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Old 23rd July, 2008, 02:05 AM
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Acurate temps

I know this one has been bounced around before but I'd like some feed back. I have SpeedFan and Hardware Monitor. My Core 2 duo E4300 is at full load. HW reports core temps at 32c. SF reports core temps at 53c. I'm not concerend about the temps themselves but I'd like to know which one is accurate. When I start to OC it will make a difference-a big one!
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 02:20 AM
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Without calibration, NONE of the temps are good for anything other than a relative comparison (i.e., doing this made my temps go up/down by 2 degrees).

At any given temperature, a silicon diode is good for an accuracy of +/- 5C temperature measurement without calibration. It is possible to apply some mathematics to the problem and take a SWAG (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess) at what the calibration curve should look like, but without characterizing the diode, you are really just making a guess. It's entirely possible that either or both Hardware Monitor and SpeedFan are attempting to make guesses and guessing differently.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 02:50 AM
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Ok that is what you deal with. But that is the point, it has to be dealt with. When I start to OC there is a 20c difference in temp readings. One of them has to be chosen (or some other method all together) but it does make a difference where you start from. And if you start to get to the high temp of the CPU [which I won't!] it maks a big difference. I'll use Speedfan and know that I'm on the cautious side, and I won't be to agressive anyway.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 03:08 AM
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I would be rather surprised if the relative measurements vary all that much between the two tools, i.e. if one shows a temp change of 2 degrees, the other one should as well.

In that regard, it shouldn't make any difference which tool you use. Just bear in mind that the ABSOLUTE temperature readings are worthless as anything more than a general guideline. Obviously, if one of them shows a temp of 75C or 80C, you should start getting concerned, but beyond that.....
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 10:31 AM
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It could also depend on which temperature sensors they're reading. Core 2 Duo processors have multiple sensors. One of which reads the temperature of the heat spreader, and two read the junction temperature internal to the chip. (Core 2 quad processors have one case, and four junction sensors). Speedfan can measure both the case and junction temperatures.

To further confuse things, the heatspreader sensor is analog and is converted by components on the motherboard. Changing motherboard can change the reading on the heatspreader. The junction sensors are converted inside the CPU, and are factory calibrated to about +/- 1C. This means that moving the CPU from one motherboard to another will still result in repeatable junction temperatures.

So, what you're seeing with HW is the heatspreader sensor. SF looks like it's currently giving you one of the junction temperatures. The junction temperatures are what you want to be watching.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 12:06 PM
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Crazy way to run a railroad! This same problem [on a different scale] OC'ers were dealing with over 10-15yrs ago. I would have thought that the board mfgs would have gone to a standard by now!
Anyway, without the technical knowedge, Just plain lodgic said to use SF. All you really use the temp reading for is a benchmark, or a value if you like, and using the highest reading helps keep me in the safe zone.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 01:01 PM
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It's more that most people aren't willing to pay an extra $50 just to have the motherboard calibrated, so it doesn't happen.

Besides, which would you rather know, the temperature of the heatspreader, or the temperature of the processor cores themselves?
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 02:38 PM
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when I OC, what the accual temp of the CPU is not relevent.
Before you have appoplexy I'm not hard core. I don't have any curiousity to see just how far I can take this CPU.
The only reason the accual temp means anything at all is when it comes to OC'ing is the high end, critical temp.
I will use SF not because it is the one that is accurate. It's the one that gives me the best safety margin.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 03:17 PM
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The junction temperatures are the best indicator of how hot the silicon itself actually is, and is fairly accurate. The downside of that is that if you exceed a safe temperature at the silicon itself, the processor is probably toast (or at least damaged).

Personally, I'd use SF simply because it's entirely possible that for a moment in time, the heatspreader might be at a safe temperature, but the junction to be at an unsafe temperature. It's a bit like the old thermistor under the socket, where there could be a huge difference between the temperature at the silicon, and the temperature of the air under the socket!
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorPorMe View Post
I know this one has been bounced around before but I'd like some feed back. I have SpeedFan and Hardware Monitor. My Core 2 duo E4300 is at full load. HW reports core temps at 32c. SF reports core temps at 53c. I'm not concerend about the temps themselves but I'd like to know which one is accurate. When I start to OC it will make a difference-a big one!
Core Temp v0.99.1 is what I use all the time to monitor my Core Temps as it has System Tray temp readings that you can read at any time to see how hot it is.
It also supports the Logitech G15 keyboard display so you can watch your temp even while playing games and I've found it to be very accurate for the 65nm Core 2 Duo processors.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 04:38 PM
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Do you have a link for that? The monitoring program I had for my Epox board had a tray icon-it's nice just to pass the pointer over to read temps.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 04:51 PM
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Click on the "Core Temp v0.99.1" that's underlined in the post - that's the link.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 05:05 PM
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With Intel not giving a true accounting for what TJMax is, coretemp, realtemp and speedfan are all based on the distance to TJMax but they are guessing at what TJMax truly is.

A little extra heat will hinder an overclock, but it is not a CPU killer. Voltage is the quicker killer, regardless of temps.

Best advice is to keep everything in a zone comfortable to you. If you find yourself thinking the temps or volts are to high, back things down till you don't think about it anymore..
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccperf721p View Post
With Intel not giving a true accounting for what TJMax is, coretemp, realtemp and speedfan are all based on the distance to TJMax but they are guessing at what TJMax truly is.

A little extra heat will hinder an overclock, but it is not a CPU killer. Voltage is the quicker killer, regardless of temps.

Best advice is to keep everything in a zone comfortable to you. If you find yourself thinking the temps or volts are to high, back things down till you don't think about it anymore..

How does that saying go?
We gauge anothers intelligence by how much they agree with our beliefs.
ccp is a friggin genious!
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 08:44 PM
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ccf gave me the same advice which is a good rule of thumb to go by!
If you are not comfy with the voltages and temps then back it down till you are & that is exactly what I do.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 09:33 PM
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No-one knows exactly what the maximum junction temperature is, but based on other semiconductors, going over 120-125C will probably cause damage. Atom is specified with a maximum junction temperature of 90C.
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Old 23rd July, 2008, 09:40 PM
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I know I won't come close to that-I'll get a Themaltake cooler and when I get to bumping 70c or so will be enough for me. And after I do some checking! I admit, it I'm chicken!
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