AOA Forums AOA Forums AOA Forums Folding For Team 45 AOA Files Home Front Page Become an AOA Subscriber! UserCP Calendar Memberlist FAQ Search Forum Home


Go Back   AOA Forums > Hardware > Cooling & Temperature Monitoring


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 4.75 average.
  #61 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March, 2003, 04:56 AM
The Spyder's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,086
Send a message via AIM to The Spyder Send a message via MSN to The Spyder

A spray nozzel from a local Wilco for a SOLO backpack sprayer would work PERFECTLY!
__________________
~The Spyder~
I7 965, 6gigs, ASUS, 4870 X2, WD640 AALS Lian Li PC65
Nikon D700, 24-70, 70-200 2.8, SB 800x2
1993 Mazda Rx7 R1 345whp. 2008 Mazda 3 Hatch
AOA Team fah
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March, 2003, 05:08 AM
kat's Avatar
kat kat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: belding MI
Posts: 2,166

a what ,from a what, from where ,what??? tell me more
__________________
AOA Team fah

fer 47 years ive been seeking a balance in life
and I’ve been from one end to the other
i may be getting close
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March, 2003, 05:21 AM
The Spyder's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,086
Send a message via AIM to The Spyder Send a message via MSN to The Spyder

a mist sprayer nozel (which can be fitted to any pipe size) from a backpack garden/farm sprayer from a local farm supply store will work great!
I have a couple, but they are a flat, beam. I lost my mister~ there easy to get, i would pick ya one up, but no time
__________________
~The Spyder~
I7 965, 6gigs, ASUS, 4870 X2, WD640 AALS Lian Li PC65
Nikon D700, 24-70, 70-200 2.8, SB 800x2
1993 Mazda Rx7 R1 345whp. 2008 Mazda 3 Hatch
AOA Team fah
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #64 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March, 2003, 05:30 AM
kat's Avatar
kat kat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: belding MI
Posts: 2,166

well ill put that on my list of things to look for tomorrow thanks spyder

i also have to find a suitable tank to hold the water...i would like it if it were made from that chrome checker plate that you see tool box's for pick ups made from, i seen a small tool box at home depot a couple of weeks ago made from that stuff i might be able to modify it
__________________
AOA Team fah

fer 47 years ive been seeking a balance in life
and I’ve been from one end to the other
i may be getting close
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #65 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March, 2003, 11:12 PM
Holst's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Leics UK
Posts: 4,528

Ive been thinking about this, and I think the sprayer is a bad idea.

When your spraying in air then it looks fine...

But once you fit it to the block then all the air will be forced out..

That same nossel just isnt going to work the same spraying water into water..

I think that you would be better off with a less flow restrictive way of getting the water to the core...

High velocity and getting close to the core will be the best way.
Your current pump will work great if its high pressure.
__________________
No longer Epox Tech.

Best of luck in the future all my friends.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #66 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March, 2003, 11:54 PM
kat's Avatar
kat kat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: belding MI
Posts: 2,166

Quote:
Originally posted by Holst
Ive been thinking about this, and I think the sprayer is a bad idea.

When your spraying in air then it looks fine...

But once you fit it to the block then all the air will be forced out..

That same nossel just isnt going to work the same spraying water into water..

I think that you would be better off with a less flow restrictive way of getting the water to the core...

High velocity and getting close to the core will be the best way.
Your current pump will work great if its high pressure.

i looked at several spray nozzels today and they were all to big, so i ordered these two nozzle's this morning, should be here thursday these are the tightest low flow units that i could find, if it all works like im thinking... it will be low volume/high pressere system, tested the pump for an hour this morning at 100 psi no problems
Attached Thumbnails
Direct Die pics-image-0143.jpg  
__________________
AOA Team fah

fer 47 years ive been seeking a balance in life
and I’ve been from one end to the other
i may be getting close
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #67 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 12:26 AM
Random Nonsense's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: USS Great Britain, aircraft carrier, moored off the northwest coast of Europe
Posts: 3,340
Send a message via ICQ to Random Nonsense Send a message via Yahoo to Random Nonsense

idea, blow air into it too and all exits down the outlet pipe into an open reservoir?
__________________
Dual XP1600+ AGOIA "Y" @ 1875mhz WATERCOOLED 33C LOAD

Undergoing overhaul. Hard Locking to 13.5X multiplier for theoretical clockrate of 1944mhz 144mhz FSB

1X Duron 1.3 AHCLA "9" @ 1430mhz

1X Celeron 1000mhz

1X Pentium3 450 DECEASED

Folding Under AOA-UK for team 45!



"Mothers should love their babies, because then they grow up, everyone might hate them."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #68 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 01:12 AM
Holst's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Leics UK
Posts: 4,528

Air wont be as good as water.. even if there mixed up.

I just dont think that evaporative cooling will work, you would be better off with a bong to get the water temps down then flowing the water through the block in a more conventional manner.

Quote:
Originally posted by Random Nonsense
idea, blow air into it too and all exits down the outlet pipe into an open reservoir?
__________________
No longer Epox Tech.

Best of luck in the future all my friends.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #69 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 01:14 AM
kat's Avatar
kat kat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: belding MI
Posts: 2,166

Quote:
Originally posted by Random Nonsense
idea, blow air into it too and all exits down the outlet pipe into an open reservoir?
if the chamber fill's with water, then I'm thinking about putting a small air inlet here and make it a sealed system, this hopefully will prevent any evaporation which will lead to mineral deposit
Attached Thumbnails
Direct Die pics-image-0145.jpg  
__________________
AOA Team fah

fer 47 years ive been seeking a balance in life
and I’ve been from one end to the other
i may be getting close

Last edited by kat; 4th March, 2003 at 04:35 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #70 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 01:53 AM
Uncle Bob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: April 2002
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 3,734

Quote:
Originally posted by Holst
Air wont be as good as water.. even if there mixed up.

I just dont think that evaporative cooling will work, you would be better off with a bong to get the water temps down then flowing the water through the block in a more conventional manner.

I tend to agree with you, Holst.
This is indeed an interesting concept and it's obvious Kat, you are working out and through some real tough issues here.

I think if you actually have an outlet for the air to enter and leave, as would be necessary due to the pressure drop necessary to keep a spray effect, you are going to have a tank or vessel of some kind placed in-line after the chamber that will essentially be fed by gravity to create a place where the two phases (air, steam and liquid) can be separated before the fluid gets to the pump. This could create real problems unless the system is never moved from it's position.
On the other hand, if you make a closed loop, it will have to be free of air or your pump will cavitate and perish. If it is a closed system you have essentially a spray system of direct die cooling which, in theory, may be a real fine deal if you can remove the heat from the water after it comes in contact with the die. A simple radiator would be a fine start and I wonder what your thermal transfer properties would be. A bong, as Holst mentions, is another way of cooling the water and there are many plans available that all come out to the same common idea, evaporative cooling.
I think if you introduce air into the die chamber you may find that, because air is such a good insulator, that you will be defeating your purpose.
This is all just mindless theoretical ramblings from an old refrigeration guy. I operate cooling systems of liquid in the 18 million gallon range so I guess I have a smidgen of qualifications.
Just my .0002 cents. Glad to see this here. This is indeed a whole new direction at AOA and exciting to see! Keep at it, I think you may really on to something.
Ain't being sober fun??
__________________
Main Rig: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 1.0) cooled by the Monster Water Cooling Setup
HTPC One BIG Case Asus 8 CORE Monster
Current PC Count:
ASROCK: 1 * BIOSTAR: 1 * ASUS: 5 * CHAINTECH: 7 * GIGABYTE: 2 *IWILL: 1 * MSI: 3* TYAN: 2
175+ GHZ total power for PC Perspective Killer Frogs Climate Prediction Team as The Uncle B's!!
and more coming all the time!

I'm the Uncle your Aunt won't talk about. Go ahead and pull my finger!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 02:19 AM
Southern Man's Avatar
Member/Contributer
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Falling to Earth
Posts: 4,736

OK, after reading Bobs post The thought came to mind that if you were to run the system ay 100psi, when the liquid hit the nozzle and sprayed there would be a massive pressure drop, right? So... what if he was to use ammonia as the liquid. TxP=V so temp and pressure are proportional. If the pressure drops the temp drops as well. If you compress the liquid at 100psi, drop that pressure through the sprayer ( orifice tube effect ) would you not get the same principle that we used to use for refrigeration units 60 years ago?

More ramblings of a mad man. :nervous:
__________________
Then, as it was, then again it will be
Though the course may change,
rivers will always reach the sea.
----------------------------------------------

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 02:53 AM
kat's Avatar
kat kat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: belding MI
Posts: 2,166

This is the latest design idea (with every bodies suggestions in mind) hopefully I will find a suitable tank tomorrow so I can set it up like this ,(minus the fresh air line )this has worked fine so far with the nozzle stuck in a bigger hose to simulate being connected to the block the water quickly returns to the reservoir (kitchen sink)

And as for the sober thing ….im feeling better every day march 5..... 2 months dry as a bone and lovin it
Attached Thumbnails
Direct Die pics-image-0149.jpg  
__________________
AOA Team fah

fer 47 years ive been seeking a balance in life
and I’ve been from one end to the other
i may be getting close

Last edited by kat; 4th March, 2003 at 04:51 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 03:02 AM
kat's Avatar
kat kat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: belding MI
Posts: 2,166

UB i think i may have said somthing to mislead you instead of closed loop i should have said sealed system ...i dont believe that evaporation is somthing i want
__________________
AOA Team fah

fer 47 years ive been seeking a balance in life
and I’ve been from one end to the other
i may be getting close
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 11:04 AM
Holst's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Leics UK
Posts: 4,528

Remember that if you pressurise the liquid you will add heat...

So if you want to get a temperature drop when you drop the pressure... then you need to cool the pressurised liquid.

Although the effect will be very minimal... high pressure over the core will be better IMHO.

plus ammonia has a lower SHC than water so it wont be as effective... and you cant evaporate it as it will kill ya :P
__________________
No longer Epox Tech.

Best of luck in the future all my friends.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 12:16 PM
Random Nonsense's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: USS Great Britain, aircraft carrier, moored off the northwest coast of Europe
Posts: 3,340
Send a message via ICQ to Random Nonsense Send a message via Yahoo to Random Nonsense

The reason i suggested mix air in was so the water that evaporates has somewhere to go. much like a "bong" type cooler, just directly on the CPU. This really needs an open system tho. If you were to use deionised demineralised water you wont have any deposits build up.
__________________
Dual XP1600+ AGOIA "Y" @ 1875mhz WATERCOOLED 33C LOAD

Undergoing overhaul. Hard Locking to 13.5X multiplier for theoretical clockrate of 1944mhz 144mhz FSB

1X Duron 1.3 AHCLA "9" @ 1430mhz

1X Celeron 1000mhz

1X Pentium3 450 DECEASED

Folding Under AOA-UK for team 45!



"Mothers should love their babies, because then they grow up, everyone might hate them."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 03:26 PM
Uncle Bob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: April 2002
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 3,734

Quote:
Originally posted by Southern Man
OK, after reading Bobs post The thought came to mind that if you were to run the system ay 100psi, when the liquid hit the nozzle and sprayed there would be a massive pressure drop, right? So... what if he was to use ammonia as the liquid. TxP=V so temp and pressure are proportional. If the pressure drops the temp drops as well. If you compress the liquid at 100psi, drop that pressure through the sprayer ( orifice tube effect ) would you not get the same principle that we used to use for refrigeration units 60 years ago?

More ramblings of a mad man. :nervous:
Ammonia, although used extensively in refrigeration, freezing operations, is highly corrosive to copper and brass. Were any of it to spill, it would be disastrous for the motherboard and other components. I'm also not too sure what the consequences of direct contact with the die would be, but it can't be good. Ammonia is used as a refrigerant but really has poor thermal conductivity properties, especially compared to water.

Quote:
Originally posted by kat
This is the latest design idea (with every bodies suggestions in mind) hopefully I will find a suitable tank tomorrow so I can set it up like this ,(minus the fresh air line )this has worked fine so far with the nozzle stuck in a bigger hose to simulate being connected to the block the water quickly returns to the reservoir (kitchen sink)

And as for the sober thing ….im feeling better every day march 5..... 2 months dry as a bone and lovin it
I wonder how long the air line will take to become pressurized with the drawing you have...something to think about.
Almost 90 days sober, a wonderful thing and a fine accomplishment. Way to go, bud.


Quote:
Originally posted by kat
UB i think i may have said somthing to mislead you instead of closed loop i should have said sealed system ...i dont believe that evaporation is somthing i want
Yes, I think with either a closed or sealed system, that the high pressure of the liquid will seek a return through both the "air" and return lines. Something to look out for. Although there will be a pressure drop at the nozzle, unless there is a phase change (steam from liquid) the system may soon become pressured up unless there is relief somewhere which is only at the reservoir. I must say I'm not really sure here on this one and may be blowing smoke out my patootie.
At any rate, I look forward to the next installment with enthusiasm. Go for it Kat.
__________________
Main Rig: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 1.0) cooled by the Monster Water Cooling Setup
HTPC One BIG Case Asus 8 CORE Monster
Current PC Count:
ASROCK: 1 * BIOSTAR: 1 * ASUS: 5 * CHAINTECH: 7 * GIGABYTE: 2 *IWILL: 1 * MSI: 3* TYAN: 2
175+ GHZ total power for PC Perspective Killer Frogs Climate Prediction Team as The Uncle B's!!
and more coming all the time!

I'm the Uncle your Aunt won't talk about. Go ahead and pull my finger!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 03:42 PM
Holst's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Leics UK
Posts: 4,528

You defiantely want the rad after the pump and before the core.

That pump will probably be putting out a fair few watts itself, so its best to be rid o them before you hit the core.

I think the water from your pump will shoot up the air line due to the pressure, you will have to pressurise the air as well to get it to flow though. Althhough I recon the air will make it cool worse anyway....
__________________
No longer Epox Tech.

Best of luck in the future all my friends.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 4th March, 2003, 06:45 PM
Uncle Bob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: April 2002
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 3,734

Quote:
Originally posted by Holst
You defiantely want the rad after the pump and before the core.

That pump will probably be putting out a fair few watts itself, so its best to be rid o them before you hit the core.

I think the water from your pump will shoot up the air line due to the pressure, you will have to pressurise the air as well to get it to flow though. Althhough I recon the air will make it cool worse anyway....
I wonder if the radiator will withstand the pressure?
__________________
Main Rig: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 1.0) cooled by the Monster Water Cooling Setup
HTPC One BIG Case Asus 8 CORE Monster
Current PC Count:
ASROCK: 1 * BIOSTAR: 1 * ASUS: 5 * CHAINTECH: 7 * GIGABYTE: 2 *IWILL: 1 * MSI: 3* TYAN: 2
175+ GHZ total power for PC Perspective Killer Frogs Climate Prediction Team as The Uncle B's!!
and more coming all the time!

I'm the Uncle your Aunt won't talk about. Go ahead and pull my finger!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #79 (permalink)  
Old 5th March, 2003, 05:46 AM
kat's Avatar
kat kat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: belding MI
Posts: 2,166

Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob
I wonder if the radiator will withstand the pressure?

thats why i asked about trany coolers in Allen's thread I'm sure they are designed for high pressure just in case it needs to be on the high pressure side...

I'm fairly certain that the return line because its bigger will have very little pressure 1/8 inlet to 3/8 outlet remember I'm shooting for a low flow system 1/2 to 1 1/2 gallons per minute and the shear speed of the atomized water hitting(forced energy transfer) and being immediately replace is what will make this system efficient....well at least that what I'm hoping for
__________________
AOA Team fah

fer 47 years ive been seeking a balance in life
and I’ve been from one end to the other
i may be getting close

Last edited by kat; 5th March, 2003 at 06:09 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #80 (permalink)  
Old 5th March, 2003, 08:18 AM
Uncle Bob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: April 2002
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 3,734

Quote:
Originally posted by kat



thats why i asked about trany coolers in Allen's thread I'm sure they are designed for high pressure just in case it needs to be on the high pressure side...

I'm fairly certain that the return line because its bigger will have very little pressure 1/8 inlet to 3/8 outlet remember I'm shooting for a low flow system 1/2 to 1 1/2 gallons per minute and the shear speed of the atomized water hitting(forced energy transfer) and being immediately replace is what will make this system efficient....well at least that what I'm hoping for
I'd use a rad rated at 1.5 times the highest expected line pressure. That's what we do in my industry and we deal with hot Propane and Butane vapors! If it's MAWP (maximum allowable working pressure) is say 500psig, they are rated for 750 psig and hydrotested to 1500 psig. You needn't be so picky, but you should feel confident with w 150% over rating.
__________________
Main Rig: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 1.0) cooled by the Monster Water Cooling Setup
HTPC One BIG Case Asus 8 CORE Monster
Current PC Count:
ASROCK: 1 * BIOSTAR: 1 * ASUS: 5 * CHAINTECH: 7 * GIGABYTE: 2 *IWILL: 1 * MSI: 3* TYAN: 2
175+ GHZ total power for PC Perspective Killer Frogs Climate Prediction Team as The Uncle B's!!
and more coming all the time!

I'm the Uncle your Aunt won't talk about. Go ahead and pull my finger!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pics of my current setup and some new toys (Big PICS!) TitaniumSOF AMD Motherboards & CPUs 13 4th June, 2003 03:11 AM
Direct Die Watercooling Darkest Cooling & Temperature Monitoring 30 30th March, 2003 11:52 PM
What's Up With Direct Die Watercooling? DistantHorizon Cooling & Temperature Monitoring 12 9th December, 2002 02:10 AM
Jet Direct 500 Samuknow Mobile Devices and Networking 2 4th June, 2002 01:01 AM
Direct duct to my CPU Garfield Cooling & Temperature Monitoring 23 1st June, 2002 07:21 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:25 AM.


Copyright ©2001 - 2010, AOA Forums
Don't Click Here Don't Click Here Either

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0