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CRASHED! A topic for SEVERE and immediate Hardware and Operating System FAILURES. We will try to get you up again. NOT for Optimization questions!


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Old 19th February, 2002, 07:15 AM
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Strange Problem. Defunct Hardware?

Hi, I'm really curious as to what my problem is, and you guys seem really to be able to help, so here it is,

I guess the story beings in my homebrew, celery 633@950 system. Running at 1.95v with the vid pins, in a SOYO 7VCA2 motherboard I was really quite fond of. Stable with a FOP32 HS. With a geforce ddr, sblive value, and an generic 10mbit nic.

Well so to do a project, i borrow my friend's CD burner, and install it. Things are going fine, and while i'm burning a cd i leave the room and come back a few minutes later. The computer is off for some strange reason. Well, I try turning it back on, but to no avail, it seems the power switch doesnt work. Hum. So then i unplug the power cable, plug it back in, and switch the computer back on. BAM. I blow a capacitor. YAY.

Fast Forward to last week.

I've got a cheap new motherboard, a Spacewalker Shuttle AV11. Once again with the vid pins, running a celery 566@952@1.9v. Been using it for a couple weeks, with no problems, other than the fact that the USB ports dont seem to work, though windows can detect new usb devices, they never seem to be powered. Strange? With geforce ddr and sblive from the old system, this new one atleast gets the job done. Well, my harddrive crashes, so i pickup a new 20GB WD 7200RPM drive as a quick replacement, and decide to install WinXP. Unforturately, I have never gotten WINXP or WIN2K to work with my AMD nic. It always seems to install properly, and windows reports no errors, but it never seem so be 'on' the network. I think its something to do with the fact that it's using the nic's other output (the big phone line one), instead of the COAX one that my network uses.

ARGH. Well i finally giveup, and remember I still have my old NIC from the capacitor blown SOYO system that has worked flawlessly with XP b4, so i go downstairs and grab it. I install it in an ISA slot, and power up the system. SMOKE. LOTS OF IT. The nic is burning, and it reeks pretty badly. Well I franticly powerdown the system, and examine it. Yep. The NIC was burning. WOOHOO. I curse, put the PCI AMD NIC back in, and powerback up. Everything seems fine except for some reason I have no sound. Havent touched the sblive or anything. Just no all of the sudden there's no sound. Well i think i might have somehow fried the sblive too now, and moan. So i grab an old Yamaha OPL-3 ISA soundcard and install it. It installs properly, but strangely no sound again. Windows reports nothing wrong. So, I take out the voltage vidpins, and run it at stock 566. Still no sound. I reset the bios. Still no sound with either soundcard.

Well now i'm kinda frustrated. So i reformat and reinstall win98 so i can make use of my AMD NIC. I put back the sblive, and get everything up. Well win98 dectects my sblive, and I install the drivers, which gives my a blue screen of death after i'm done. Hum. So I restart, and i get a "windows protection error" and it restarts, and the error comes up again. YAY. I remove the sblive. No problems. I put back the OPL-3, get it installed, seems fine. AGAIN NO SOUND FROM THE SPEAKERS. And yes i'm certain they're on, and i've tried another set as well to no avail. I switch vid cards. Still no sound.

Well I borrow a friend's sblive to try in my computer, and it performs the same way mine does. At his place, my sblive works fine in his sytem. I guess something must be wrong with the motherboard??? But there are not any more symptoms... Nothing else seems to be wrong, only this strange nosound problem. I switch powersupplies, with a 300W, but still doesnt not solve the problem.

I give up, and go buy an ASUS TUV4X. Everything is fine. The sblive works, I hear nice glorious sound again. But then i find out I cant adjust the core voltage. D'oH! Well i return the motherboard and get it exchanged for a ASUS TUA266 which I believe can switch vcore voltages. Right? Well it hasnt arrived yet, hopefully tomorrow.

So right now i'm back to the Shuttle AV11 with no sound, but with a seemingly working soundcard. I've got enough parts to build another system, so i figure i'll donate it to the school newspaper, but i'd like to fix the sound problem if i can. Does anyone have any ideas what could be the problem?

Yeah kinda long post, so an extra thanks in advance,

Joseph.
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Old 19th February, 2002, 03:51 PM
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Have you tried putting the soundcard into a known working PCI slot...it might be that when your NIC smoked it killed one or more of your PCI slots.

Do any of the PCI slots work ?

When I was running my old P3 id allways remove the vid pin voltage mod when installing new hadware and operating systems....im not saying thats he cause of your problems but I had some odd things happen with the vmodd in place.

I cant think of any obvious fix for this..it seems very odd that windows detects the soundcard but you get no sound....are you sure you dont have some sort of software fault...or the sound muted
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Old 19th February, 2002, 06:21 PM
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Holst is on to something there, make sure any of your PCI slots work for starters.

It definitely sounds like a motherboard issue.

BTW, you may want to try that old Soyo board now, it's possible that NIC you removed was causing your issues
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Old 19th February, 2002, 09:33 PM
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Assuming that there are no software issues...
It sounds like you may have lost the 12V line somewhere on the motherboard on the way to the PCI/ISA slots.

Most old NICs with the 10BASE-2 on (Coax) use a 12v to 9v converter to power the network interface itself. If your network card went up, it's possible that the converter died and took out the 12V rail on the motherboard. New NICs tend to go from 5v to 9v instead.

As fairly few devices actually use the 12V rail, there's a good chance you'd never notice. Soundcards tend to use 12v to power the output amplifiers, especially if they have a speaker out. Some soundcards use the 12v to provide regulated power to the output stages, as the 12v line is less likely to have lots of digital noise over it.

The 5v would still power all the logic circuitry, so the machine would still see the card, just you wouldn't hear the output.

If you have a multimeter, try checking the 12v line on an ISA socket, and see what you come up with.

AidanII
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Old 19th February, 2002, 10:12 PM
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Welcome to AOA, Chupacabras! I wish that you had less serious problems to report! AidanII's prescriptions seem wise to me. I pray nothing ever goes this nasty in my boxes. Can't stand that smell of burning transistors!
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Old 19th February, 2002, 10:35 PM
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Thanks for the quick replies,

Holst, all the PCI slots seem to 'work' with everything but the sblive. I stuck in an old rendition 2x00 PCI, and it worked fine. And yes it wasnt on mute, or i'd be kicking myself pretty good .

Pinky, it might have been the cause, but since the capacitor's blown, (from the motherboard), well yep, I'm not too keen on the idea of putting hardware back in, and frying those too, if at all i can even powerful it back up, i havent a clue, and as i tried to use my warrenty several months ago, and it was sent back to Taiwan. I havent heard of it since, so I guess that means they felt it wasnt a manufacturing defect.

Aidan, cloasters,
Yeah it sounds as if that could very well be the case. I have a multimeter, but i dont know where the 12 line in the ISA slot it, and the bios doesnt show the voltages. Cloasters, though the problem isnt *that* severe, i too wish it was something a little more on the simplier side

I dont suppose there's a cheap/simple way to 'fix' the 12v rail, if indeed that is the problem? Are there any 5V amp soundcards or should i just give up on the idea of hearing anything from the system ever again?

Oh, and about my AMD nic problem, with it only working with win9x, and not xp/2k? Any ideas about that one? Its not really vital i get it working with xp, though it would be nice. I guess that was the root of the problem, else i would never have switched nics, and did some unwanted cooking
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Old 20th February, 2002, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chupacabras

Pinky, it might have been the cause, but since the capacitor's blown, (from the motherboard), well yep, I'm not too keen on the idea of putting hardware back in, and frying those too
Whoops, did I miss that part??

Yup

Quote:
BAM. I blow a capacitor. YAY


I'll go back to my corner
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Old 20th February, 2002, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chupacabras
Yeah it sounds as if that could very well be the case. I have a multimeter, but i dont know where the 12 line in the ISA slot it, and the bios doesnt show the voltages.
Heh. The motherboard monitor chip may well read the voltage from a different point, so if you've killed a fuse, or destroyed a track then you're unlikely to know from that point..



This link gives a quick diagram of an ISA connector, and the most commonly used pins. If you want more detail, this link gives the complete pinout.

Look at the first link, then check to see that voltages are on the following pins:

+5V: B3, B29, D16
+12V: B9
-5V: B5,
-12V: B7

Careful you don't short out any pins, as this could destroy the motherboard.

AidanII
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Old 21st February, 2002, 04:06 AM
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Oh the humanity does the pain never cease?

Okay the Asus TUA266 just arrived. I've plugged in everything, made sure the speaker/power/lcds are plugged in properly. I powerup... and it turns on. Then powers down by its self.

Well hum. Another press of the power buton but no use, it wont turn on. The only way i can get it to turn on is to unplug the power cord, wait for the motherboard to discharge, and plug back. Unfortunately this only allows the power button to work once, and on powerdown it doesnt work again, and i must do that plugging etc again.

When it powers up, i can see the fans all spinning up, however there arent any post beeps or anything. No sounds at all. I've tried other videocards, no its of no use. The vid cards both AGP and PCI work, and are the only expansion cards installed. ACK!

Well i'm pretty sure the pcspeaker and such are installed properly, but maybe somehow they're not? The TUA4X took 5 mintues to setup, so i dunno, this doesnt look well.

WIth only a video card, and no harddrive it does the same thing, even if i have no harddisk, it should atleast be producing some error beeps right?

*SIGH*

Well, any ideas? Thanks.
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Old 21st February, 2002, 05:36 AM
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This many problems just ain't fair. Obviously! Can you try out the mainboard outside of a case? Putting it on a piece of wood(make sure the wood isn't treated to retard a fire--it's rare but possible) or even cardboard is OK. Having all the parts on a table is unorthodox, but I'm beginning to think that the mobo--or even another component is shorting out somewhere.
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Old 21st February, 2002, 04:02 PM
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This may sound a bit nuts but are the speakers OK ?
Maybee they got fried ?
Easy to test just plug them into a hifi or walkman.

Id take cloasters advice and ditch the case.

Get the Asus up on a phone book and lay out all the parts you have..then swap them around and see if you can figure out where the fault is.

Ive found that to be the easyest and safest way to troubleshoot...running outside the case isnt the most pleasant experience (scared me to death the first time) but its not as dangerous as it looks.

Oh..and if you have a cat (stares at eobard) lock it out of the room..cat on your motherboard is not good
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Old 3rd March, 2002, 01:05 AM
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Just as a follow up...

Well after i returned the asusTUA266 to get it repaired, guess what arrives.... THE SOYO that i tried claiming the warenty on, has come back, (at least a replacement one). Dang. I pick up the asus, and it works fine, however i cant return it since the store owner specially ordered it for me. JOY. Now i've got two new motherboards =)

Then luck strikes on my side for once, and my friend asks me he wants a cheap upgrade on his old PII300 to use at university. Pick up a $85cdn radeon, and a 1GHZ Tualatin, and presto, back to square one, having spent no money at all! Even better, now i've got quite the surplus of motherboards, and a replacement for the 12v rail burned Shuttle, as he didnt need the old Asus pPV4X (slot1), and gave it to me. Just need to pick up a converter card, and the pain will have ended . Funny how things work out in the end eh? Well atleast how they can kinda work out...

Thanks to all for the words of advice and encouragement.
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Old 3rd March, 2002, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chupacabras
Just as a follow up...

Well after i returned the asusTUA266 to get it repaired, guess what arrives.... THE SOYO that i tried claiming the warenty on, has come back, (at least a replacement one). Dang. I pick up the asus, and it works fine, however i cant return it since the store owner specially ordered it for me. JOY. Now i've got two new motherboards =)

Then luck strikes on my side for once, and my friend asks me he wants a cheap upgrade on his old PII300 to use at university. Pick up a $85cdn radeon, and a 1GHZ Tualatin, and presto, back to square one, having spent no money at all! Even better, now i've got quite the surplus of motherboards, and a replacement for the 12v rail burned Shuttle, as he didnt need the old Asus pPV4X (slot1), and gave it to me. Just need to pick up a converter card, and the pain will have ended . Funny how things work out in the end eh? Well atleast how they can kinda work out...

Thanks to all for the words of advice and encouragement.
Two words.

"Folding Farm "

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Old 3rd March, 2002, 02:40 AM
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You guys have been helpful, I'd like to give thanks, I've scanned through the folding@home thing, and have a few questions,

Do the machines have to be dedicated to just folding? Or does it run when i'm not doing anything? If its the latter, i guess i'll join the team and help you guys out. If they do need to be dedicated, i guess i could sacrafice the 12v rail fried one for folding atleast until there's some urgent need for another computer,

I've got a lan full of celerons at home at the moment, and just need 2 cases so i can rebuild the other systems, they're not exactly the fastest, but every little bit helps right?

Celerons@900, 900, 950, 1067 that could be used to fold if they can while just idle, dont exactly want to do anything on my net gateway machine tho.

Once again, thanks.

And BTW, kinda a stupid question, but our cpu cycles are used find the some cure right.... not by some evil corporation designing some weapon of mass destruction? These days you can never be sure
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Old 20th December, 2004, 02:36 AM
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i had a similar problem with my motherboard, I was using the onboard sound.

To start with, i lost power to my case fan which was being powered by the motherboard, and then i lost my onboard sound quickly after. When i tried my SB PCI, that wouldn't work either, but for some reason other type of cards i tried in the PCI slots worked, just no sound.

My solution was to get a new mobo under warranty.

Since my new mobo, my SB works aswell. A possible explanation i got was that there was a problem with voltage on the mobo, and eventually everything would fail. Could be the same problem you are looking at.

My motherboard is an ECS Elitegroup 661FX-M, although i was assured that the only common problem with them is the support of the Prescott processors in the BIOS.
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    Main machine                Gateway machine         Wifey's machine
O/S WIN XP Pro SP1              SuSE 9.2                WIN XP Pro SP2
CPU 2.8 Celeron D               1Ghz Pentium III        2.4 Celeron D
RAM 768MB PC2700                512MB PC133             512mb PC2700
HDS 40GB Excelstar              20GB Quantum Fireball   40GB
VID XFX FX6600GT 128MB          NVidia 2 MX400 32MB     O/B AGP Video
MOB Eliteforce ECS 661FX-M      DELL                    DELL
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Old 20th December, 2004, 02:48 AM
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Just another thought, your PSU, is it the right wattage for what you need?!?

to work out the wattage use the table i added below...

Component Wattage Rail
Motherboard 20-30W 3.3V & 5V
Pentium III 38W 5V
Pentium 4 70W 12V
Athlon XP 70W 12V
Athlon 64 70W 12V
RAM 8W p/128MB 3.3V
PCI Card 5W 5V
AGP Card 30-50W 3.3V
IDE HDD 10-20W 5V & 12V
Floppy 5W 5V
Optical Drive 10-25W 5V & 12V
Case Fans 3W 12V

Add all your device wattage up using the table above, and then multiply that by 1.8 and that should be the minimum PSU wattage you should have.

Hope that sorts some problems out aswell
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    Main machine                Gateway machine         Wifey's machine
O/S WIN XP Pro SP1              SuSE 9.2                WIN XP Pro SP2
CPU 2.8 Celeron D               1Ghz Pentium III        2.4 Celeron D
RAM 768MB PC2700                512MB PC133             512mb PC2700
HDS 40GB Excelstar              20GB Quantum Fireball   40GB
VID XFX FX6600GT 128MB          NVidia 2 MX400 32MB     O/B AGP Video
MOB Eliteforce ECS 661FX-M      DELL                    DELL
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