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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 17th August, 2004, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
what is folding, i hear about it, but dont know much about it
is it like prime 24HRs or something
or just let it run night/day never turn her off
I thought you'd never ask!!! You can read all about it here for starters. If you have any more questions please feel free to ask.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 18th August, 2004, 02:06 AM
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made a new hold down.
a shelve fram brace, just cut it at the 90 joiin and the holes matched the layout, fancy the ods ey
and this is me iposting at xtreme at 2724MHZ
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 27th August, 2004, 03:45 PM
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i got 5 50mm x 50mm 25mm blocks machined to base 15mm and top 5mm (as small as i could get it)
the holes will be 12mm deep with a 3mm base using either a 3.97mm or 4.76mm drill bit, depends on how close i can drill the holes
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Old 27th August, 2004, 04:50 PM
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R290 is a sweet refridgerent glad to see your not scared of it
It is abit too cold for use in home / commercial freezers though when mixed with butane (cant remember its code off the top of my head) It is an ideal refrigerant for food freezers and such and is currently becomeing widespread across the globe apart from America and Japan which seem to be afraid of it as it can be used as an explosive by terrorists. On its own it is perfectly safe.

Around here somewhere I have the data tables for it if they'd be any use for you.

Be carefull that your temperatures dont get too hot, so that fluid ends up in the wrong places. (Liquid in your compressor etc)
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Old 27th August, 2004, 05:49 PM
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i have also found a place that is going to make a steel flex hose and braise it up with their oxy set like this and a copper piece at the other end so all i have to do is braise coper tube to copper tube, piece of cake.
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Old 27th August, 2004, 05:56 PM
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no screw fittings at all so no leaks

i just ordered this cheap dual sensor to glue top/ bottom of evap
and another spare for other measurements
it only goes to -40c, if i can get that ill be amazed
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 28th August, 2004, 08:17 PM
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Looking good, Kayl. How wide will the channels be?
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Old 30th August, 2004, 03:16 AM
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channels are about 4.7mm wide and 12mm deep, 3mm base and 5mm lid

keithwalton, i would only use r290 in a small system, my uncle made a generator freezer with a car compressor and was going to use r290, but was advised against it (took 1kg) so he used r404a instead.
the bad thing about the bbq grade is that there is a chemical added to the bottle in manufacture to give it that smell, and also the r290 is only 95% pure, best results need the Lab or Instrument grade but its not cheap stuff.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 30th August, 2004, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
keithwalton, i would only use r290 in a small system, my uncle made a generator freezer with a car compressor and was going to use r290, but was advised against it (took 1kg) so he used r404a instead.
Most refrigeration guys advise against using it because of the danger of explosion. In point of fact, R290 under pressure has a higher ignition point that R134a, meaning that R134a is actually slightly more dangerous. In addition, even at 1 bar, the mixture of R290 and air required to achieve an explosion is rather narrow and rather difficult to maintain for any extended period of time. Further, consider that there are a number of vehicles on the road or in service (including a LOT of fork lifts) that use propane or butane as their fuel source, and that the reported incidence of explosions is either at or near 0.

Keith, Butane is R606 and Iso-Butane is R606a.

IMNSHO, the only thing keeping R290 and other hydrocarbon refrigerants from being used is that the chemical companies making them (and the refrigeration industry in general), have far too much to gain from keeping things they way they are. Consider that the change-over from R12 to R134a involves changing hoses and other components, as well as the gas and lubricant, where changing from R12 to R290 involves changing exactly one thing; the gas.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 30th August, 2004, 05:29 PM
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You hit the nail on the head there Gizmo, my point was hydrocarbon based refridgerents on the whole are safe especially in static uses. (you wouldnt want to use it in your car air con system anyway).
To get the stuff to explode it has to be at pressure, so inside the system is the only chance you'll have sufficent pressure for an explosion. It would require an igntion point in the system to make it go up and this is a risk when changing refridgerent types but only a small one as it'll need oxygen as well somthing it doesnt have in the closed loop system.

As far as i'm aware the refridgerent 'care 30' is a butane, propane mix (bout 50/50 i think) that is rather good and is becoming widespread in the eu / australia for new refigeration equipment, it just happend to have been developed at the cryogenics lab at my uni google'in for care 30 refrigerant should find you some info on it.
I don't think there has been a single case of fires / explosions being caused by it, yet uptake over the pond is almost nil. It sucks to hear what's stopping it is manufacturers make more money on somthing else so why bother.

If i was to cool a cpu with the stuff i'd use care 50 though that stuff is majourly cold (boiling point of -49C abs 1.0 bar) compared to propane's -42C for comparison R12 (cfc) is -30C and R134a (hfc) is -26C, Care 30 (hc) is -31C

Might be a tad expensive and difficult to get hold of not to mention you'll prob need a pro to fill it
K
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 30th August, 2004, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwalton
You hit the nail on the head there Gizmo, my point was hydrocarbon based refridgerents on the whole are safe especially in static uses. (you wouldnt want to use it in your car air con system anyway).
Actually, they did quite a lot of research into this in Oz about 4 years ago, and the conclusion was that it was at least as safe as R134a, I believe.

Do a google on 'australia insurance air condition propane' and you should turn up some interesting stuff.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 31st August, 2004, 02:27 AM
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thanx since its being used in austalia i might be able to get some that would be real nice.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10th September, 2004, 06:52 AM
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i build a system start to finish in a day
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10th September, 2004, 06:57 AM
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its a 1HP rotary comrpessor and so far around -45c idle loaded -40c prime with propane
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Last edited by kayl; 13th October, 2004 at 08:15 AM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10th September, 2004, 07:21 AM
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Front page Kayl!http://www.aoaforums.com/frontpage/index.php

Thank you!
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10th September, 2004, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwalton
R290 is a sweet refridgerent glad to see your not scared of it
It is abit too cold for use in home / commercial freezers though when mixed with butane (cant remember its code off the top of my head) It is an ideal refrigerant for food freezers and such and is currently becomeing widespread across the globe apart from America and Japan which seem to be afraid of it as it can be used as an explosive by terrorists. On its own it is perfectly safe.

Around here somewhere I have the data tables for it if they'd be any use for you.

Be carefull that your temperatures dont get too hot, so that fluid ends up in the wrong places. (Liquid in your compressor etc)
thanx for that info, i have got meself a data tables for r290
what do you mean by Be carefull that your temperatures dont get too hot
you mean too much r290 getting liquid return suction line?
i measure temp bottom of compressor to watch this, latest compressor has a accumulator to catch xtra refrigerant and let it boil off.


ps front page im spoilt
i think its time for a beer now its friday



edit i know what ya mean now its so easy to burn oil have to watch compressor temps
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Last edited by kayl; 13th October, 2004 at 08:22 AM.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 13th October, 2004, 08:15 AM
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i did an oil change on the compressor today.
glass of wine anyone
i think it deserves a beer instead though

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=17669

and this is what i replaced it with, i think this was the cause of bad temps.
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=17670

i added a access valve to the compressor to make it easy to change the oil.
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=17671
i was lucky with this rotary ass it already had a closed copper pipe in the top of the compressor
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=17673
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=17672
and this was my result.
top temp is dd block at idle and bottom temp is temperature 6' before the accumulator.
i redid the insulation on the dd block also and remounted the temperature sensor as well.
my temperature sensor only reads down to -50c anything below and it reads error.


http://xtremesystems.org/forums/atta...chmentid=17679
i ran prime for 15mins and it held -48c :toast:
at idle its over 50c (but not much it flashes back to -49.4c every now and again
i have had the computer running now for about 2hrs non stop and the compressor temp is slowly rising its at 77c now
and idle accumulator temp is -41.5c
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