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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 26th October, 2006, 08:06 PM
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the device doesn't drop to sub ambient temps, its micro controller controlled and pumps only part of the heat. Some of the heatpipes cool the plate also. Partial heat dissipation by the pelt and the heatpipes is agreat idea. I'd like to see this developed a bit more than this.

I don't think that you can get a good watercooling set up for the $100 or so US that this thing costs. I agree water is a better way to go, but with the incredible eas of set up, since you don't have to figure out how to mangle ur case to mount a radiator, this is a simple way to achieve about water temperatures, without any hassle. Also plenty of people steer clear of water because of the small likelyhood of a leak. This has no way to leak, and offers similar performance.

As far as the price difference between this and the freezer, aren't people willing to pay $80 more for a video card that is an EASILY overclockable difference? The bottom line is they know that there is always someone willing to drop the extra cash for minimal gains, and they are marketing to those people. To be really honest if the price was about 20 less, and maybe without frieght, this thing would be in my computer now. Perhaps once the novelty wears off price will drop and it will be seen as a slightly better idea.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 27th October, 2006, 03:52 PM
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You don't seem to be reading what I'm saying.
1. How do you know how well the Arctic Freezer overclocks? It is easy to overclock very highly with a Freezer 64 - some people have oc'd very clsoe to water cooling.
2. I said a £58 difference - not $80. £58 in $ is $110. That is a VAST amount of difference. so yes, I do think that is too much more to pay over decent air cooling....
3. I didn't personally mention a $100 water kit. I said £100. Which translates as $189 - thats nearly double what you said. Perhaps you mean the $100 this TEc costs, in which case it still doesn't work out if you read what I say because there aren't many people who'll spend that. Either your not too fussed and spend £20 on decent air, or your hardcore and go straight to water cooling.
4. Water cooling kits hardly ever leak. If they do, it's probably because the person who installed it didn't do it properly. If you test the pipes outside your rig, you can see if it leaks.
5. The liquid used in WC kits is more than often non-conductive, so is less likely to cause problems.
6. A TEC cooler such as that does not usually offer similar performance to water cooling or phase change cooling.
7. Yes people are willing to pay more for an overclockable video card. But I don't see what thats got to do with anyhting I've said. Please read my posts properly.
8. Aédan quite rightly brings up the issue of power. A TEC cooler needs hefty power to cool. This is just how they work. If you under-power the TEC it won't cool very well.
9.
Quote:
The bottom line is they know that there is always someone willing to drop the extra cash for minimal gains, and they are marketing to those people.
These people are better known as short sighted kids with too much money and no sense.
10. It's rubbish.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 27th October, 2006, 04:34 PM
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#.Your points


my answers, wouldn't post with quotes...

You don't seem to be reading what I'm saying.
1. How do you know how well the Arctic Freezer overclocks? It is easy to overclock very highly with a Freezer 64 - some people have oc'd very clsoe to water cooling.

Some people might also have good chips. Causality.

2. I said a £58 difference - not $80. £58 in $ is $110. That is a VAST amount of difference. so yes, I do think that is too much more to pay over decent air cooling....

the difference transcends currency... OK watercooling is 140 US (160 is probably more likely), this is 100. I think if it were 75 or so it would be a good option.

3. I didn't personally mention a $100 water kit. I said £100. Which translates as $189 - thats nearly double what you said. Perhaps you mean the $100 this TEc costs, in which case it still doesn't work out if you read what I say because there aren't many people who'll spend that. Either your not too fussed and spend £20 on decent air, or your hardcore and go straight to water cooling.

I agree?

4. Water cooling kits hardly ever leak. If they do, it's probably because the person who installed it didn't do it properly. If you test the pipes outside your rig, you can see if it leaks.

I agree, but a lot of people don't have faith in thier own unexperienced hands, nor willing to take the time to test it. This is a way for $100 US to get the same performance with NO RISK of leaks. To those who are willing to spend the money, and they are out there, and the company who makes this knows this, its a good alternative. Slightly better than air cooling for slightly bigger prices...

5. The liquid used in WC kits is more than often non-conductive, so is less likely to cause problems.

non-conductive fluid become conductive when they get contaminated, and if u make ur own system odds are you will contaminate it. Again, the issue here is amature setup.

6. A TEC cooler such as that does not usually offer similar performance to water cooling or phase change cooling.

I never said phase change cooling, and the tests that I saw were as good as the previous watercooling rig i had, which was a 120mm rad, medium fan and a decent block. Again, ease of use, and $60 US less than the cost of a cooling rig that performs well...

7. Yes people are willing to pay more for an overclockable video card. But I don't see what thats got to do with anyhting I've said. Please read my posts properly.

I wasn't replying to just you, but everyone. The point is that people are willing to pay more for the factory to overclock for them, when they could very well do it themselves. The cooler here is better than air, but requires no hard configuration. Water might offer a bit more, but the cost is more complex set up. I'm making a relationship here between performance from a video card and performance between cooling. I assure you I read your posts, don't assume that I didn't...maybe you could pay a little more attention to my points, instead of trying to blindly disprove me.

8. Aédan quite rightly brings up the issue of power. A TEC cooler needs hefty power to cool. This is just how they work. If you under-power the TEC it won't cool very well.

The idea here is to relieve the TEC of some of its duty by adding heatpipes to the cold plate. This allows for a lower power tec to cool. This helps out with efficiency a little bit. This tec is controlled by a board that goes into the pci slot. Perhaps you didn't read into it again?

9.
These people are better known as short sighted kids with too much money and no sense.

So kids are the ones who have too much money to succumb to this really good marketing idea? Take an economics class. If you can hit the market at each level of money they are willing to spend, they will maximize thier profits. With this its not about selling to every tom dick and harry who wants better cooling, its for the richer people who are more lazy, less capable, or just like gimmicks. Shunning this product because it isn't the best possible solution, especially for the money, is a terrible idea. Personally I'd like to see TECs implemeneted in more creative ways like this. I've had nothing but bad experiences with TECs, but they are most certainly amazing. I feel its a matter of time before something like a TEC comes along and improves cooling. Things like this help push the envelope, so why scare people away form them by saying its such a terrbile idea, when it actually is a pretty decent cooler.

10. It's rubbish.
????blind arguement to reach ten perhaps????
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 27th October, 2006, 04:59 PM
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Yes, blind arguement because I like to round my numbers, not out of seriousness. Which I'm sure you see....
I like some of your points. But whereas your posts indicated through errors that perhaps you hadn't read my posts, I don't indicate a return of this by being erroneous, but by having a different opinion. So this point suddenly becomes invalid.
Not shunning a product because it's for money making seriously disowns a product designer, or an aspirational one like me.
True designers who design for qualtiy do not design purely for cash. And example of this is quite simple. Look at the design of a lemon squeezer by Philippe Starck. It is terrible. The lemon juice goes everywhere. But he pursued it for MONEY - giving him a terrible reputation and undermining his ethos as a designer of good quality products.
A good product does NOT always mean a product which sells well. Even companies know this, even ones all about money, arguably Apple are a good example of this.
Take a Product Design class.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 27th October, 2006, 05:28 PM
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Operations management, ur talkign TQM, total quality management. A business doesn't have to be in the market to 100% fulfill the customer needs, unless its TQM. they're getting the market they want, or so they hope. admitting that this is at least a decent idea with a high novelty value is all i ask.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 27th October, 2006, 06:03 PM
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Guys! Guys!

It's still a stupidly heavy heatsink and it's dubious as to if it's worth the money, agreed?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 27th October, 2006, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeroHouR
Operations management, ur talkign TQM, total quality management. A business doesn't have to be in the market to 100% fulfill the customer needs, unless its TQM. they're getting the market they want, or so they hope. admitting that this is at least a decent idea with a high novelty value is all i ask.
Your talking business, I prefer to talk design. We're just two different fields with two different aims.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 27th October, 2006, 11:07 PM
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Would a 50 Watt pelt even cool a modern cpu?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 28th October, 2006, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuknow
Would a 50 Watt pelt even cool a modern cpu?
I've said this earlier in the thread, that the heatpipes cool the coldplate, and the pelt offers cooling from the cpu to additional heatpipes. Splitting the full load of the 80 or so watt cpu.

AP, I want to apologize for coming off brash. It was finals week and I hadn't had my cough medicine in a while. I think that we BOTH understand each others points, and we might have been being a bit one sided biased. This is infact an agree to disagree situation I think.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 28th October, 2006, 02:07 PM
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Well, I was probably too brash too. We both have our points! And I think we're both not very good maybe at explaining them! Or I am not at least!
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Old 28th October, 2006, 05:49 PM
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yea, if it takes 5 posts for each of us to eek out those meager points, there is a class we both need to take lol
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Old 28th November, 2006, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favu
Guys! Guys!
It's still a stupidly heavy heatsink
I agree
I won't buy again heavy heatsinks I had one CoolerMaster Hyper 640 grammars.
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Old 28th November, 2006, 03:47 PM
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Necro!

this HSF weighs almost twice as much as the CM
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Old 28th November, 2006, 05:38 PM
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I thought this one was beat to death already.....

Or at least with in an inch of it's life...
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 28th November, 2006, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuknow
Would a 50 Watt pelt even cool a modern cpu?
no not even a low power mobile chip, you need at least twice the pelter power than cpu output to get any gains so 250w+ pelt is needid
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Old 28th November, 2006, 11:36 PM
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As for the whole watercooling situation and me....well let's not go there again. As for heat transfer, most new heatpipe coolers transfer in excess of 200 watts of heat, some even 250! The new Zalman looks like a decent alternative to this. But that is about £60 as well. But it doesn't weigh as much. However, you'd be surprised how much strain the sockets can take. My evo-120 is about 530 and it's not even unstable. Admittedly, that's almost half this thing but i do have to say that sockets and mountings for modern motherboards are very good (yes, we all know mine isn't the newest but it's stronger than the gates of hell).

Personally, i'd rather have a single (or even dual if needed that badly) fan heatpipe cooler. I value them even about watercoooling even if they are a bit on the loud side sometimes.
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