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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 18th October, 2005, 04:41 AM
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How to tame the beast?

Uh, all things aside, i love being able to just pop a part out when benching, I really needs me a case. Problem is, every case I put my machine in makes it overheat.

These Nvidia videocards, have to be some of the worst cards i have ever owned. Rendering quality issues aside, i've never had a video solution that made my system so hot i needed to UNDERCLOCK my system to get it stable.


But this is no joke. I cannot deal with this heat. what makes it worse, is that there is a problem with the temperature sensors in these cards that prevents me from modifying the cooling to be able to deal with the heat, as because anything lower, and the mis-programming of the sensor, or the missing register, causes throttling when idle. This is similar to the coldbug found on some Athlon64 cpu's...EXACTLY.

The problem with the A64's lays in the memorycontroller, and can be overcome by feeding way more drivestrength, but i cannot be bothered to figure that one out.

I started my thread on this system months ago, and have yet got it to a ponit where i can call it stable enough to put it permanently in case. This is bad.

Suggestions?
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Old 18th October, 2005, 05:19 AM
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Try a chest freezer
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Old 18th October, 2005, 05:40 AM
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below 36c idle the vidcards throttle. can't even use a Zalman VF-700 on them becasue they are too cold at idle and do not transfer to full performance 3d.


Anyone else?

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Old 18th October, 2005, 05:50 AM
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That is really sucky!
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Why is Phonetic not spelt Phonetically, and why is the word Abbreviation so long?

My Ex gives 100% sound adivce, 99% sound, 1% adivce.

69% of all statistics are made up!

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Old 18th October, 2005, 05:51 AM
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Could you duct cold air to just the parts that need it, that may help your video card temp!
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Why is Phonetic not spelt Phonetically, and why is the word Abbreviation so long?

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69% of all statistics are made up!

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Old 18th October, 2005, 07:21 AM
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This is probably a dumb suggestion but on my card I can use rivatuner to set the fan speed for 2d,3d, and performance 3d, could you set the 2d and 3d to say 20% speed and set high-3d to 100% to provide cooling when it needs it?
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Old 18th October, 2005, 07:28 AM
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the cards do not get too hot..they get the CPU and CHIPSET too hot, CHIPSET most importantly.
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Old 18th October, 2005, 07:33 AM
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it would mean you could use your zalman though without the coldbug affecting it.
As far as cases go my cheiftec dragon full tower keeps my case temps below 35c under full load and with no case fans so maybe something similar would work for you.
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Old 18th October, 2005, 08:57 AM
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Watercool the chipset?
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Old 18th October, 2005, 08:59 AM
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Well the problem is that the chipset resides between the two cards, and gets TONS of radiant heat, as well as the heat coming out of the heatsink. A fan blowing on the area to help improve flow just doesn't work.

Even with a zalman cooler on the card, if the gpu WAS hot enough to not throttle(which it isn't), the problem isn't in cooling the gpu itself, but more importantly the mosfets on the card teh are at the exhaust of the gpu heatsink.

These mosfets are covered with a heatsink. I've tried mounting fans on them and everything, but these only seem to compound matters worse, becasue that heat HAS to go somewhere. I'm pretty sure that they are stepping down 12v for GPU power, becasue of the controller IC, so i can understand the heat...but in any SLI motherboard, this area is directly over the heatsink. Add raid 1+0, for some more load on the chipset, and this system just doesn't run inside a case.

I need the case with the LOWEST thermal rating possible. Watercooling the chipset is not enough. Tried that one. temps are lower with a fan there...airflow is definately needed in a large way.

Even more frustrating is that the chipset fan whirrs like a banshee...



I said i'd never go SLi, because i knew things like this would happen. Here it is nipping me in the bud. Sad thing is, there is no other choice for performance like this that i can buy even today. Although the ATI cards have been "launched" since October 5th, not one person in the 3 or so million people living within 500km's of me can buy one...which is really bad, IMHO, when ATI is a canadian company.

They don't even sell their products in thier own country.

I don't see even the ARTIC COOLING 7800 solution working...it doesn't get ANY air on those mosfets...(hence why asus "TOP" cards are having issues)


I need a couple of those quadro 4500 heatsinks. the ones that are on the Dell cards, maybe. These cool the mosfets differently...

But Dell doesn't sell them alone...
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Old 18th October, 2005, 09:20 AM
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How much of a trade off between noise and cooling are you willing to take?, getting a case with three front and 3 rear fan slots and whacking some dirty great delta fans in there should get a good 150cfm+ going through there but its gonna sound(as you know) like a dyson.
As for the mosfets, I dont know if they are the same as the ones for the power management on a motherboard but could you lift the transistor away fromt the board and attatch a heatsink similar to those in a psu or seperates amplifierso that heat is displaced more efficiently through the heatsinks rather than the circuit board or sinks glued to the mosfet casing? as they would then be sticking out from the board they would then be easier to direct a current of air over.
Also you could try ducting air from the side of the case inbetween the two cards feeding cold air to the gpu fans and over the modified mosfet heatsinks, this air could then be expelled from the front of the case through a reverse mounted fan underneath a partition to keep the air flowhorizontal and not interfere with the front to rear circulation of the top half of the case.
Sounds good anyway
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Old 18th October, 2005, 09:27 AM
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and here is a childlike drawing of my mindfuzz....
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Old 18th October, 2005, 09:44 AM
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The chipset problem is a little bit more interesting, if it's sandwiched between the two cards. I'm not sure I completely understand your problem however - you say that watercooling the chipset is not enough. Presumably that means that there are other components beyond the MOSFETs that get too hot in that area? Just sticking a heatsink in contact with the top of the MOSFET isn't the best solution, as most of the heat is dissipated via the metal MOSFET tab. It almost sounds like watercooling that could encompass the chipset and the MOSFETs might be a potential solution, but a lot of work.

Perhaps an alternative approach might be better suited? Instead of looking how to provide enough cooling to the other components, it might be better looking at how to channel the hot air from the video cards?

These are only suggestions based on my poor understanding of your particular problem - I'm sure you've probably already considered them and discounted 'em!
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Old 18th October, 2005, 02:40 PM
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Why don't you take one pic my friend and post it to see how much space we talk here...
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Old 18th October, 2005, 05:25 PM
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The circled areas are the mosfets that are the problem.there is only millimeters between the top one and the chipset heatsink. As you can see, i've gota couple of AMD-boxed-fans on the area, even when outside of the case. BEcasue of the way the chipset fan draws air, having the fan for the chipset heatsink not spinning actually gets me lower temps..it now draws no air directly off that heatsink. of course, temps jump 20c while in the case, and 22 with that chipset fan spinning.
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Old 18th October, 2005, 07:06 PM
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It's almost like you want to put a toilet roll tube over the chipset fan to drag cool air in from further away. Alternatively, water cool the MOSFETs - but that would require a low profile block to acheive.

One thing that I've noticed is that you have a fan blowing in air from the wrong direction. The MOSFETs should cooled by the exhaust from the main heatsink on the 7800 cards, and the airflow is from left to right in your picture. You appear to have a fan blowing in the counterdirection to the normal airflow. Additionally, it blows across the top of the chipset fan. That tends to lead to airflow problems and causes the air "starvation" for the chipset fan, which you want to avoid.
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Last edited by Áedán; 18th October, 2005 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 18th October, 2005, 07:18 PM
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LoL. Aedan. you know i know all this. airflow in the other direction is not possible because of the lack os space between the cards. Th toiletpaper-tube idea is a good one, however, not one that is enough, once inside a case. the mosfets will heat the board under the chipset, and the surrounding components...same issues as when watercooling.

The chipset fan is unplugged. no airstartvation of a fan not running...as i said earlier, having the fan run gets it hotter, either with the additional airflow or not. I put a delta screamer on the cards blowing towards the heatsink...it worked, but ofcourse, the noise was insurmountable.

You've got to understand, the videocards themselves are more than cool enough. it's the chipset that overheatrs, due to the cards. I totally see what you are saying Aedan, we are really on the same page, but once inside a case, the airflow situation is not normal...cases naturally draw air from the front, across the airflow coming from the graphics cards, and ends up dumping alot of warm air that just exited the cards back into the GPU heatsink fan.

Like talk about horrible design. I understand wanting single-slot cooling, but dammit it doesn't work well in SLi.

SInglecard i put an 80mm fan blowing in the same direction ans the videocard fan's airflow, propped over the chipset heatsink, and this is the only time i've been able to stick this system in a case and call it good...the second card, and the huge amount of space it takes up, ruins this.

I'm totally lost. I wanna pitch the system out the window. If only these games didn't look so damn good for the 10-15 minutes i can play before crashing!
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Old 18th October, 2005, 07:40 PM
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It's almost like you want additional ducting to pull air over the top surface of the MOSFET heatsinks and thus ensure that the hot air is pulled away from the area without having a chance to heat any of the surrounding area. Having the system pull some cooler air in a laminar flow next to the ducting would keep the ducting cool too, so you could get away with something as thin as paper. I threw a modified version of your image together, but it might be difficult to acheive.
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Old 18th October, 2005, 07:43 PM
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it might work. i have to swap the boxfans around the other way to suck the air away from the area, i think, and reverse the flow of air through the case, from front-to-back. this is a bit concerning if you havea PSU that dumps out a large heatload, such as my OCZ powerstream.


I guess when it comes to building GTX SLi, you best choose ALL your parts wisely.

I'll mock it up, Aedan, and give it a try, and we will see what happens.
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Old 18th October, 2005, 11:01 PM
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You might also be able to get away with a baffle that's stopping the air that's being pulled in the front from directly interfering with the flow from the GFX cards, and instead flowing around them. However, that would make the flow a bit difficult. How well vented is the back of the system?

I'm not sure that reversing the flow through the PSU is necessarily the best idea, especially as you point out that it dumps a fair amount of heat itself.
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