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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22nd August, 2002, 01:53 AM
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Yummy! 2600+

So what'd you guys think of all those yummy 2600+ benchmarks we have been exposed to today? Good, no?

I enjoyed the oc.com.au review available here: http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=84360

I sat up and took notice of the following quote taken from an e-mail sent out by AMD.

"AMD always takes an active approach to rebalance and improve speed paths throughout the processor core design."

Since every stage in the pipeline has one clock cycle to complete its task, a CPU's operating frequency is limited to speed of the slowest stage(in real time), or "the weakest link in the chain". It sounds to me like AMD made the slowest stage a bit faster to help thoroughbred scale. There are several ways to achieve this. It seems likely to me that they either reduced the gate length throughout the slowest stage(I suspect it is the decoder stage in the K7 design). Or they may have reduced the entire transistor size throughout the slow stage, a .13u/.09u hybrid perhaps.

Apparently AMD also added an additional layer of metal, and added additional decoupling capacitors.

I always knew AMD could make Thoroughbred work, but I'll admit they had me scared there for a bit!
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Old 22nd August, 2002, 02:34 PM
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Its great news Dimmreaper, however I would of prefered to have 512K of cache and a 166Mhz FSB. I suppose people will have to wait until the XP2700-2800+ to come on the scene.

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Old 22nd August, 2002, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul.K
Its great news Dimmreaper, however I would of prefered to have 512K of cache and a 166Mhz FSB. I suppose people will have to wait until the XP2700-2800+ to come on the scene.

Paul.K
AMD have been saving the extra cache for the Barton core, and thoroughbred was designed as a stepping stone to it, moving to the .13 micron core. It looks like the thoroughbred 'B' has the potential to move to a 166Mhz FSB, whether they'll save it for Barton will be another question.
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Old 22nd August, 2002, 06:14 PM
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People keep talking about a 2700+ core having 512K cache, I don't think it's too likely we'll ever see such an odd PRed CPU. More than likely we'll see a 2800+ with 512K and the faster bus. I'd suspect that we will see 3000+ and maybe 3200+ Bartons before too long. However, I'm not sure we will see Bartons at all this year. AMD has been planning to have UMC FAB 'em with a .13 CMOS process in tiawan next year for the longest time. If they move up the time table, they make Barton in Germany, and especially if they make it on an SOI process, it means that something has gone wrong with there Hammer plans.
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Old 22nd August, 2002, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dimmreaper
If they move up the time table, they make Barton in Germany, and especially if they make it on an SOI process, it means that something has gone wrong with there Hammer plans.
I have a different spin on this situation. I think the breakthrough with the TBred core has given AMD a bit of flexibility with Hammer. Think about it: A core that came to market in 1999 has been tweaked yet AGAIN to compete head-to-head with Intel's fastest processor. How many times has this happened now? Four? Five? How impressive would it be if a tweaked Barton core on a 333 FSB blows away even the forthcoming P4 3GHz by the end of this year? If the 333-FSB motherboard support is there, how devastating would a DUAL BartonMP 2XXX+ or 3XXX+ system be in the workstation or servers markets? My questions should be answered by Intel's reactions in the coming weeks. It should be interesting.

It's funny. Three days ago I was seriously worrying about AMD as a company. Now, the only worry I have is if I'll be able to use a 2XXX+ in my 8KHA+. LOL.
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Old 23rd August, 2002, 08:25 AM
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Speaking for myself, I was beginning to lose hope for AMD ever getting something good out the door in so far as the T-Breds were concerned. However somewhere in the recesses of my being there was the thought that they did it with the Palomino, why not the T-Bred......

All the benchmarks that point to better performance are directly related to the extra grunt achieved by increasing clock speed of the processor alone.

We know that in reality it is still the same design as what we are use to playing with. Although tweaked to achieve a higher clock speed. Also it is still on the same bus and basically the same speeds are used there. We also know that in reality the chipset's are a limiting factor when comparing to Intels offering. So when that considered, it has some very real potential. Once you unlock and run at a healthy 200+ fsb with aggressive settings on the ram and a good bios to take advantage of it all.

That said I will be lookingh forward to obtaining one.

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Last edited by LORD; 23rd August, 2002 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 23rd August, 2002, 09:50 AM
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I can't think of any AMD fans who aren't looking forward to obtaining a Tbred in the new stepping. Unfortunetly it's just vaporware at the moment. It'll probably make it out in to the world were we can purchase it within a month or so, but then only in the 2400+ and 2600+ ratings. Pitty we probably won't be able to get out hands on any in the 2000+ 2100+ and 2200+ ratings until October or later because the market is so glutted with the old Palominos and early Tbreds.
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Old 23rd August, 2002, 10:38 PM
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We can get the 2400+ and the 2600+ from monday in the UK, and we had it nearly 4 weeks after it was out last itme with the 2200+. THat was also a week or two after you US guys could get one.

I have a 2200+, it sucks ass, i'm getting a 2400+.

In all likely hood the 2400+ and teh 2600+ are identical except the multipler, they haven't had time to run loads of different qaulity ones. Jsut change the multi, as INtel often do, thats why theres clock so well.

The 2600+ just for dumb pre built guys to pay for in there new top of the line comps for £2000. THe 2400+ is where its at for us lot.

SO you know, in the UK the 2200+ is £135, the 2400+ is £157 and the 2600+ is £245. So add half again for US $. ITs just not worth the extra for the 2600+ as they should be clocking the same. ALso worth note is the mark up from the official amd prices to the retail price is only £20 on the 2400+ and £60 on the 2600+. SO the 2600+ should be cheaper somewhere as it should also have a £20 mark up.
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Old 23rd August, 2002, 10:40 PM
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OH yeah, and the 2800+ will be 333Mhz bus nothing else new , i'd guess mid october to early november release. ALso the 3000+ will be the new barton core, have the 333Mhz bus, the 512KB L2 cache and also use the newer barton/hammer SOI core manufacturing going on.
THey should be out just after the hammer, so mid Jan, early feb.



Just remember though, the 512KB is great and all, but us AMD guys already have a larger L1 cahce than P4 boys, have done for ages, and L1 cahce, AFAIK, is far faster and much more useful to have more of.
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Old 24th August, 2002, 01:39 AM
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But the larger the L1 cache is, the higher latency it has, and the slower it is. Intel went with a very small L1 cache because of the low latency, but the downside is that they need to have a much larger L2 cache to see any benefits to the low latency L1 cache. In other words, a big L1 cache offers more performance for the die area, where a small L1 cache when coupled with a large L2 cache can offer more peak performance. The P4 was designed to scale, and to live through several die shrinks, with 90nm lithography Intel will likely increase the L2 cache to 1MB, and then the benefits of the small fast L1 cache will shine through.

Hammer on the other hand is not capable of having more than 1MB of L2 cache, AMD plans to resort to a L3 cache if/when they need more cache.
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Old 24th August, 2002, 02:02 AM
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ANother misconception i wanted to point out was INtels totally false claimns to make the first chips from 0.9 micron sizes. ITs bogus, texas instuments or someone along those lines was making small quatities of 0.9micron chips for some reason or another.


I think it was even before INtel had hit 0.13 micron process. Just spreading the owrd on this. Knew about the texas instrument ones about a year ago, maybe more.

(unrelated i know, just telling random people)
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