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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 19th March, 2005, 08:54 PM
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You could just look for a second-hand portable air cooler and duct the cold air in to your case. I say second-hand because they are expensive to buy.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 19th March, 2005, 08:54 PM
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Every cooler in existance is a heat pump, heat energy is moved from one place to another. Usually you have a medium in which you dump heat to, the thermal capacity of such medium is usually regarded to be large enough that no matter how much heat you dump into it. Its temperature remains the same. This is nearly allways the atmosphere.

There are a few ways you could create a colder than atmospheric temperature intake. None are particularly sustainable nor efficent. The first is via a pelter device, this is however rather useless and is the basis on which mini fridges just about work.

You'd require a pair of heatsinks and a thermoelectric pelter. You apply power to the pelter and it moves heat from oneside of the pad to the other. Because they are so inefficent you'd have to disspate alot more heat on the hot side than you will get cooling potential on the cold side. Needless to say you can cool a pint of beer with one!
But for general airflow purposes theres just too much energy in the air to get appreciable cooling.

Thats a rather technilogical solution, a far more crude one is to have a grid of tubes to which you fill with say water. You'd put this contraption in the freezer where heat will be removed from it so all the water turns to ice. When this is then exposed to atmospheric conditions it has a lower energy value so absorbes heat in order to return to equlibrium.
This method does work and has two benefits, it reduces temperature but it also greatly reduces humidity. (Cheap air conditioners use this method) you'd need a catch tray to pick up the water removed from the air, you'd also go through a lot of ice a day!

Phase change cooling is the principle behind all modern fridges / freezers, air conditioning units and cryo applications.
It is essentially a heat pump as well, You start off with a gas at rtp, you compress said gas up to a higher pressure, this increases its temperature, you then pass this gas through a heat exchanger where because it is at higher than atmospheric temperature energy flows out of gas you then pass it through a throttle to drastically reduce the pressure back to atmospheric pressure. Because the gas is at a lower energy state than it was before it turns into a liquid.
You then pass this cool liquid through whatever you want to cool where it absorbs heat energy and returns to the compressor (pump) to start the cycle all over again.

The coolent fluid you use in this is a special chemical usually HFC's (used to be cfc's)
which have properties specific to how much cold you want to go.

I'm sure google will be able to provide you with a more indepth explanation + pictures.


Somthing i forgot to mention its a law of thermodynamics that energy allways flows from hot to cold.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 19th March, 2005, 09:15 PM
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I know that it goes from hot to cold, everybody says it rises but this appears so because cold air is usually higher up than hot air. Eventually though, this air becomes hot. In principle, this explains global warming. This afternoon, i decided to rip open an old faulty floppy drive, i used only the base, one fan and some electrical tape. I just bent the sides inwards, jammed the fan in, taped it down to be sure and then stuck it so that it is taking cold air from the front of my case, all the way along the bottom of the case to the back. It's actually working quite well and quiet. It's under my hard drives so it's blowing a slight breeze over them as well. I can tell it's cooler by feeling the window as acrylic becomes quite hot when a cathode is near it, it's about 50% cooler now which is always a good thing. I will think of another cooler thought that uses a liquid or gel as the airs coolant. You gave me an idea with pipes so i'll discuss that another time.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 19th March, 2005, 09:38 PM
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hot air rises because it expands, so the same volume of hot air weighs less than the same volume of cold air, once hot air reaches high enough in the atmosphere, ir radiates that heat back into space becoming cool again and so descends back down again as cool air, this is the basic cause of weather, high and low pressure air movements.
Global warming is due to increased amounts of carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxides in the atmosphere, some from natural sources, mostly from man made, and this acts as an insulating blanket preventing the warm air from cooling down.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 23rd March, 2005, 08:00 AM
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Love your idea.. evaporative cooling on the fins. I'm a designer so here goes. Buy a waterfall kit. Scrap the rocks. Build a plaster
cooling tower like 3 Mile Island. Put the cooling core in the tower
with the waterfall pump wetting the core and a red 80 mm fan over it inside the tower or more traditional, just an acrylic tube
with a hidden strobe light in the base stopping the droplets, as they fall to the core. That will be $5021.00 Please.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 23rd March, 2005, 01:59 PM
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Phase change cooling solutions are basically a refridgerator with the cooling power concentrated in a block of metal that sits atop the cpu, or whatever you choose to cool. Typically systems can produce 150-200w of cooling power which will take even the most overclocked cpu's to below ambient.

Basic operation if im not mistaken is a compressor compresses the coolant, pipes take this liquified coolant to the site of cooling where it is condensed, absorping energy, the gasified coolant then returns to the compressor where it is recompressed. The compression releases the energy.

edit, gah, you guys got there before me.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 24th March, 2005, 02:21 AM
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hehe, phase change cooling as i mentioned is not restricted to just cpu cooling thats a rather novelty market. minimum temperature atainable is determined by the refrigerants boiling temperature. and heat absorbtion rate is determined by mass flow rate again of refrigerant.
Efficency of a phase change cooler is measured in terms of 'cop' or 'coefficent of performance' which is the amount of work energy put into the system (via compresor) / potential cooling power.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 7th April, 2005, 10:51 AM
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right, ok, now i'm just plain confused. And tired. Anyway, i've decided to build a watercooler from a plastic tub, some silicon tubing and a pump from a fish tank filter (underwater). Cost: about £10. It's just going to have the tubing woven round the graphics card heatsink as it's a SiS. It's also going to be woven around the CPU heatsink as it's a pentium 2 with a big heatsink that gets very hot. It's that Server/folding rig (which will have to wait until i get broadband (god knows when) because i don't have a lan card and i can't be bothered to get one ATM).Anyway, it will keep it cool as it does get as hot as my 1.4Ghz Duron (which i may be upgrading to a 2.6Ghz in a few weeks for about £15). I just need to know my mobos limit.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 7th April, 2005, 11:37 AM
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I'm not sure that will work very well, as silicon tubing is reasonably good at insulating.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11th April, 2005, 02:38 AM
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Alright already. If plain old liquid cooling is not enough. Throw your radiator into a bucket of ice with a drain valve at the bottom. When you get tired of that, get a vapochill. You have too much free time on your hands!! You are thinking way too much on this.

WZ
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 16th April, 2005, 01:18 PM
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why is there no case out there were it could blow cold air inside the case in puts 15c air or something like that it could be on the top of the pc 1 in vent 1 out vent though the air con system no other vents.???

there are air dryers around we used them in work. if i ever win alot of money i would look into makeing air con cases theres away around everthing!!!
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 29th July, 2005, 03:47 AM
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New way to cool things off

I was really interested in what Skool H8tr was saying about ethanol and I stumbled upon a new idea of cooling your processor as well as purging my lower intestine. You see, it happened one day when I farted in front of the air conditioner and it dawned on me. The methane in farts actually made the AIR cooler!!! Not to mention purfumed the air with a sweet smelling aeroma... Through evaporation, if I could harness the power of my flatulents and cool the radiator would this have any effect on my popularity in this forum?
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 29th July, 2005, 03:57 AM
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No, but seriously.... I did have a question on a system I am building. This is my first water system and I've been researching for about 4 months now. Since Water cooling is affected by the ambient, and I live in a very hot area (105F), would the effects of an A/C blowing over a radiator w/fans (outside the case) build condensation inside the case from the extra cooled water? Is this a rather ineffective method? Would I have to duct dehumidified air from the A/C into the case ambient to balance condensation effect? I'm not looking for subzero temps, just something to keep the temps fairly low.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 4th August, 2005, 12:01 AM
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Well, the ethanol idea "sounds cool," but I'm a o-chem major and what your dealing with is heat absorption causing a phase change. This could work, although u would need to fab a condenser to bring the ethanol back into a liquid around ambient temps before returning it to the block on the CPU. It would actually be very unaffective because u would require a water cooling system to run the condenser efficiently enough. Which poses a number of problems...


CPU heat -> Cu block -> ethanol evaporation -> condenser -> water -> case temp.

So not only are u dealing with a ton of power consuption, but also the heat from the CPU will end up in the case, which can only be pumped out by way of sys fans. Ethanol is also not the best choice in terms of conductivity and stability. Dealing with a flammable organic solvent of relatively low density isnt best when trying to remove heat.

Also your largest problem with ethanol arises in the fact thats its HYGROSCOPIC!!! This means it readily absorbs water from the environment, so unless this thing is 100% air tight, your going to be changing the pys props of the liquid when the ethanol passes through the condenser or even just from the environment and making it fail as a cooler sooner or later... = dead CPU w/o warning. U may begin running Everclear (96%) through this contraption, but sooner or later your CPU is going to be drinking captain morgan's and at that point we all know your doomed!

If your dead set on doing this, id say try to get ur hands on some 2-butanone, its very similar properties as ethanol, but is not HYGROSCOPIC, has a higher liquid/vapor density and specific heat. The BP only like 1C above so, its still quite effective.

Although im building a new "water cooling" system myself and basically im going to use D2O (heavy water or DEUTERIUM OXIDE) instead of water, the properties are basically identical expect a higher specific heat, BP and density, making the cooling better. This should drop my temps 10-15% which will be great for the X2.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 4th August, 2005, 12:48 AM
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Hmm, D2O, canny idea, how exactly are you getting hold of that?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 4th August, 2005, 02:56 AM
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I have access through my university (Oregon State U) from the chemlab and no i don't mean steal some...

www.chemfinder.com has and links to any organic u would ever need, search under heavy water or DEUTERIUM OXIDE.

The unfortunate thing is due to the inefficient manufacturing process, as Hydrogen is given a neutron increasing its mass, (hard to do) ur prolly looking at about $70-100 (ouch!) for the heavy water u would need for a standard water cooling system. Deuterium unlike hydrogen's second isotope Tritium, is stable and has an indefinite lifespan, so u shouldnt require any specific papers other then the green stuff.

To the hardcore like myself, this means only more Mhz!

Far as i know will be the first heavy water cooled system! w00t
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 4th August, 2005, 06:59 AM
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Evaporative cooling systems work pretty well. They are basically the same principal as a nuclear cooling tower.

You just need some 4 inch PVC pipe with a shower head on top and a fan blowing through the waterfall, they are cheap to build but be sure to check the water in your resevoir often.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 17th August, 2005, 09:04 PM
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Man this guy is far out. Just get a water kit like the rest of us LOL
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 17th August, 2005, 09:11 PM
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I remember a few years back where people were experimenting with water cooling towers, basically they had a watercooling rig, and in the loop they would have a large piece of piping, at the top a shower head where the water from the loop would be sprayed, in the middle a fan, and at the bottom the water was collected again and sent back to the loop.

This would allow the water to actually go below ambient temps thanks to the evaporating process but obviously the water levels would gradually decrease and it meant having a large, external loop.
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Old 17th August, 2005, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamGarside
I remember a few years back where people were experimenting with water cooling towers, basically they had a watercooling rig, and in the loop they would have a large piece of piping, at the top a shower head where the water from the loop would be sprayed, in the middle a fan, and at the bottom the water was collected again and sent back to the loop.

This would allow the water to actually go below ambient temps thanks to the evaporating process but obviously the water levels would gradually decrease and it meant having a large, external loop.
This is the principle power station water cooling towers traditionally used. They've fallen out of favour in recent years due to the problems of Legionnaire's disease... To improve cooling, power plant cooling towers have a sort of wooden scaffold on them. This ensures the water forms a surface and actually evaporates, rather than just being entrained in the airflow and blowing out of the top of the stack.

You can do the same with a bunch of large diameter plastic washers.

If you build one of these, you'll need to keep it dosed with some sort of biocide, or change the water every 2 days.
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