EP-8DRA Why Is The CPU Sitting SO Far Off Center.

CooledByWater · #1 (**permalink**) 7th December, 2002, 05:45 PM

Has anyone else notice this problem? My W/B which has a center channel does not go over the DIE as it did with the 8K3A+. In fact my center channel is now 3/16" off to the side while using the 4 mounting holes. This Mobo is going back. Thank god I never mounted it. This is going to cause many problems with those that water cool and have either jet sprayer that is to spraying over the center of the DIE or have water passing over the center of the DIE. Take a look at this photos. The mounting holes are not alligned with the socket compared to other mobo's as well as other epox boards.

http://members.cox.net/azkht/CENTER%20CPU.jpg

The blue mark on the ruler is the centline of the CPU.

http://members.cox.net/azkht/DTEK%20TOP.jpg

Iron_Dreamer · #2 (**permalink**) 7th December, 2002, 08:32 PM

Sheesh, glad mine wasn't like that. I have the PAL8045 mounted just fine. I think that one is probably flawed to be that off-center.

CooledByWater · #3 (**permalink**) 7th December, 2002, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Dreamer
Sheesh, glad mine wasn't like that. I have the PAL8045 mounted just fine. I think that one is probably flawed to be that off-center.

I would bet your mobo is the same way. These mobos are built to the same specs. They (EPOX) has to follow guidelines set by AMD. To say mine wasn't that way is hard to believe. All REV 1.0 boards have this problem.

It's not a problem if you are air cooling, but if you are water-cooling this could be a huge problem. Take a Spir@l or a Gemini block that has the the center barb that is to be centered over the DIE and its off to one side. Now if you are using a water block that clips to the socket you do not have a problem. This problem is contain to using the 4 holes in the mobo.

Warehouse · #4 (**permalink**) 7th December, 2002, 10:11 PM

ET, this is very serious, please look into this.

I havent gotten my tc-4 block yet so im not completely sure mines wrong.

CooledByWater · #5 (**permalink**) 7th December, 2002, 10:49 PM

Here is another image. The blue line represents the center of the DIE. The yellow line represents the center of the block or the center of any block. In my case I am using the TC-4 so the yellow line is the center of the water channel thats to run over the center of the DIE.

Again if you are using a water block with a center barb you can see the problem. This may not seem like a big distance, but then look at some of the water blocks that this will affect and it is a big problem.

http://members.cox.net/azkht/Off%20Center%201.jpg

muzz · #6 (**permalink**) 7th December, 2002, 11:20 PM

I saw you post this earlier, but refused to post.......... I see exactly what your pointing to, but my Q is so what? It looks like it's a little off center, that means your not going to get 100% percent cooling because it's off center( if you have a center fed block... LIKE MINE- not yours). YOU will probably be BETTER off with that block you are using, because the cool water will come in CLOSER to the center of the core than if it was centered.

I have nothing against you man really I don't, so I hope you don't take this wrong, but you have been complaining about these issues with the board since even B4 you got it... now you have it and you haven't even hooked it up, but are still looking it over and complaining about it. I don't get it man, if you don't like the board why don't you just take it back instead of going on and on about it's faults?
Your talking maybe 1% cooling difference at most, and with high flow rates it's not (IMHO) going to make hardly any difference at all.
As far as I know blow+suck fan setups don't work any better than just blowing through the rad with a shroud and a good fan......... I know this because I did it, and it didn't do squat, then I learned from other folks who had been doing h2o cooling for a long time, and after some testing they came to the same conclusion..........

Like I said man I hope you don't take this as a slam, it's not intended to be.
This is MY opinion for what it's worth.

O and BTW ET has nothing to do with this, so I don't know what you think he is going to be able to do... actually I think he would laugh.

Warehouse · #7 (**permalink**) 7th December, 2002, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by muzz

O and BTW ET has nothing to do with this, so I don't know what you think he is going to be able to do... actually I think he would laugh.

actually i large part of the reason ET, even posts here is to get customer feedback. So don't even say that ET, doesnt have "anything" to do with this. While he may not have direct control/influence, he can put a flag up to let people who can do something about it know.

Israfel · #8 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 12:02 AM

well, what the hell is he going to do about it anyway?

Build a special new motherboard for you?

Give you guys a pacifier?

One thing I don't like... watercoolers complaning... if the freakin' thing is like a 3/16" off... You won't even notice a difference! I saw we strap to 120mm Delta fans on full up to your ears, make them bleed... then see how you feel about 3/16th's of an inch... ¬_¬

whoreable · #9 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 12:12 AM

although it might make no difference it is still something that is interesting to know. it does seem strange that the holes are aligned differently than other boards. it at least alerts some people that might be loking to watercool hopefully it won't be an issue with my maze 3.

but yes i agree that there is nothing we can do about it.

Warehouse · #10 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Israfel
well, what the hell is he going to do about it anyway?

Build a special new motherboard for you?

Give you guys a pacifier?

One thing I don't like... watercoolers complaning... if the freakin' thing is like a 3/16" off... You won't even notice a difference! I saw we strap to 120mm Delta fans on full up to your ears, make them bleed... then see how you feel about 3/16th's of an inch... ¬_¬

Youre totally missing the point. After reading your "serious problem" thread about the IDE controllers, I would not be acting so high and mighty if I were you.

My point was that muzz stated that ET had nothing to do with it, when quiet clearly the only reason that the Epox reps are here is to get feedback about there products and help people with them. Maybe now that I've typed that twice now it will make sense.

I have a feeling this thread is going to be closed.

Warehouse · #11 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Israfel

One thing I don't like... watercoolers complaning... if the freakin' thing is like a 3/16" off... You won't even notice a difference! I saw we strap to 120mm Delta fans on full up to your ears, make them bleed... then see how you feel about 3/16th's of an inch... ¬_¬

3/16 of an inch makes a big difference. Its the difference between drilled out channel and solid copper, in almost every block. Please do not attack something that you do not understand.

EluSiOn · #12 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 12:52 AM

Hey guys... do not comment on things you don't understand...

You guys are way to mean. This is a help forum and people suppose try to help each other. If you can't help out, you should have the courtesy to keep quiet.

CooledByWater got a bad 8RDA+ with off position 4 mounting holes. Because on my 8RDA+, my water block lines up perfect to the center of the cpu die. It might not matter to air cooling people but it is a huge difference for water cooling.

Quote:

3/16 of an inch makes a big difference

The difference is going to be greater for those direct die water blocks. For MAZE or Spir@l maybe less... but the lowered performance margin definately defeat the purpose of water cooling on that motherboard. CooledByWater probably better off to use HSF to cool his cpu properly.

By the way... MAZE3 fits perfect on my 8RDA+, so whoreable, dont worry about it. However... CooledByWater should RMA his board because his board is not made to the SPEC.

Warehouse · #13 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EluSiOn
Hey guys... do not comment on things you don't understand...

You guys are way to mean. This is a help forum and people suppose try to help each other. If you can't help out, you should have the courtesy to keep quiet.

CooledByWater got a bad 8RDA+ with off position 4 mounting holes. Because on my 8RDA+, my water block lines up perfect to the center of the cpu die. It might not matter to air cooling people but it is a huge difference for water cooling.

The difference is going to be greater for those direct die water blocks. For MAZE or Spir@l maybe less... but the lowered performance margin definately defeat the purpose of water cooling on that motherboard. CooledByWater probably better off to use HSF to cool his cpu properly.

By the way... MAZE3 fits perfect on my 8RDA+, so whoreable, dont worry about it. However... CooledByWater should RMA his board because his board is not made to the SPEC.

Thanks, you put it better than I did

Making the rounds eh? I suppose since we solved in on the other forums its only right to fix it here too.

Kosmic1 · #14 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 01:10 AM

Definitely serious rudeness happening in this forum lately. Let's at least be civil in our disagreements. I'm sure we've all unjustly complained about something in our past, so to condem somebody else for doing the same thing is pointless.

Now back on topic: I don't really understand how the holes could be "off" on one motherboard and not on another since as CBW said, they're manufactured to very tight specs. I'm cooling with air and *really* don't feel like taking off my HS to see if the holes line up but I suppose if I do go water eventually, *because of this thread* I will go with a clip on mount. So *thank you* CBW for providing us with more information than we had before.

By the way, didja hook it up to see how your cooling performance is affected?

Warehouse · #15 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kosmic1
Definitely serious rudeness happening in this forum lately. Let's at least be civil in our disagreements. I'm sure we've all unjustly complained about something in our past, so to condem somebody else for doing the same thing is pointless.

Now back on topic: I don't really understand how the holes could be "off" on one motherboard and not on another since as CBW said, they're manufactured to very tight specs. I'm cooling with air and *really* don't feel like taking off my HS to see if the holes line up but I suppose if I do go water eventually, *because of this thread* I will go with a clip on mount. So *thank you* CBW for providing us with more information than we had before.

By the way, didja hook it up to see how your cooling performance is affected?

yah im definately not diggn, that mud that was being tossed around.

However Kosmic, I have spent a good 20-30 min comparing the pic he provided and my cpu + holes. They are not the same. I dont know how this could be but my holes are aligned, his are not.

EluSiOn · #16 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 01:18 AM

let's not advertise other forum here...

The mods dun like that...

If you want to post here.... obey their rules... they made it very clear about that...

muzz, by the way, CooledByWater was super excited about Epox 8RDA+. He started a thread on another forum with the title Epox 8dra+ This Is The Board To Own

Quote:

Epox 8dra+ This Is The Board To Own
Here is a link to a thread that you don't want to pass up. If your interested in the new 8DRA+ thats about to be released.

CLICK

11-16-2002 07:09 PM EST

He loves epox and he loves that board before it was out. He was anxious to find info about this board.

Also, it is a serious issue... so I have to take out my mobo to verify the mounting holes and compare to the pics posted by CBW

Warehouse · #17 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EluSiOn
let's not advertise other forum here...

The mods dun like that...

If you want to post here.... obey their rules... they made it very clear about that...

muzz, by the way, CooledByWater was super excited about Epox 8RDA+. He started a thread on another forum with the title Epox 8dra+ This Is The Board To Own

He loves epox and he loves that board before it was out. He was anxious to find info about this board.

Also, it is a serious issue... so I have to take out my mobo to verify the mounting holes and compare to the pics posted by CBW

I can vouch for this.

CooledByWater · #18 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 05:41 PM

I am not even going to touch the crap from above. 3/16 is the width of the channels in a Gemini High Volume water block. If a block is design to have water coming into the block from the center barb over the DIE then the Gemini will miss the mark badly.

This was more of a heads up for those that may have a different water block. We all learn from each other. I see a problem and a few want to drag me over the burning flame for going public with it. I started a thread for those that have had great results with the mobo because I got tired of reading complaints and would bet many of the problems are brought on by the user because they don't understand how to setup a mobo. This is NOT a problem brought on by me, but bought by me. Yes the board is going back, yes I take personal pride in looking a board over once I receive it. I have a choice and so do others, sometimes the truth hurts, but AMD gives strict guidelines to follow.

This is why bolt pattern on P/S are all the same, the width of CD drives are the same, AGP slots are the same, mobo mounting holes are the same, ram sockets are the same, and I could go on and on. Guidelines have to be followed or we all would have many components that do not fit.

nfrenay · #19 (**permalink**) 8th December, 2002, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CooledByWater
This is why bolt pattern on P/S are all the same, the width of CD drives are the same, AGP slots are the same, mobo mounting holes are the same, ram sockets are the same, and I could go on and on. Guidelines have to be followed or we all would have many components that do not fit. [/b]

This is a pretty good point... I totally agree with CooledByWater...

I don't know if all the boards have this problem, but I really can't see just ONE board going with such a big error of the holes position... We are talking about almost 5mm error...

Considering that my home-made block (finished it today...

) has a main channel of approximatelly 7mm diameter, this is very important... Instead of having the die positioned directly with the water intake you will have it in line mostly with cooper around the channels... That's surely not nice...

Hope ET can comment on this...