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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 26th September, 2002, 09:52 PM
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Sorry for taking so long to update you. 7 out of 9 blocks are done with the "heavy machining" part (yes it took me all this time). As I said the original model absorbed humidity from the molding material so the blocks got 1mm bigger (wider) on one side, that means if I had put together the pieces of those tools I'm making to "automate" the machining process they would be irregular and wouldn't work for the next batch of blocks. In short I'm having to machine all the 9 blocks by hand, again . That's why Í'm taking so much time. I expect to be done with the heavy machining by tomorrow, then it's the thin sandpaper and polishing them up.
I decided not to cast the tops, instead I'll just buy some flat copper bars and make them the exact size of the block, so the ACS logo will be painted instead of extruded, it will look very cool. That should make the production quicker and easier.
Some of you are probably wondering "how the hell is this guy planning on selling these blocks if it takes so long to make just a few of them?". The answer to that is, once I get things going (the tools are ready, I got the hole references and this kind of stuff) production should be fast, around 16 blocks a week in the beginning climbing to +- 40 blocks a week after a few months.
I forgot to mention the blocks will be cleaned using a *big ass* jacuzzi pump driving a very powerful and thin water jet. Sand blasting is not an option right now and I got this pump lying around so...
I also got myself 2 very thick (read strong) 120mm 220V fans for my radiator (wich is already very good) and a 316GPH pump wich should also contribute in a high performance testing rig for the blocks so I can get the best out of them.

@Holst: Thanks

Thank You
Bruno
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 29th September, 2002, 06:38 PM
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First of all I'd like everyone that read is reading this to post their opinion on this:
Is it important for you that the block is polished (looks like a mirror) on the sides or will you be satisfied if it's not polished but it's really smooth as in you can't see a single scratch from the machining (a very very thin sandpaper would be used)?
Please give your opinion as this is very important.

Good news are I got myself a belt sander, that should help the machining process _a lot_.

Here are some work in progress pics:
Before you ask about the top thickness, it's 6mm, I know thats too thick (it will be 4mm in the final relase) but it was the only kind of copper bar I could get without having to order tons of it. Anyway it's not that heavy. Well here they are:

http://66.227.5.144/images/blocks.jpg

They look "brownish" and uneven because I work with water most of the time to cool them down while they're being machined so they are a little oxidized, of course that's not how they going to be (a thin sandpaper and they're new). They are already very flat and quite smooth, they will be even more as they're not finished yet. You can't see much detail in one of the pics so I also took a close up pic of one of those blocks, this is how they look so far.

Bruno Facca
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Last edited by Bruno Facca; 29th September, 2002 at 06:41 PM.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 29th September, 2002, 07:33 PM
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Wow..... those look exclent~~~Whats the motivation for the slanted sides? Make sure it dosent bump any caps?
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 30th September, 2002, 03:11 AM
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I don't want the 4-hole method. Not all AMD boards have them.(They are no longer necessary for a board to be AMD approved.)
If you have something that will attach SECURELY to the socket lugs, you can use it with p3 and celeron as well.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 1st October, 2002, 09:18 PM
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@The Spyder: Thank you. The sides were made like that so it casts nicely but I guess they also look good

@Caffinehog: As I said before there will be 2 versions of the block, 1 for the mobo holes and 1 that uses a SECURE socket clip. The clip version will only be available in the 2nd batch.
I don't know about AMD's decision but all the new MoBos (for the hammer) I've seen so far have the holes. I'd like to read more about this change in AMD requirements, can you post where you read it?

Thanks
Bruno
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 2nd October, 2002, 03:48 PM
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I beleve RN has details on the new hammer socket dimentions, PM him and ask him to email them.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 3rd October, 2002, 06:05 AM
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This is a photo of D-Tek TC-4 block. I removed the stock turbulators and installed copper coils. The stock turbulators restricted the flow of my 1250 pump. Before placing the coils into the channel I was running an open channel after removing the stock turbulators. I have yet to test my coils in my system, but it has been tested on a system using the same 1250 pump, D-tek rad, and CPU and the coils dropped the temps 1c-1.5c over the open channels. When I first removed the stock turbulators I saw a 2c drop in temp using open channels while using the 1250 pump. So I am hoping to drop another 1c-1.5c as being reported from a fellow O/C that has virtually the same system as I have. The coils appear to created more turbulence while still maintaining flow through the block. The coils could be added to virtually any block.

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/attach...postid=1076741
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 3rd October, 2002, 06:12 AM
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Photo of my system before removing the stock turbulators.

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/attach...&postid=995799
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 3rd October, 2002, 08:44 AM
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Bruno, did you checked this thread on procooling about problem with casting copper : http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=4529
I don't want to ruin your excitement, but please check for air pockets a little deeper in your block, or did you use some kind of controled enviroment?

CooledByWater, you're DodgeViper right, or are there two of those beautiful heatercores out
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 3rd October, 2002, 12:54 PM
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Yep, its me. Just thought I would post the photo and what we have done with this block. Like me your everywhere morphling1. I see you have gotten yourself a new mill.
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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 5th October, 2002, 03:32 AM
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I should have the C/W info on the block anytime now so keep checking this thread for updates in the next couple of days.

It took me more time than I imagined to drill all the holes for screws and hose fittings because (besides copper being a ***** to drill) as I said before this batch of blocks are all 1 or 2mm wider on one side so it's hard to measure and determine the exact places for the holes in a irregular piece, also I got a cut in my hand from a top that "grabbed" the driller and started spinning like crazy, to avoid that and make the drilling process a lot faster I'm putting together something that will hold the tops (and the blocks) in the right spot in the table top driller.

@morphling1: I took some of the blocks I casted and sanded them until they literally disappeared into a bunch of copper "dust", I haven't found a single air bubble. I used to have this problem before but I found the solution. You can read my reply to the thread on casting if you want more detail on that.

@CooledByWater: That's an interesting way of causing turbulence, if your channels were wider/taller you would probably get results far better than what you already have as the water would have much more room to "turbulate".

Thanks
Bruno Facca
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 5th October, 2002, 04:32 PM
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This post is for those that may make their own coils and replace the stock turbulators. Be very careful when tightening the machine screws. If over tighten you may crack the Lexan top. Only slight pressure is needed to seal the top.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 6th October, 2002, 06:08 AM
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BENCHMARK RESULTS:

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ at 1467 MHz (stock speed), Vcore=1,76V, the following temperatures are taken when running at full load non stop for 4 hours:
All temps were taken from the mother board's thermal sensors so they may be reported highet than they actu ally are, for more info please read this: http://www.swiftnets.com/troubleshooting.htm
Heat dissipation is 64.7 Watts for the processor and (*IMPORTANT*) my 1200 Liters/h pump is rated at 12 Watts, I don't know how much of that is converted into heat, I will make it 6 Watts for the calculations, let me know what you think about this.
CPU temp: 37ºC
Case temp: 32ºC

We have a Cº/W ratio of 0,11!

Please let me know if you think any benchmarking methods I just described can be improved for more accuracy.

So what you think?

Thanks
Bruno Facca
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 6th October, 2002, 06:12 AM
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I like it! And i want one :P
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 6th October, 2002, 01:54 PM
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Thats not a very accurate way of working out CW bruno.

(You need to use water temperature into - minus full load temp of CPU)
devided by CPU wattage.

As you can never get your CPU to full load your CW will allways read a bit better than it is.

Using ambient air temp and adding on pump wattage will make your calculations very innacurate.

Almost all the pumps energy will go into your water as heat in a submerged system.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 6th October, 2002, 07:15 PM
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In fact, I should have measured the radiator air intake temp and the water temp and at the reservoir before turning the rig on instead of case temp, my mistake, tonight I'll post the new numbers and a test of another version of the block I have here.

You wanted detail, I'll give you even what you didn't want to know

PC specs:
AMD Athlon XP 1700+ at stock speed and Vcore
Soyo Dragon +
256mb DDR
2x Samsung 40GB 5200RPM in RAID mode 0
Geforce 2 MX 400 w/ TV out
Pixelview TV/video capture card
LG DVD ROM 16x
Samsung CD-R 8x4x32

Water cooling system specs:
Atman 1200 pump
Aluminium radiator with parallel flat tubing (not in the market)
2x 120mm 220V fans
1/2 tubing
pump - block - rad config


Here are some pics of the test rig, I didn't want to take those because the block I'm using has absolutely no finish so it looks very bad. Of course the ones for sale won't look anything like this. Also the soldering (for the hose fittings) is ugly because I was experimenting a new soldering method on this one.

http://66.227.5.144/bruno/benchmark1.jpg
http://66.227.5.144/bruno/benchmark2.jpg

Before you ask, the black box in the rad is the fan's speed control so I can make it silent when I'm going to sleep with the PC on or watch a DVD.

@Holst: You're right, I'll post new results tonight.

@The Spyder: Good

Thanks
Bruno
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 6th October, 2002, 07:46 PM
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Bruno, havent heard from you in a while Via email, are you still set to have a block featured in the spodes abode shootout?
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 6th October, 2002, 09:18 PM
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how does your soyo board measuer the CPU temperature.
If its the insocket diode then its not worth your time working out a CW due to the innacuracy in the measurment.

If its reading the XP internal diode then your results should be a bit more worthwhyle (although still a large degree of innacuracy will remain)
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 6th October, 2002, 11:23 PM
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i have quite an acurate setup rite now, on die diode, and water temperatures, i can test it for you if you want, ill also have comparisons between gemini and spir@l and maby a few more blocks to compare to, along with my blocks

and no that is not acurate at all for what you have, you can point a fan at the socket and get better temps even though thats not what they are...
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 8th October, 2002, 06:07 AM
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I'm sorry about not posting the results last night as I told you I would. I decided to make a digital thermometer this afternoon, so I can get accurate measurements for water temp and room temp, the damn thing wouldn't work so it took me all night to troubleshoot it, now it's working and calibrated.
About the CPU I'll figure a way to use the processor internal thermistor, either by modding my mother board or attaching a circuit that can read from it, it shouldn't be too hard..

@Random nonsense: Yeah, I'm really sorry about keeping you waiting, as I told you I would like to have the 2nd batch reviewed because these will be sold as beta so it should take some time . Sure I still want my block on spodes adobe and I will not change my mind about that I just can't tell how long before the 2nd batch is ready and I can send you one. If you want to do the shootout now you could add my block later (if you want of course).

@Holst: My mother board reads from that crappy socket thermistor, but as I said, I'll fix that, I think the internal thermistor on the XP has enough accuracy.

@maskedgeek: Thanks but I can't afford sending you a block right now.

Thank you
Bruno Facca
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