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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 25th November, 2004, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeroHouR
So what are the average heat dissipations of radiators?
Depends on the radiator and temperature differential! It's a bit like asking what the average engine size of a car is, if you catch my meaning.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 25th November, 2004, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel ~
Aedan was wrong? The foundations of my world are crumbling!! ":O}
Oh, I'm frequently wrong. I was labouring under the impression that the radiator was not the only govening component.

On the other hand, if Kaitain had got his act together here earlier, I wouldn't be trying to provide understanding to others on this topic!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 25th November, 2004, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeroHouR
sorry im a computer tech major...and only in my second year of study...I don't have a firm gasp on ANYTHING yet.
Such is the joy of being a student - it gets better when you get into industry and end up junking most of what you learned at degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by XeroHouR
I just got through enthalpy changes in chemestry(btw I was pretty good at it ). So what are the average heat dissipations of radiators? I'm using a heatercore, I think its one from a 77 Bonneville, its larger than 2 120mm fans on all sides, its a lot of surface area...I guess its just wishful thinking to hope that just water would cool such a pelt and give the kind of low temps I think would help the prescott...but I'm not beat yet, I'm gunna work something out.
Without knowing the specifications of the radiator, I couldn't even begin to guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
Oh, I'm frequently wrong. I was labouring under the impression that the radiator was not the only govening component.
The radiator will (usually) determine the final temperature of the system - it's rate limiting. One would still have to calculate the contribution of every part to get an accurate figure though. A back of the envelope calculation can be done if the heat load (did I see 1.3kW?), water flowrate (it's on the pump) and fluid capacity of the TEC-block are known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
On the other hand, if Kaitain had got his act together here earlier, I wouldn't be trying to provide understanding to others on this topic!
Hmph
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 25th November, 2004, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
Oh, I'm frequently wrong. I was labouring under the impression that the radiator was not the only govening component.

On the other hand, if Kaitain had got his act together here earlier, I wouldn't be trying to provide understanding to others on this topic!
Thanks A! I'll tear up my suicide note and make a better resolve! I blame you for this Kaitain!!":O}
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 27th November, 2004, 09:55 AM
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ahh yea, back of the envelope calculations... thats what I was looking for....


on another note. I got together with my EE friend, and he said that its impossible for these 360W and 437W pelts to run at 24V >18Amps. Just looking at the numbers made him get all upset about pulling too many amps through the wires("at that guage they'd just catch fire"). So we came to the conclusion that the on pelt amperage listed as over 18 is basically the max it could take before it would be toast.

He got me a powersupply to a printer his company made, it has 12V+/- and he said hes gunna splice them for me, so thats 24V and he says its got the kinda flow and energy to run the pelt. So I guess the only thing left to do is figure out if my sys can keep the pelt cool so it runs around 0oC and then the big two...
1.) Finding out if I have the lugnuts to actually do this to my beloved processor...

2.) If I can keep it from my g/f long enough so that I can save up and buy her a real pretty ring that she can stare at all the time, in hopes of missing my box
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 27th November, 2004, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo

That Dominator looks nice, but you are talking almost 700w of heat at maximum output JUST FOR THE PELT. It should definitely be able to cool your cpu, but it wouldn't be cheap.
If you had that running 24/7 I think the wheel in the electric meter would spin so fast that it would create it's own gravitaional field and start sucking matter from all around it until not even light could escape!

OK, on a serious note, whoever pays the electric bill would not be happy. a home brew phase change would be better and cheaper abd cheaper to run.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 27th November, 2004, 04:49 PM
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I came in late on this thread, but I was not surprised to see it was Aedan who pointed out that you can't pump cold.

Basically cooling systems become more eficiant the higher the Delta T between the cooling fluid and the fluid to be cooled. Your cooling fluid is rather ineficiant (air) but you can push a lot of it across your heat exchanger.

The tempiture of your fluid to be cooled will continue to rise until there is suficiant delta T to the cooling fluid that the heat exchanger becomes efficiant enough to handle the heat load. That or the water in your waterblock flashes to steam and melts a hole in your vinyl hoses and then sprays hot watter all over your system.

I still recomend phase change. Just buy a small 5cu' freezer and stick your computer in it. Or if you live in Canada, stick your computer outside your window (Thank you Mrs Nash!)
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 27th November, 2004, 04:57 PM
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ROFL only in canada :P if I did that at school I'd be short a computer in about 3 minutes. The school would be footing the bill on this one. I'm still theorizing the use of a pelt so I am working off the highest rated one out. I was wondering how strong the pelt would have to be to boil the water in the system, assuming that you weren't using any addatives to the water, I'll prolly spend my chem lecture on monday doing that 8-)

I need a more compact method of cooling since I have to transport my PC a lot, when I move into my apt next year after the summer I can finally try those crazy deep freeze experiments I've always been wanting to do. I've seen lots of people already implementing the 360W one, on just water no less, I'm in communication with one on how he's dealing with it. The 437W one might just be a touch too much, even just to play with lol.

I've been looking at using refridge/AC stuff to cool my computer, anyone have any links to do it yourself phase change type stuff, using parts from a fridge or something?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 27th November, 2004, 05:19 PM
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You could try

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=713&s=1

or

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=714&s=1

or do a google search.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 27th November, 2004, 08:22 PM
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As no one else has said it. I will, I've yet to use a system (Pelts, Vopochill) that can keep condensation out for more than a few months at a time. For me they are way more trouble than the are worth OTHER than as a hobbyists toy...

Had fun with them! But grew tired off maintaining them. This was BEFORE one needed a Electric sub station to run them...

For me, pelt are no longer a viable solution to cooling. They simply aren't any longer suitable for the task, no longer eloquent as it were. But that's just me...":O}
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 27th November, 2004, 11:28 PM
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isn't that all we all are, hobbyists?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 27th November, 2004, 11:47 PM
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At lest in part...":O}
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 28th November, 2004, 09:20 AM
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Well as far as day-to-day but still extreme cooling situations, I think that a produced pelt device(like the swiftech mcw50+t and the dangerden maze4+t) is a VERY viable solution as long as you take PSU into account. The Swiftech is definatly easy just rub silicon on the bottom of thier prefitted neoprene and bam you're up and running(of course theres more to it than that...but you could say that and not be lying). Even the maze4 could be put together by an 8th grader(no offense but this seems like a valid range).

I think that GPU's are still at a point that the 80W pelt can handle it, until you get to the 6800's which are bearly too hot and they push into out of the safe zone of the pelt, and overall you get less performance. In its own loop 6800GT+ could be REALLY well cooled by a properly powered pelt(potential problem in the preceeding), this pelt being the upgraded pelt, from 80W as they used to use, upgrade it to the 172W potted, in 40x40 which is what the 80W was in too.

I'm sure if I upgrade the pelt on my 6800GT AND I get my powersupply(which will definatly be able to power even my dominator project AND my 172W pelted video card projects. Of course seperate loops are a big must...I'm just not sure if I wanna have 2 pumps...2 rads...etc. I have other plans in my future lan box to have an 80W or even 172W, if I some how get the guts to do it,on the video card, w/e it would be, prolly a 5900XT golden sample..or I might go ATI and freeze them. The supporting CPU COULD but prolly wont be pelt cooled, tbred(cheap) on a good but cheap mobo. The ram eh might as well drop $100 for some TCCD ram right?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 30th November, 2004, 02:40 AM
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alright how does a second rad in the loop effect temps? lets say in a theoretical setup I have a pump with 11 of head, like the eheim 1250(i think thats what it puts out) and then I go rad-cpu-rad-gpu-res-pump-initialrad I've read the pressure drop would effect the performance to where you get higher temps if added in the same loop. Is this true? I'd think splitting up a hot processor and a hot GPU would be mighty hard to make up for in heat, esp with only flow changing. Maybe the hotter the GPU and CPU are the more difference the two rads would make?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 3rd December, 2004, 06:44 AM
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ok, bump for that question and this one. Lets say I COULD run this 473W pelt,(looped by itself with a LARGE heatercore) only I wanted to try it out on a JUIHB tbred...would this damage the tbred? like...would it get too cold for the proc? I kinda wonder what it would do.
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Old 3rd December, 2004, 04:14 PM
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Depends on how cold is 'cold'. Generally you don't want to start the device at temps below 0 °C, because thermal expansion resulting from the heat generated by the current inrush could fracture the crystal latice and destroy the device.

Once you've got it running, though, you should be able to get it quite cold (like into the sub 100 °K range) without hurting it.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2004, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeroHouR
alright how does a second rad in the loop effect temps? lets say in a theoretical setup I have a pump with 11 of head, like the eheim 1250(i think thats what it puts out) and then I go rad-cpu-rad-gpu-res-pump-initialrad I've read the pressure drop would effect the performance to where you get higher temps if added in the same loop. Is this true? I'd think splitting up a hot processor and a hot GPU would be mighty hard to make up for in heat, esp with only flow changing. Maybe the hotter the GPU and CPU are the more difference the two rads would make?
Why not have 2 cooling loops.

#1 Res>pump>cpu>gpu>Res

and then

#2 Res>pump>Rad1>Rad2>Res
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 5th December, 2004, 06:01 PM
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I've considered two loops, but your config is a little wierd, Ill bit, what was your logic behind it? Why not just go from each rad to each block, with a powerful pump?
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Old 13th December, 2004, 04:17 AM
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bump see if you'll answer the last one and post a new one.

I think I went from wanting to put a 360W pelt on the CPU, to leaving it water cooled(since I think the CPU wouldnt' gain a ton from it....) and upgrade the pelt on the 6800. To do this I have to use a 172W pelt. So I was thinking about running 2 loops, because I didn't want the heat of the pelt warming up the CPU. Here is my question though:

Would it be best to use 1 Eheim 1250 pump, 1 dual 120mm heatercore, 1 120mm heater core, cpu block, gpu block, res. Or should I just put my 1048 into the GPU loop and add the 1250 pump for the cpu(actualy run two seperate loops).
In the first config I would plan to run a rad before each block, but only one pump. Space premitting I COULD feasibly run the second choice, but I hope that a 1250 could give enough head to power this whole big loop.

Ideas?
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Old 15th December, 2004, 02:11 AM
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noone? wheres all my heat, physics, and flow buffs?
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