page:
http://www.aoaforums.com/frontpage/content/view/3617/2/
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 07:35 AM
Member
 
Join Date: April 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,446

If I ran my business as poorly as AMD is run, I would be looking for a sharpee and some cardboard, yet somehow AMD execs keep their jobs and actually feel they are worth their pay..
__________________
Biostar TForce X58 - Core i7 920 - 12GB Corsair Dominator DDR3 - EVGA 560ti - PCP&C 750W - Dual boot, Arch Linux/WinXP
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 07:48 AM
Daniel ~'s Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Seattle Wa.
Posts: 45,606

Golden parachutes or no...it's time someone was pushed from the plane! Stock holders must be livid!
__________________
"Though all men live in ignorance before mystery,
they need not live in darkness...
Justice is foundation and Mercy ETERNAL
."
DKE

"All that we do is touched by Ocean
Yet we remain on the shore of what we know."
Richard Wilbur

[img]/forum/attachments/random-nonsense/16515-sigs-dan_drag.jpg[/img]
Subscribers! Ask Pitch about a Custom Sig Graphic

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 08:29 AM
Gizmo's Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
BassTeroids Champion, Global Player Champion, Aim & Fire Champion, Puzzle Maniax Champion, Othello Champion, Canyon Glider Champion, Unicycle Challenge Champion, YetiSports 9: Final Spit Champion, Zed Champion
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Webb City, Mo
Posts: 16,178
Send a message via ICQ to Gizmo Send a message via AIM to Gizmo Send a message via MSN to Gizmo Send a message via Yahoo to Gizmo Send a message via Skype™ to Gizmo

I would be surprised if good 'ol Hector is around come April. Apparently, his contract is up for renewal then. At this point, it would be easier just to quietly ease him out of the picture than to outright fire him.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 04:23 PM
keithwalton's Avatar
Member/Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 2,257
Send a message via ICQ to keithwalton Send a message via MSN to keithwalton Send a message via Yahoo to keithwalton

Its the gamble they took with the B2 stepping it seems.
I remember the Ati R600 chip going through similar problems in that some revisions of the chip were sent of to manufacture with some really obvious flaws like outputs not connected up to the packaging etc.
__________________
ASUS P5W DH (i975X) - Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.40GHz) Currently 3GHz under water hit 3.3GHz so far - 2x 1GB OCZ PC6400's - 2x Seagate 7200.10 320GB's - Sapphire Radeon x1900xt now water cooled
AOA Team fah
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 05:10 PM
cloasters's Avatar
Asst. BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 21,956

Kick them while they're down? Freakin' idiots, it takes a saint not to these days.
__________________
When the world will be better.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 05:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: April 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,446

I have been in business for awhile and I have had a couple of engines that did not meet my customers expectations on the dyno. The difference being, those engines never reached my customers.

It happens, AMD just needs to man up, suck it up and produce a working product and people will buy them. Anyone on the fence that was waiting for AMD's release is not going to wait now.
__________________
Biostar TForce X58 - Core i7 920 - 12GB Corsair Dominator DDR3 - EVGA 560ti - PCP&C 750W - Dual boot, Arch Linux/WinXP
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 05:53 PM
Gizmo's Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
BassTeroids Champion, Global Player Champion, Aim & Fire Champion, Puzzle Maniax Champion, Othello Champion, Canyon Glider Champion, Unicycle Challenge Champion, YetiSports 9: Final Spit Champion, Zed Champion
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Webb City, Mo
Posts: 16,178
Send a message via ICQ to Gizmo Send a message via AIM to Gizmo Send a message via MSN to Gizmo Send a message via Yahoo to Gizmo Send a message via Skype™ to Gizmo

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccperf721p View Post
I have been in business for awhile and I have had a couple of engines that did not meet my customers expectations on the dyno. The difference being, those engines never reached my customers.
That's the thing; if this L3 cache bug got through testing because their test suite couldn't catch it owing to how random it is, that's one thing. It's not a good thing, but at least it's an honest mistake.

If, on the other hand, they actually KNEW about this bug and released it ANYWAY?! Whoever made that decision should be fired.

Now.

Just my opinion; that and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2007, 06:25 PM
Daniel ~'s Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Seattle Wa.
Posts: 45,606

I like " Pushed from the plane" a little better, seems more final...":O}
__________________
"Though all men live in ignorance before mystery,
they need not live in darkness...
Justice is foundation and Mercy ETERNAL
."
DKE

"All that we do is touched by Ocean
Yet we remain on the shore of what we know."
Richard Wilbur

[img]/forum/attachments/random-nonsense/16515-sigs-dan_drag.jpg[/img]
Subscribers! Ask Pitch about a Custom Sig Graphic

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 6th December, 2007, 08:54 AM
ThunderRd's Avatar
Irreverent Query Chairman
 
Join Date: June 2007
Location: NYC native in northern Thailand
Posts: 2,241

Oh, my.

The sad part is, it's probably an omen of the end of an era of healthy and productive competition in the market. We all have those brands and marques that we consider close to our hearts; Chevy did it for me all these years - and I still drive one now halfway 'round the world from the US.

AMD hooked me when they were truly the underdog, and I have been a supporter ever since. This is really bad news. I came from the printing industry and as some of you may know, it is one of the world's most highly stressful industries *because* of the customer service involved. If your outfit doesn't serve properly, it's dead. If the outfit isn't 100% honest, it'll be exposed. I witnessed competitors go down the drain over the years simply because they didn't buy in to the idea of outstanding CS. I was lucky. Our organization did, and we all had a good run.

This, though, is a real kick in the head for supporters, regardless of *whether* they can weather this ****storm or not. Stock's in the toilet-around $10 I think; debt is off the planet; several of the big investment houses have downgraded the corporate outlook to negative; and on the engineering front, other than server chips, they are playing catch-up (unsuccessfully).

My *VERY reluctant* prediction: Chapter 11 within the next 18 months.
__________________
#1: Tt Armor, ASUS Maximus Extreme, QX9650@4.1G, 8G Corsair Dominator GT DDR3-2000, Corsair HX1050, H2O-Swiftech, Gigabyte GTX470/Arctic Accelero Xtreme Plus II, Intel 520 SSD, Kingston SSD, 2xRaptor 150G RAID0, Win 7 Pro 64
#2: Tt Shark, ASUS P5Q Pro Turbo, Q6600@3.8G, 4G HyperX-1600, Corsair HX850, CoolerMaster V10, 2xASUS 9600GT, 2xRaptor 74G RAID0, OCZ Vertex 4 SSD, Gentoo/siduction Linux [64-bit]
#3, #4: Opteron 170@2.75G nude, A8N-SLI Deluxe, Gentoo

AOA Folding @HomeOur sister site: www.gamersonlinux.com

Last edited by ThunderRd; 6th December, 2007 at 04:12 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 6th December, 2007, 04:06 PM
keithwalton's Avatar
Member/Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 2,257
Send a message via ICQ to keithwalton Send a message via MSN to keithwalton Send a message via Yahoo to keithwalton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
That's the thing; if this L3 cache bug got through testing because their test suite couldn't catch it owing to how random it is, that's one thing. It's not a good thing, but at least it's an honest mistake.

If, on the other hand, they actually KNEW about this bug and released it ANYWAY?! Whoever made that decision should be fired.

Now.

Just my opinion; that and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.
That reminds me of the hubble telescope, they knew it had a flaw in its mirror before they sent the thing up yet the managers ignored the engineers and sent it up anyway 'on time' and looked what happend there, months of delays whilst they tried to fix the problem in space.

With regards to the chap 11 bit the last computer company i remember doing that was 3dfx and look what happend to them (there main rival ate them up)
__________________
ASUS P5W DH (i975X) - Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.40GHz) Currently 3GHz under water hit 3.3GHz so far - 2x 1GB OCZ PC6400's - 2x Seagate 7200.10 320GB's - Sapphire Radeon x1900xt now water cooled
AOA Team fah
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 6th December, 2007, 04:31 PM
ThunderRd's Avatar
Irreverent Query Chairman
 
Join Date: June 2007
Location: NYC native in northern Thailand
Posts: 2,241

Chapter 11 is a "re-organization" bankruptcy rule that, if the court allows it, puts the company into recievership. They would be allowed to continue normal operations under the supervision of the court, which would control which creditors get paid and when. I'm not an expert but I believe that precious few companies this size would be able to rebound from such a dramatic action.

More likely the path to survival would be a buyout, merger or buy-in. But who'd be interested? Chapter 11 is frequently the last-ditch stand before liquidation, in my limited knowledge.
__________________
#1: Tt Armor, ASUS Maximus Extreme, QX9650@4.1G, 8G Corsair Dominator GT DDR3-2000, Corsair HX1050, H2O-Swiftech, Gigabyte GTX470/Arctic Accelero Xtreme Plus II, Intel 520 SSD, Kingston SSD, 2xRaptor 150G RAID0, Win 7 Pro 64
#2: Tt Shark, ASUS P5Q Pro Turbo, Q6600@3.8G, 4G HyperX-1600, Corsair HX850, CoolerMaster V10, 2xASUS 9600GT, 2xRaptor 74G RAID0, OCZ Vertex 4 SSD, Gentoo/siduction Linux [64-bit]
#3, #4: Opteron 170@2.75G nude, A8N-SLI Deluxe, Gentoo

AOA Folding @HomeOur sister site: www.gamersonlinux.com
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 6th December, 2007, 06:15 PM
Daniel ~'s Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Seattle Wa.
Posts: 45,606

IBM is producing some rather interesting Chips.. Rather have three competitors than none.
__________________
"Though all men live in ignorance before mystery,
they need not live in darkness...
Justice is foundation and Mercy ETERNAL
."
DKE

"All that we do is touched by Ocean
Yet we remain on the shore of what we know."
Richard Wilbur

[img]/forum/attachments/random-nonsense/16515-sigs-dan_drag.jpg[/img]
Subscribers! Ask Pitch about a Custom Sig Graphic

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 6th December, 2007, 09:24 PM
Wolf2000me's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,238

Such a thing is unforgiveable imo, months of extensive testing reveals all bugs. You take a large and representative testing group and write custom testing software. Combined with real application testing they're not going to convince me that they overlooked it while a few weeks after the release it pops up and is widely known accross the net.
__________________
Asus Maximus Formula (X38)
Intel Q6600 3720Mhz
TT Mozart Tx
2x WD Raptors 74gb R0
2x Maxtor 300gb
Asus Geforce EN8800GT
Windoors XP Pro sp2

Download here OcBible 1.55 & Guidemania v1.21
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 7th December, 2007, 09:03 AM
ThunderRd's Avatar
Irreverent Query Chairman
 
Join Date: June 2007
Location: NYC native in northern Thailand
Posts: 2,241

Agreed. That's why I'm leaning toward thinking that somebody made an *executive* decision. Scary.
__________________
#1: Tt Armor, ASUS Maximus Extreme, QX9650@4.1G, 8G Corsair Dominator GT DDR3-2000, Corsair HX1050, H2O-Swiftech, Gigabyte GTX470/Arctic Accelero Xtreme Plus II, Intel 520 SSD, Kingston SSD, 2xRaptor 150G RAID0, Win 7 Pro 64
#2: Tt Shark, ASUS P5Q Pro Turbo, Q6600@3.8G, 4G HyperX-1600, Corsair HX850, CoolerMaster V10, 2xASUS 9600GT, 2xRaptor 74G RAID0, OCZ Vertex 4 SSD, Gentoo/siduction Linux [64-bit]
#3, #4: Opteron 170@2.75G nude, A8N-SLI Deluxe, Gentoo

AOA Folding @HomeOur sister site: www.gamersonlinux.com
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 7th December, 2007, 09:16 PM
Daniel ~'s Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Seattle Wa.
Posts: 45,606

The engineers and creative people work wonders, the bottom liners tear down worlds. What kills me is that they think the world would fail to spin without them.
__________________
"Though all men live in ignorance before mystery,
they need not live in darkness...
Justice is foundation and Mercy ETERNAL
."
DKE

"All that we do is touched by Ocean
Yet we remain on the shore of what we know."
Richard Wilbur

[img]/forum/attachments/random-nonsense/16515-sigs-dan_drag.jpg[/img]
Subscribers! Ask Pitch about a Custom Sig Graphic


Last edited by Daniel ~; 7th December, 2007 at 09:17 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 8th December, 2007, 01:46 AM
cloasters's Avatar
Asst. BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 21,956

Can't gainsay that. Ugh, if AMD goes under Intel will be up to the crap they pulled when they were the only real game in town. $600 P3's?
__________________
When the world will be better.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 8th December, 2007, 03:43 AM
SteveI's Avatar
AOA Staff
Tetris Champion
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,971

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
I would be surprised if good 'ol Hector is around come April. Apparently, his contract is up for renewal then. At this point, it would be easier just to quietly ease him out of the picture than to outright fire him.
Good 'ol Hector went to finish the job he started but got canned before he could finish at Motorola (destroy a quality company making money).... when he took over Motorola years ago, they were one of the blue chip tech companies. Kids think of motorola as a cell phone company now. Remember startak? They had an exclusive in Apple CPUs, a lead role in cablemodems, and was a cream of the crop company. Hector's forte is maximizing profits, ie. raise prices on anything popular until no one can afford it, ignore competition, and continue to demand premium prices, even when all your customers seek alternative sourcing. It effectively made Motorola non competitive just when Samsung started expanding, IBM increased R&D in chip manufacture, and a combination of other business factors hit Motorola from every leading market segment. The board finally got rid of Hector, and to this day, Motorola is still trying to recover.

Hector came on board, long after the A64 core was not only designed but implemented. His strategy of overpricing, fit in perfectly for a while... It increased profits temporarily, and true to form, when c2d was announced.... he completely ignored it. Of course, he claimed credit for record profits... But the profits where really a combination of technology developed AND implemented before he took over, and major SNAFUs by Intel. He deserves absolutely ZERO credit for that.

I had a long rant when he took over... At the time, I was an AMD shareholder. I dumped my shares at the perfect time, when c2d was first announced. The rest of the market realized the impact over a year later.... After Hector decided AMD was bullet proof and emptied all available cash (that was direly needed in infrastructure upgrades) for ATI. He was behaving like the egomaniac exec that is true to form.

I hope his recent spins are finally seen for what they are, a cover up of the mgmt's failure to see the obvious. (They give themselves credit, and bonuses, they didn't earn. Then, ignore the competition, and stop spending on the only hope they have of being competitive, R&D.) He'll probably cut costs now, including on factory expense to upgrade for die shrinks... He doesn't understand the tech business, let alone semi-conductor driving forces.

I can boil down his core philosophy as such: a leading edge in any technology is the perfect opportunity to maximize profits. Any leading edge tech, should be proprietary to protect against competition, which makes higher prices possible, and take away the need to invest (ie cost) in further development.

WHen Hector came, senior management did a 180 to us... they called overclockers thieves. Remember just a couple of years before, Jerry Sanders opened up the pins, making Athlons all UNLOCKED, and welcomed "enthusiasts" as a core loyal customer.... I think Jerry even promised that CPUs would always be unlocked going forward.

Even better, Last Christmas, when little guys got the shaft so that AMD could satisfy the big channel, ie Dell.... Those CPUs that would have been sold to the small guys where held back for Dell, only to be returned when Dell couldn't sell them, and AMD tried to pawn those CPUs to the same guys they just slapped in the face!

Gee... Why should a tech company, that competes in a market where the core technology turns over every 18 months, actually have to waste money on R&D ???? (I include not only engineering new core tech, but infrastructure expenses like to handle die shrinks.) No, no, no. Money whould be better spent on bonuses, and buying companies to compete in other markets, while ignoring the main competitive market within core capabilities of AMD.

As a result, AMD is no longer 1/2 a generation behind as it always was with Jerry, but basically out of the race all together in research.

AMD survived 30 years playing catch up to Intel's lead in technology. Not bad when the R&D budget is about 10% of Intel's.... However, it seems that only a few years after the most financially succesful year of AMD's existence, they managed to be on the verge of bankruptcy. Don't be fooled, corporations can survive on the edge for a long time... As long as they can spin a story long enough to bring in creative financing, (ie, fiddle on the deck of the titanic.)

Not that I'm annoyed or anything.
__________________
AOA Team fah

Last edited by SteveI; 8th December, 2007 at 04:07 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 8th December, 2007, 04:04 AM
Gizmo's Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
BassTeroids Champion, Global Player Champion, Aim & Fire Champion, Puzzle Maniax Champion, Othello Champion, Canyon Glider Champion, Unicycle Challenge Champion, YetiSports 9: Final Spit Champion, Zed Champion
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Webb City, Mo
Posts: 16,178
Send a message via ICQ to Gizmo Send a message via AIM to Gizmo Send a message via MSN to Gizmo Send a message via Yahoo to Gizmo Send a message via Skype™ to Gizmo

You're preaching to the choir here, Brother Steve. Cloasters and I both declared the move to make Hector CEO of AMD a bad idea at the time. I KNEW what he'd done with Motorola. It took him rather longer than I expected with AMD, but he still did pretty much what I expected.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 8th December, 2007, 04:12 AM
Daniel ~'s Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Seattle Wa.
Posts: 45,606

Only arrogance and indifference can abide such waste.
__________________
"Though all men live in ignorance before mystery,
they need not live in darkness...
Justice is foundation and Mercy ETERNAL
."
DKE

"All that we do is touched by Ocean
Yet we remain on the shore of what we know."
Richard Wilbur

[img]/forum/attachments/random-nonsense/16515-sigs-dan_drag.jpg[/img]
Subscribers! Ask Pitch about a Custom Sig Graphic

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Unreal 2 Expanded Multiplayer Released!!! BigRed GAMES! OH YEAH! 44 28th December, 2003 05:59 PM
EP-8RGA+ Problems, problems problems and misery offie EPoX MotherBoards 12 17th September, 2003 08:13 PM
8RDA+ Problems Problems Pogue EPoX MotherBoards 3 8th February, 2003 01:26 AM
EP 4PEA+: PROBLEMS on PROBLEMS!..Need help.. darkstar11 EPoX MotherBoards 13 24th November, 2002 09:52 PM
Have you expanded your desktop with a second Monitor? Daniel ~ Random Nonsense! 15 1st October, 2002 05:13 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:14 PM.


Copyright ©2001 - 2010, AOA Forums
Don't Click Here Don't Click Here Either

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0