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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 23rd July, 2002, 12:57 AM
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Pink,

Just out of curiousity, how come you went for the multiplier OC instead of the FSB OC? Do you have a lot PCI devices?
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 23rd July, 2002, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mookydooky


UB, you can't compare Pink's temps to yours. Your temps are read directly from the in-die thermistor of the AXP. Pink's, I assume he's still using the 8KHA+, are reading from an in-socket thingie. The core of the sun is hotter than the surface. As long as your temps don't start hitting 80C with regularity, I wouldn't worry about your CPU temp.
OK, I wasn't sure. I am just curious, I suppose. I didn't know 80C was the cut off. What advantages are there to unlocking? Adjustable voltages?
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 23rd July, 2002, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob


OK, I wasn't sure. I am just curious, I suppose. I didn't know 80C was the cut off. What advantages are there to unlocking? Adjustable voltages?
AMD says that the AXP will run fine up to 90C core temperature. I figure if you stay 10C or so below it, you should be fine. Most people who unlock actually do the opposite way that Pinky went. They do it to drop the multiplier so they can use a higher FSB and thus gain more memory bandwidth. Here's an example:

Example 1: Multiplier=9, FSB=200 > CPU Speed = 1800Mhz
Example 2: Multiplier=13.5, FSB=133 > CPU Speed = 1800Mhz

The first example will be a much higher performing setup even though the CPU speed is identical for both. Example 1 will have about 50% more memory bandwidth and Example 2. The reason we moved away from SDRAM with Athlon and also Pentium 4 is that the high clock speed these processors offer suffer from SDRAM's low bandwidth. Basically, the CPU waits idly until the northbridge feeds it some data. The first option was RDRAM 3 years ago, but all the bad press and hefty price premium compared to SDRAM made it unattractive to most. The solution was DDR RAM which used to be priced the same as SDRAM. Even DDR Ram doesn't offer enough bandwidth for the memory hungry AXP. That's why the hardcore guys all OC the FSB as high as they can and drop the multiplier to get the speed they want.

EDIT:
The naming conventions for RDRAM and DDR RAM are multiples of the FSB. RDRAM is quad pumped. That basically means that it can send data 4 times per clock tick. It also works on dual channels. That's why you see RDRAM referred to as PC800.

DDR RAM is double pumped. That's why you see DDR 266 when you POST at 133FSB. When you raise your FSB, you see multiples of the FSB your POSTing at. When I POST at 174FSB, I see DDR 348.

This would make it seem that RDRAM is more than twice as fast as DDR RAM, but that's not the case. The dual channel feature does not translate a direct doubling of the bandwidth. Also, RDRAM suffers from certain latencies that DDR RAM does not. If you can manage to get your DDR RAM up to about DDR400 (200FSB) it will perform better than RDRAM at PC800. That's why we drop the multiplier and OC the FSB.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 23rd July, 2002, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mookydooky


AMD says that the AXP will run fine up to 90C core temperature. I figure if you stay 10C or so below it, you should be fine. Most people who unlock actually do the opposite way that Pinky went. They do it to drop the multiplier so they can use a higher FSB and thus gain more memory bandwidth. Here's an example:

Example 1: Multiplier=9, FSB=200 > CPU Speed = 1800Mhz
Example 2: Multiplier=13.5, FSB=133 > CPU Speed = 1800Mhz

The first example will be a much higher performing setup even though the CPU speed is identical for both. Example 1 will have about 50% more memory bandwidth and Example 2. The reason we moved away from SDRAM with Athlon and also Pentium 4 is that the high clock speed these processors offer suffer from SDRAM's low bandwidth. Basically, the CPU waits idly until the northbridge feeds it some data. The first option was RDRAM 3 years ago, but all the bad press and hefty price premium compared to SDRAM made it unattractive to most. The solution was DDR RAM which used to be priced the same as SDRAM. Even DDR Ram doesn't offer enough bandwidth for the memory hungry AXP. That's why the hardcore guys all OC the FSB as high as they can and drop the multiplier to get the speed they want.
Thanks, I understand. I haven't investigated the multipliers currently available. Does unlocking provide this?
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 23rd July, 2002, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob


Thanks, I understand. I haven't investigated the multipliers currently available. Does unlocking provide this?
If you unlock your CPU correctly, you should have all the multipliers available to you, basically 6-13.5. If you do a bad job, you could get stuck with a multiplier you don't want, like 6 in which case you'll have to run your FSB at 300 (probably only possible with liquid nitrogen or something else like that) to get back to 1800Mhz.

Currently, your multiplier is 10.5. It it locked at that multiplier and nothing you do in the BIOS will change it.
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mookydooky


If you unlock your CPU correctly, you should have all the multipliers available to you, basically 6-13.5. If you do a bad job, you could get stuck with a multiplier you don't want, like 6 in which case you'll have to run your FSB at 300 (probably only possible with liquid nitrogen or something else like that) to get back to 1800Mhz.
OOOOh, sounds risky. I'm not known to have the steadiest of hands, either! I think that settles it. Do you know, offhand, what is the lowest multiplier available without unlocking on the 8K3A+?
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 23rd July, 2002, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mookydooky
Pink,

Just out of curiousity, how come you went for the multiplier OC instead of the FSB OC? Do you have a lot PCI devices?
Yes, and the WD harddrive doesn't like the 166+ range, so it's not worth the bother for me...

It's a 32.5cfm fan (not noisey at all, that I like).

It seems to be purring a notch lower than I hit earlier with the screen shot.
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob


OOOOh, sounds risky. I'm not known to have the steadiest of hands, either! I think that settles it. Do you know, offhand, what is the lowest multiplier available without unlocking on the 8K3A+?
There is only one multiplier available to you UB, and that is 10.5. Your CPU speed will be 10.5 x FSB. When you run at 166FSB, your CPU speed is 166x10.5=1743. The reason the best OCers get the lowest speed CPUs is that it allows them to up the FSB without bothering to unlock it, because it already has what they want, a low multiplier. It's also cheaper and gives them more room to OC since most likely it will run very close to the highest speed CPU currently out on the market, namely the 2200+ which runs at 1800Mhz.
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 03:42 AM
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I wouldn't be too concerned with a bad unlock. I've done it plenty of times... bad unlocks that is..

When it's bad for me, it just doesn't unlock and I only get the default, or I only have a few available multipliers that work, like now.. I have 10.5, 11.5, and 12.5. Fortunately for me, these are enough for me to play with(experiment) and be happy. I've never been stuck with a multiplier other than default. I've heard others have (but rarely), but maybe I've been lucky.
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mookydooky
UB, what kind of PSU are you using? Also, post a screenshot of your voltage readings from MBM again please.
Yes, my PSU is just over a year old. I'm not at all unhandy with a soldering gun, let's see what it is I need to do and I'll see if I'm willing to risk it. I may use this PSU on my next spare system with an ABIT board I still have.

Here are my voltages:
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob

Yes, my PSU is just over a year old. I'm not at all unhandy with a soldering gun, let's see what it is I need to do and I'll see if I'm willing to risk it. I may use this PSU on my next spare system with an ABIT board I still have.

Here are my voltages:

Your 5V line seems weak, especially if it dip below that when it fluctuates. Here's a link that describes the mod pretty well. Look for E-Blitz's post near the top third of the page. The mod he describes is for a 465Watt, but it works exactly the same for the 300Watt. From what I gather, it's pretty simple. I would have done it myself, but I had an Abit board and I used the Enermax for that.
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 03:18 PM
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http://members.optusnet.com.au/willz/mbm.JPG

green agoia 1700+ 0216 9
=P
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by willz
http://members.optusnet.com.au/willz/mbm.JPG

green agoia 1700+ 0216 9
=P
19C Ambient?!! Where are you, the North Pole?
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 04:01 PM
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australia to be exact =)

2x 80 mm exhaust fans..
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by willz
australia to be exact =)

2x 80 mm exhaust fans..
Ah, I see. It should be winter time there I believe, especially the southern part. I have 2 80cm exhaust fans too, but the best I'm getting lately is around 30C ambient. That's been the normal outside temperature lately in New York.
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mookydooky



Your 5V line seems weak, especially if it dip below that when it fluctuates. Here's a link that describes the mod pretty well. Look for E-Blitz's post near the top third of the page. The mod he describes is for a 465Watt, but it works exactly the same for the 300Watt. From what I gather, it's pretty simple. I would have done it myself, but I had an Abit board and I used the Enermax for that.
I see willz is even lower. I looked at the instructions, pretty sketchy!
Perhaps a larger PSU would be in order. What type would you suggest?
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob

I see willz is even lower. I looked at the instructions, pretty sketchy!
Perhaps a larger PSU would be in order. What type would you suggest?
Enermax makes very good PSUs. Their one weekness is the 5V line which until the advent of the 3 phase power solution, was not a problem. Holst, our resident guru for anything EPoX, recommends Sparkle. A 350Watt version should be good for you. They're about $45-$50 so they're not too expensive. I have a 300W Sparkle that works fine on one of my EPoX boards. Even at high OC, the 5V line never dips below 4.85V. I did however, tax the other lines in the form of too many USB devices and such. From the looks of things, you also have a lot of stuff, 3 drives, PCI stuff...so you probably need a little more than 300W just to be safe.
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 05:24 PM
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i would recommend a antec true power 380w
these things give excellent 5v rails, as the 3.3v and 5.0v are not shared so they all have their fair share of voltage
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 05:41 PM
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I see one at new egg for 75, but a 430 w true power for 73. What's the diff?
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Old 23rd July, 2002, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob
I see one at new egg for 75, but a 430 w true power for 73. What's the diff?
They both look good. 2A on the 5Vsb line is usually sufficient. I think though, that I would opt for the Sparkle. I see Willz 5V line dropping to 4.7 and that does not bode well for the 8K3A. It is however, somewhat expected seeing he has his CPU OCed to almost 2Ghz.
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