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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 15th August, 2002, 03:32 AM
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I'm sorry for copying/pasting some parts of my posts (sometimes the whole post) between a couple of forums, somethimes I just don't have timew to write the same thing all over again in different words.

I was thinking of saying that the block haven't come out because of "personal reasons" but people is probably starting to think I'm (I don't know the word, the kind of person who has no word and it's always making up excuses).. The block was supposed to be ready now, what hapenned was my doctor prescribed me a new medication for some stomach problems I have and I had a *very bad* reaction to it (from strong headaches to nightmares), that stuff totally knocked me out, for 2 days I was feeling like the day after 20 shots of tequila, so that's the reason for the delay. I'm not totally good yet probably because that sh#% was slow relase but as soon as the final glue from the model dries (I just applied it so it will be 24hrs) I will finally cast it.

Thanks

Bruno Facca
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 15th August, 2002, 06:38 AM
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thanks for the update
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 15th August, 2002, 11:37 AM
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I hope you feel better soon.

Can you take a pic of the model ?
Id like to see what its made from.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 16th August, 2002, 05:30 AM
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I'm new too all this so if I sound silly say so ok. I was a go-kart racer a long time ago . For cooling we used rubbing alcohol too cool it down alot works better than stright water . It was about a 50\50 mix . It might be silly but it's a thought.

Thanks

Wats
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 16th August, 2002, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by watsaru
I'm new too all this so if I sound silly say so ok. I was a go-kart racer a long time ago . For cooling we used rubbing alcohol too cool it down alot works better than stright water . It was about a 50\50 mix . It might be silly but it's a thought.

Thanks

Wats
Not as silly as you may think. The alcohol would allow the water to flow faster (less viscosity) but you have to balance it, since the alcohol impares waters ability to remove heat from the component being cooled.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 16th August, 2002, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Random Nonsense


Not as silly as you may think. The alcohol would allow the water to flow faster (less viscosity) but you have to balance it, since the alcohol impares waters ability to remove heat from the component being cooled.
Thats the same as using methanol and water mix. There is a drop in viscosity and the SHC isnt too badly affected. Also the freesing point drops allot allowing waterchillers to operate very well.
Unfortunately methanol will evaporate even if you have a "closed loop" system. Sitting in an atmosphere containing small ammounts of methanol wouldt be harmfull in the short term but may be damaging under long term exposure.

I wouldt use methanol myself as it may be dangerous to your health.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 18th August, 2002, 06:01 AM
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Do you know anything else that will decrease water's surface tension? What else do they put on those water wetters besides the ethylene glycol?

@Holst: I'm finally good, thanks . The model is mainly made of wood and some small bits and pieces are plastic, I don't have the time to take pics right now because my capturing process takes too long (recording in a SVHS camera, capturing it (analog) and filtering it in virtualdub to remove the noise from my camera wich is old) so I will take the pictures all together, if you want I can post a pic of the model when I take the other pics.

now the news to the block:

I hope it's the last time I come here with bad news: The block did cast ok, but not good enough so I called someone from out of town, he has been working with casting for over 40 years, we discussed what went "wrong" when making the mold cause I knew the problem was in there, he explained it to me (it was some very little details) and monday I will go to his workshop so he will show me a better technique for molding small, detailed objects like this block. No changes in the model will be necessary, it actually looks very good so I hope to get a "perfect" prototype working on my PC by tuesday.

I got very good hosting so the web site is also on it's way.

Besides the block I'm working on something that has a pump, reservoir, a radiator, 2 120mm fans and a rheostat to control their RPM, in fact the radiator it's one of the best for computer water cooling in the world (it's parallel in case you're curious). The advantage of this "all-in-one" are many, such as price, I didn't do any exact calculations but I guess it would be around *edited by me otherwise they can erase this post * for the whole thing (it is a good price isn't it?), another cool thing about the way I'm desisgning this is the size, it's around 230mm tall, the other dimensions are 150mm and 180mm, as I told you the radiator is very good, the pump will be 1200 liters per hour and it will be all made of aluminium except for the acrylic front of the reservoir. I guess it will hold around 1 liter of water. This will be possible by taking advantage of every little space available between the parts. Anyway it will probably take over a month to get a prototype of this and it's on patenting process right now... Just let me know what you think about the ideas and fell free to post any suggestions or flames. I will tell you more about the project once it's fully patented (shouldn't take too long), I'm doing that because I never saw anything like this project before so I'm sorry if I sound like an ass. Anyway my priority right now is the block.

Thanks
Bruno Facca
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 21st August, 2002, 05:28 AM
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I'm back with some more news, I'm sorry for taking so long but I've been working like 12 hours a day in the development of this block so there are some days I'm so wasted at night I just eat and go straight to bed.

As I told you I talked to someone that's much more experienced in the cast process than me and he identified the problems in the mold and tought me some new techniques for precision casting. So I did cast the block yesterday, it looked good but after thinking about it over and over again I decided I wouldn't make it available yet because it can be made better using those new techniques I mentioned, right now I'm building some new tools to make that possible, at the same time my partner is switching the blower from ouw blast furnace to a bigger one so the copper will be even hotter when cast.

The reason why I'm not posting pics of the block I made yesterday is that, as I told you it's not as good as the one I will be selling, also I didn't want to sopend any time giving it finish so I'm sure some people would look at it and have wrong ideas about what the final block will be, I mean, underestimate it. So that's why I only want to post pics of the final product.

If nothing else goes wrong (I don't think it will) I will have a couple of blocks for testing by the end of this week. I know it's like the 10th time I say that but sometimes sh** happens, I'm working really hard to make this product as good as it can be and as fast as I can so you can keep checking this thread for any future updates.

Thanks
Bruno Facca
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 21st August, 2002, 05:55 AM
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just like you said....... Sh** happens- life goes on- just takes a little while-- are you making a p4 version of this block? if so shoot me a pm- im working on something for spode :-D
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 24th August, 2002, 05:45 PM
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Everything is going the way it's suopposed to, except it took more time than I expected to do some stuff. I don't have time to write now because I'm late for something but I'll update you on monday.

Thanks
Bruno Facca
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 27th August, 2002, 03:51 AM
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I was away for the weekend, I took a short trip to the countryside, I was too stressed out but now I'm back with batteries recharged.

The prototype would probably be ready by now if I had worked on the weekend as I'm used to. The thing that is taking so long is a tool I'm making (almost done) that will allow me to make the 2 sides of the mold separately, thus making the result a much more perfect mold (and block of course). I also upgraded the air blower of the blast furnace by a bigger one to get even more heat. If everything goes the way it's supposed to I will have the prototype in the middle of this week. By the way I made some more improvements in the model, now the top and bottom are metal so it molds even better.

About the radiator I told some people about (one of the best available for water cooling in the world) it's aluminium, I already knew mixing Al and Cu wasn't a very good idea but after making some research I found out that it's actually a *very bad* idea so I managed to get a 100% copper version of it, in fact it's even better than the aluminium one (wich I use myself).

As for the pictures you all been waiting for I didn't forgot, as I told you I will take them all at once because of the work involved in capturing (I'm actually using a video camera for taking pics, capturing it to digital video, filtering it and choosing good frames for pics). The pics I will be posting are: the block of course, the model, my water cooling rig, the radiator I told you about, the blast furnace and maybe, just maybe, my messy workshop

Thank you
Bruno Facca
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 27th August, 2002, 07:06 AM
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Damn-nab it guys this is GOOD reading !!!!
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 30th August, 2002, 01:27 AM
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The model should have been ready for today but after testing the model (to see if it really molds well and it did) I ran out of molding material (stupid! stupid! stupid!) so I'll have to go out of town tomorrow and buy some, this will take most of the day so I will only cast the prototype on saturday. I'm really anxious here to get this thing working on my PC (for testing purposes), you have no idea..

I'm not sure how long will it take for me to make all the tests necessary (some tests to determine if the water is running as it was designed to be, performance tests in overclocked XP and P4, high pressure test for leaks..) but it shouldn't be much, like 3 to 10 days depending on how things go (counting from saturday).

Thanks
Bruno Facca
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 1st September, 2002, 06:13 PM
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Sorry for the delay, but I have good news:

FINALLY! The prototype was cast succesfully, except for some little problems I already found a solution to, so they won't happen in the next cast. I used a molding material that has quite big particles to get a rough surface on the inside, the outside will be machined until it's totally smooth, all blocks will be lapped (except for the top that will be painted in the same color as graphite and the rough look will be very when painted).
I have no time to machine it today but tomorrow morning it will be all finished so I'll definately post the pictures tomorrow.

About the coldplate, I will have to look into it because the corners of the block (where the screws of the coldplate would go) were designed to hold only 1 screw (the copper is reinforced there so the screws don't go in contact with water) so the space available in there is already taken by the screws that hold the top into place, I'm trying to find a solution for this.

Thank you
Bruno Facca
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 1st September, 2002, 07:14 PM
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bruno, use straight through screws, they could hold cold plate, tec, block and lid altogeather rather than seperate ones.

cant wait to see pics!
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 1st September, 2002, 07:30 PM
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I cant wait!!! :-)
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 2nd September, 2002, 05:39 PM
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Don't get too excited about the piuctures and forget to READ THE TEXT!

This is only a prototype or what you could call a "beta" version of the block, I made the mold in a hurry so as you can see there are some failures, as that "hole" on the bottom, another failure in the inside in the middle channel and some metal accumulations in the corners at the bottom of the inside of the block, those failures *will not be there* in the blocks that will come from next cast (wich will be the ones for sale) as I already figured out a way to avoid them. It's also dirty on the inside, it will be cleaned with a high pressure jet of air.

The inside surface is supposed to be that rough (except for the failures I told you about) to increase the contact area and water turbulence by a lot.

As you can see the quality of the pictures suck but that was the best I could get of my analog VHS videocamera.

The rest of the pictures I promised will be posted tonight.

The company web site is not ready yet so I uploaded the pics to my personal web space.
Here's the link:
*EDITED*

@Random Nonsense: How come I didn't think of that :clown:

Thanks to everyone who gave me your great ideas/suggestions/critics!
Bruno Facca
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 2nd September, 2002, 05:52 PM
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Nice Job

Its turned out very well indeed.
You certainly couldt mill that. I think you can improove the design a bit, but looking at it performance should allready be good.

How many can you make in one go (you dont have to cast one at a time I hope)?
Where can we buy one ?

Keep up the good work, post back once you have a complete block and you have tested it.

If you want to send one to me ill take pics with my high res camera.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 2nd September, 2002, 06:02 PM
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im gonna point out some flaws in the design that can improove performance a lot, first it looks like its 1inch tall, and like 3/4inch deep channels, thats just massive the water woudl take soo long to get thru, it is best for the water just to shoot in and out as fast as possible, maby just shave some off the top, you know hwat i mean? also you it looks like it was hand carved or something, by this i mean it looks like it isnt exactly 2x3 or whatever you were searching for, it looks a little bigger on one side than the other,
otherwize it looks like its going somewere
do you have any pics of the mold and all the stuff you used? id be interested in seeing how you are making these..
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 2nd September, 2002, 11:47 PM
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Everyone please read, there are some things I may have not made clear:

as I said before it has a lot of little flaws on the inside and the outside was machined by hand, I has holding the block against the (I don't know the name of the machine in english) "spinning abrasive thing" myself so it got pretty irregular, right now I'm building a tool to make it this process mostly automatic so the outside will be totally regular and flawless. The inside will also look better when the molds are made more carefully, the walls, mainly the inside divisions are a little thicker than they should because, as I said, the mold was made in a hurry. It should take some days to complete these tools I talked about. In short what I'm saying is: expect *much* better from the next "batch".

Quote:
im gonna point out some flaws in the design that can improove performance a lot, first it looks like its 1inch tall, and like 3/4inch deep channels, thats just massive the water woudl take soo long to get thru, it is best for the water just to shoot in and out as fast as possible, maby just shave some off the top, you know hwat i mean?
It's 18mm tal (a lot less than 1 inch) and the bottom is 3.5mm, so the channels are 14.5mm deep, you do the math but it's a little more than 1/2 inch. I know what you are talking about (flow speed) but the measurements of the channels were made to be around 1/2 when added and divided by 2, so that it has space to produce many turbulence and yet offering little flow resistance so the water actually runs fast, it's much easier to your pump to get the water passing fast when it has the space for it. Also there's a formula in fluid dynamics that says that the thinner the "pipe" is the most laminar the flow will be, actually when you have a really thin passage for the water the boundary layer can occupy the whole thing than you get terrible heat transfer. Increasing turbulence (some space is needed) can increase heat transfer by more than 200%. Anyway, I will make one smaller (by shaving the top as you said) and test it to see if it performs better, if it does I'll be happy to make this change to the original model. As for the irregular wall sides read the beggining of the post.

@holst: Right now (with the casting gear I have) I can cast like 8 at a time, I will expand that capability to over 35 later. What takes more time is the machining so I can't tell exactly how many blocks I can produce in a week, but If I were to guess I would say around 16, as I said once money starts to come in I'll upgrade the machines and be able to make much more. You can't buy it yet because 1- I have no stock yet (shouldn't take much time) and 2- The website will take some days to be completed but. I guess in a 5-10 days we will have the whole thing ready to sell.

@maskedgeek: I already explained the process, the workshop is way too messy for me to take pics right now.

Thanks
Bruno Facca
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