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CRASHED! A topic for SEVERE and immediate Hardware and Operating System FAILURES. We will try to get you up again. NOT for Optimization questions!


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11th January, 2005, 10:35 PM
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C1 Error!

Hey guys, first of all i have an epox 8kha+

I have an AXP1800+ Tbred on it. last month i had 2x256mb ddram pc2100 but one of the rams stopped working out of nowhere! so i continued using my pc normally, only with 256mb ddr and no overclock...

today suddenly my pc freezes (the temp was normal, 43°C) and when i presses the reset button the motherboard was beeping with a "C1" error. The manual says it's related to memory...strange, its the second memory i've apparently lost!

i haven't tested other memories yet cuz i don't have em here...but is there any chance the problem is something else?

oh and the computer doesn't even show the bios screen, the monitor never lights up...

help me please!!!!!!
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Old 12th January, 2005, 04:19 AM
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C1 is a generic EPoX error code that basically indicates some sort of problem with the memory subsystem. It could be anything from the north bridge to bad memory or a poor PSU.
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Old 12th January, 2005, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunobm
Hey guys, first of all i have an epox 8kha+

I have an AXP1800+ Tbred on it. last month i had 2x256mb ddram pc2100 but one of the rams stopped working out of nowhere! so i continued using my pc normally, only with 256mb ddr and no overclock...

today suddenly my pc freezes (the temp was normal, 43°C) and when i presses the reset button the motherboard was beeping with a "C1" error. The manual says it's related to memory...strange, its the second memory i've apparently lost!

i haven't tested other memories yet cuz i don't have em here...but is there any chance the problem is something else?

oh and the computer doesn't even show the bios screen, the monitor never lights up...

help me please!!!!!!
Hi Brunobm
try resetting your CMOS. If the machine boots up, set your Ram timings to fairly slow. Make sure everything is stable in Windows, then speed up the Ram timings until you find where it fails.
You may want to consider boosting the Chipset and Ram voltages in case some component has aged on your motherboard or PSU.
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Old 12th January, 2005, 05:25 PM
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alright, this is what i have...

i cleared CMOS but it didn't help, the computer still won't boot and beeps with a C1 error...

i'm not an expert but i think i found the leaking capacitors...i took a picture, see if it really is a leaking cap:
http://paginas.terra.com.br/lazer/brunobm/cpu.html
(the pictures are large)
if it is a leaking cap i think i'm in trouble...i found 8 of them!
oh, and in case anyone needs to know, my motherboard is 3 years old.

i'm now going to test my two ddr memories that supposedly no longer work in another computer.

but how do i solve my problem if it is the capacitor?? i mean, i'm no expert...if the problem is a worn out memory i could buy a new one, but considering that two broke in a month i think there's something else to it...

please help!!!
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Old 12th January, 2005, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunobm
alright, this is what i have...

i cleared CMOS but it didn't help, the computer still won't boot and beeps with a C1 error...

i'm not an expert but i think i found the leaking capacitors...i took a picture, see if it really is a leaking cap:
http://paginas.terra.com.br/lazer/brunobm/cpu.html
(the pictures are large)
if it is a leaking cap i think i'm in trouble...i found 8 of them!
oh, and in case anyone needs to know, my motherboard is 3 years old.

i'm now going to test my two ddr memories that supposedly no longer work in another computer.

but how do i solve my problem if it is the capacitor?? i mean, i'm no expert...if the problem is a worn out memory i could buy a new one, but considering that two broke in a month i think there's something else to it...

please help!!!

Yes, they dont look very healthy!
You have 2 options, replace the Capacitors or replace the motherboard.
You dont have a lot to lose. If you can get some quality Capacitors of the same type/rating cheap, you may as well use this as a way to improve your soldering skills (or ask a friend who's handy at it). Use a solder sucker or solder wick to remove excess solder. It may also help to pull the caps out while holding the soldering iron tip on the Capacitor leg.
If possible, chop the capacitors out and remove the leg traces. Alternatively, you can leave the legs behind and solder new capacitors to them, avoiding overheating the motherboard. The wire length does matter, if left short, it should have no impact.

For 8 Capacitors to start leaking, either the mfr had a faulty batch or they have been getting quite hot for some time.

Good luck

Edit:
if replacing the capacitors, you arent worried about damaging the ones that are there (take care to not lift any pads on the motherboard). You can pull them left/right a bit to expose more of the leg. Make sure you have some tissue handy to mop up any foul smelling oil that comes out of them.
When replacing the caps, these MUST be replaced the right way round. Be VERY careful of which side is + and which is -
Audio Grade Electrolytics may do the job. Dont get the cheapest you can find, seek a little advice.
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Last edited by Chernobyl; 12th January, 2005 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 12th January, 2005, 05:53 PM
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okayyyy...dammit...i don't trust myself to do this...and i don't know anyone who can...and to pay a technitian (who doesn't know ****, at least here in brazil) it's more expensive than buying a new mobo...

good news is all my memories work fine in this other computer...

there's no other way besides changing capacitors?? its just that i don't really want to buy a new mobo, cuz i'll be tempted to buy quicker memories, than a quicker cpu, etc...and i'm moving for 6 months so only my dad will be using my pc...
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Old 12th January, 2005, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunobm
okayyyy...dammit...i don't trust myself to do this...and i don't know anyone who can...and to pay a technitian (who doesn't know ****, at least here in brazil) it's more expensive than buying a new mobo...

good news is all my memories work fine in this other computer...

there's no other way besides changing capacitors?? its just that i don't really want to buy a new mobo, cuz i'll be tempted to buy quicker memories, than a quicker cpu, etc...and i'm moving for 6 months so only my dad will be using my pc...
lol, I know the feeling
The caps serve a purpose, as you can see the board doesnt work well without them operating. Those big capacitors are used to store power and reduce electrical noise. Removing them entirely may allow the board to run at a slower speed (some may be short circuit). Maybe??? Highly doubtful.
I'm not sure if running the system in this state will be safe for other components (ie your ram). I wouldnt recommend it if you cannot afford to replace anything more.

A new motherboard isnt that costly, especially 3 year old ones. I imagine it would cost less than replacing the ram.

ps clean inside your PC !
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Old 12th January, 2005, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernobyl
lol, I know the feeling
The caps serve a purpose, as you can see the board doesnt work well without them operating. Those big capacitors are used to store power and reduce electrical noise. Removing them entirely may allow the board to run at a slower speed (some may be short circuit). Maybe??? Highly doubtful.
I'm not sure if running the system in this state will be safe for other components (ie your ram). I wouldnt recommend it if you cannot afford to replace anything more.

A new motherboard isnt that costly, especially 3 year old ones. I imagine it would cost less than replacing the ram.

ps clean inside your PC !
i think i'll buy a new mobo, i don't want to risk any other components...i was thinking about the NF7-S2 its cheap, not a major upgrade and its awesome by what i've heard...what do you guys think? any other recommendations?
i don't want a major upgrade as i said...

oh and the reason i don't clean my pc a lot is that its simply a dust sucker...it gets dirty too easily and i have no patience to clean it...and my IMT4000 doesn't help any, especially cuz i installe a fan on top and thus i cannot remove the cover completely...hard to describe...maybe i'll post a pic later
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Old 12th January, 2005, 06:38 PM
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oh, forgot to ask:

ANY CHANCE AT ALL that the problem is not the capacitors, that its some other freaked out component that makes my memories disfunctional ?? lol!! just trying to keep my hopes up hahahaha!!!
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12th January, 2005, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunobm
i think i'll buy a new mobo, i don't want to risk any other components...i was thinking about the NF7-S2 its cheap, not a major upgrade and its awesome by what i've heard...what do you guys think? any other recommendations?
i don't want a major upgrade as i said...

oh and the reason i don't clean my pc a lot is that its simply a dust sucker...it gets dirty too easily and i have no patience to clean it...and my IMT4000 doesn't help any, especially cuz i installe a fan on top and thus i cannot remove the cover completely...hard to describe...maybe i'll post a pic later

To answer your second post first.
Its highly likely the caps are the reason you saw stability problems with your Ram. Power to the Ram needs to be pretty stable. To take it a stage further, there is a device which sits in a Ram slot which stabilises the Ram power and gives more headroom for overclocking. Looking at the location of the capacitors, they may not be directly associated with power to the Ram but are undoubtedly having a bad effect.

The Abit NF7 V2.0 is one motherboard of choice. The S2 version is not as good.
I highly recommend the very cheap and wonderfully clockable Asus A7N8x-x. Its a single channel DDR board (not that it matters on XP CPU's). It doesnt have soundstorm though. If you currently use and like soundstorm, get another board that has it. The Abit AN7 is one such board but not the cheapest. My AN7 is running in single channel DDR mode and is lovely
There are many good Nforce V2.0 boards.

If you choose not to keep your PC relatively clean inside you will suffer other component failures as well. I seriously recommend giving it a clean every 6 months at least given the amount of dust you say gets accumulated.
All heatsinks/fans and components need a good dusting off.
You may like to try using ladies tights as air filters before/on your case fans. A loose wire mesh cage should be made to lay the tights over if attaching directly to your fans. Clean the filter even more regularly as it will accumulate dust faster than a raw fan will.

My PC also get dirty quickly, its just one of those things.

Good luck getting a nice motherboard
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Old 12th January, 2005, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernobyl
To answer your second post first.
Its highly likely the caps are the reason you saw stability problems with your Ram. Power to the Ram needs to be pretty stable. To take it a stage further, there is a device which sits in a Ram slot which stabilises the Ram power and gives more headroom for overclocking. Looking at the location of the capacitors, they may not be directly associated with power to the Ram but are undoubtedly having a bad effect.

The Abit NF7 V2.0 is one motherboard of choice. The S2 version is not as good.
I highly recommend the very cheap and wonderfully clockable Asus A7N8x-x. Its a single channel DDR board (not that it matters on XP CPU's). It doesnt have soundstorm though. If you currently use and like soundstorm, get another board that has it. The Abit AN7 is one such board but not the cheapest. My AN7 is running in single channel DDR mode and is lovely
There are many good Nforce V2.0 boards.

If you choose not to keep your PC relatively clean inside you will suffer other component failures as well. I seriously recommend giving it a clean every 6 months at least given the amount of dust you say gets accumulated.
All heatsinks/fans and components need a good dusting off.
You may like to try using ladies tights as air filters before/on your case fans. A loose wire mesh cage should be made to lay the tights over if attaching directly to your fans. Clean the filter even more regularly as it will accumulate dust faster than a raw fan will.

My PC also get dirty quickly, its just one of those things.

Good luck getting a nice motherboard
ok, ok...but there are 8 "broken" caps!! there are six to the left of the cpu and those two on the picture which are below. one of the caps must have affected the memories cuz they don't work!! and the mobo gives a memory error, C1!! but one way or another, i really need to change my mobo, right?

concerning the motherboard, i heard that the NF7-S Rev 2.0 is excellent isn't it? the plain NF7 is actually better? how about the Asus A7N8x-x, it' better than the Abit? or just more overclockable...but i prefer abit to asus anyways, at least for AMD...and the an7 is more expensive than i'd like it to be...

please help me as soon as possible with this choice cuz i have to buy it by the end of this week!
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Old 13th January, 2005, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunobm
ok, ok...but there are 8 "broken" caps!! there are six to the left of the cpu and those two on the picture which are below. one of the caps must have affected the memories cuz they don't work!! and the mobo gives a memory error, C1!! but one way or another, i really need to change my mobo, right?

concerning the motherboard, i heard that the NF7-S Rev 2.0 is excellent isn't it? the plain NF7 is actually better? how about the Asus A7N8x-x, it' better than the Abit? or just more overclockable...but i prefer abit to asus anyways, at least for AMD...and the an7 is more expensive than i'd like it to be...

please help me as soon as possible with this choice cuz i have to buy it by the end of this week!
Its likely that more than 1 capacitor is now responsible for your Ram instability and failure to POST (or they will be soon!).
Its your choice to repair or replace
All the dodgy looking capacitors should be replaced.
I would also replace any others that are of the same type too, you dont want to go through this again.

Yes the NF7-S Rev 2.0 is a top board. As for another board being better, thats up to whether it has the features you want. Clocking is a hit/miss thing even on the Ultra boards.
Paying money for a Dual Channel DDR board if you arent going to use Dual channel can be avoided if that Asus board (and others) fits your bill. You can clock a little higher using Single Channel mode on the Dual boards too.

Using an unlocked chip makes it easier to test the CPU/motherboard limits
Some NF7 V2.0 boards clock way beyond 240MHz FSB (480MHz DDR), some struggle to make 215MHz in Dual Channel mode. If you arent clocking, your choice is down to the motherboard features.
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Old 17th January, 2005, 08:22 PM
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i sent my motherboard to a place where they fix it, told em about the apparent problems with the caps and about the memory warning...

the deadline finishied and they still haven't fixed my board...they changed the caps and said it still doesn't work!

what else could the problem be?
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Old 17th January, 2005, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunobm
i sent my motherboard to a place where they fix it, told em about the apparent problems with the caps and about the memory warning...

the deadline finishied and they still haven't fixed my board...they changed the caps and said it still doesn't work!

what else could the problem be?

Oops, I wouldnt have paid someone to do that in case as you say it still doesnt work.

Its difficult to diagnose a dead board without any diagnostic equipment. I take it you are still getting the C1 error?
The CMOS must have been reset by now (battery removal etc). If not, reset the CMOS again. Try using only known working parts in the board for testing.
Start off with the bare minimum (Ram, CPU).
Look for any way of making the C1 error change and let us know if it does.

Good luck
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Old 18th January, 2005, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernobyl
To answer your second post first.
Its highly likely the caps are the reason you saw stability problems with your Ram. Power to the Ram needs to be pretty stable. To take it a stage further, there is a device which sits in a Ram slot which stabilises the Ram power and gives more headroom for overclocking. Looking at the location of the capacitors, they may not be directly associated with power to the Ram but are undoubtedly having a bad effect.

The Abit NF7 V2.0 is one motherboard of choice. The S2 version is not as good.
I highly recommend the very cheap and wonderfully clockable Asus A7N8x-x. Its a single channel DDR board (not that it matters on XP CPU's). It doesnt have soundstorm though. If you currently use and like soundstorm, get another board that has it. The Abit AN7 is one such board but not the cheapest. My AN7 is running in single channel DDR mode and is lovely
There are many good Nforce V2.0 boards.

If you choose not to keep your PC relatively clean inside you will suffer other component failures as well. I seriously recommend giving it a clean every 6 months at least given the amount of dust you say gets accumulated.
All heatsinks/fans and components need a good dusting off.
You may like to try using ladies tights as air filters before/on your case fans. A loose wire mesh cage should be made to lay the tights over if attaching directly to your fans. Clean the filter even more regularly as it will accumulate dust faster than a raw fan will.

My PC also get dirty quickly, its just one of those things.

Good luck getting a nice motherboard
ok dude....but why is the s2 version not as good?
i'm having trouble finding the s rev2.0, all i can find is the s2...
can someone explain why the s2 is not as good???
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Old 18th January, 2005, 09:46 PM
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The S2 doesnt have Soundstorm
I pm'd you too brunobm
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Old 18th January, 2005, 11:22 PM
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Apparently (I don't own the S2, so I'm not speaking from personal experience) the S2 doesn't offer the same range of overclocking options that you get with the NF7-S. And even with a hacked BIOS to get the full range, the board just doesn't OC as well in general.

That being said, outside of the OC realm the NF7-S2 is a fine board.
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Old 18th January, 2005, 11:31 PM
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Damn, I knew there was something else
Been up 31hrs researching, time to rest
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Old 19th January, 2005, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo
Apparently (I don't own the S2, so I'm not speaking from personal experience) the S2 doesn't offer the same range of overclocking options that you get with the NF7-S. And even with a hacked BIOS to get the full range, the board just doesn't OC as well in general.

That being said, outside of the OC realm the NF7-S2 is a fine board.
damn, i love overclocking....and with a tbred b here that can go from 1.53ghz to 2.5ghz easily its a shame if the motherboard is a limit...

any alternative board?
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Old 19th January, 2005, 03:19 AM
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Pretty much everybody agrees that the NF7-S Rev 2 is a fine OC board, even if a little long in the tooth now. The AN7 is a fine board as well, if you can tolerate the quirks of that danged µ-Guru circuit (I couldn't).

Cadaveca swears by the Gigabyte 7N400 series boards.

The DFI Lanparty boards are good as well.

There are more than a few here who have a favorite Asus or EPoX board. If I were in the market for a new mobo right now, I'd probably go with the EPoX 8RDA6+.
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