Can you Epox guys help here?

[Road_Runner]

Hey guys,

Found this forum recently. Great idea to have some Epox guys here.

Sent this email to Epox tech support yesterday...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Fray" <frayr@sc.rr.com>
To: <support@epox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:26 AM
Subject: Problem with my motherboard


> --Technical support form results--
>
> Name: Rich Fray
> E-mail: frayr@sc.rr.com
>
> Model: EP-8KHA+
> REV: ?
> Serial #Dont know
> Vendor: Newegg
> Purchased: 10-24-2001
>
> Bios: 10-05-2001
> CPU: AMD 1800XP+
> RAM: 256 Megs Corsair XMS2400
> VGA: Visiontek GeForce3 Ti500
> Drive: IBM
> O/S: Windows 2000
> Other:
>
> --Details--
> I installed your 8KHA+ motherboard about 2 weeks ago. The motherboard and
memory replaced an older motherboard and memory combination I had. All my
other hardware including the power supply are the same. The Power Supply is
an Enermax 430 watt psu.
>
> Two problems. Most times when rebooting system it will not start. First,
it shuts down normally but then, when it should start it's rebooting
process, it just sits there with no video although all other fans, and
power to case/mobo appears to be on. It will only reboot at that point if I
press the reset button (sometimes I'll have to go through an attemtped
reboot only to have to hit the reset button 2-3 times before it will boot
successfully.
>
> Second, about once a day, with no rhyme or reason, whether surfing the
internet, playing solitaire, or reading email, it just shuts off completely
and instantly. The screen goes black and it powers down. Then, I have to go
through the reset button headache to get it start up again.
>
> I've checked for shorts and found none. I suspected psu problems but this
430 watt Enermax is about 6 months old and worked flawlessly with my last
motherboard. The voltages for the psu's 3.3v,5v, and 12v rails all show
3.4,5.0, and 12.4 respectively so the psu is putting out the right amount of
power and the motherboard appears to be getting the right amount of power.
>
> I've seen a number of other people having strange rebooting and power
reset issues at several AMD motherboard hardware enthusiast sites so
apparently, mine is not an isolated case.
>
> I can't keep using the pc with these problems. I use this pc for work and
expected a more reliable solution when I bought your board. I've built at
least 30 systems for myself, family, and friends so I'm reasonably skilled in
assembly and troubleshooting. This has me stumped.
>
> What do we do? Please contact me as soon as possible.
>
>

then got a canned response as follows...

Dear User,
Sorry for the trouble you have been experiencing. Try these trouble
shooting steps.
1) Power off. Check JBAT1 for CMOS CLEAR. Set for CLEAR for 5 seconds
than back to NORMAL.
2) Check power supply. Set for 110/115v, not 220 if in USA.
3) Unplug all data cables for IDE and FDD from the motherboard.
4) Unplug all power supply cables attaching to your IDE and FDD devices.
5) Remove all cards and devices EXCEPT for RAM and CPU.
6) Move memory into different bank.
7) Unplug CPU and replug back in.
8) Ensure heatsink/fan is attached to processor properly and the fan is
attached to power connectors.
9) Retest.
10) If 1-9 do not help power off and test motherboard outside case.
Perhaps a motherboard short between the case an board is present.
11) Remount in case. Ensure to use proper brass or plastic standoffs
when mounting case (supplied with case).
12) Possible defective RAM, CPU, POWER SUPPLY or MOTHERBOARD. Swap out
as many as possible to narrow down culprit.
13) Inspect the memory configuration table carefully in the manual and
be sure to use compatible memory modules.




Best Regards,

================================================
Technical Support (JM)
EPoX International, Inc. USA
E-Mail: Support@epox.com
Web: www.epox.com
Please provide previous E-mail text if replying.
Specifications subject to change without notice.


Apparently, they send this response to anyone with problems with the board because, had they read my email, it would have addressed a number of things they told me to do. Bottom line is, my hardware AND new processor work fine if I throw them on a different board (MSI KT266A board) and don't work fine with my Epox 8KHA+. Can you give me any better suggestions to try?

[EPoX Tech]

I would ensure use of the BIOS of 02/11/01 (the latest on the epox.com site) and perhaps try a different PSU as a precautionary measure.

Sparkle are renowned (and recommended by staffer Jeff) for there stability with 3 and 4 phase boards such as 8KHA+ and 8K7A respectively.

I do appreciate that the response looks pretty pre-assembled, however it is a great punch list for checking the system.

A word of advice too - when sending to companies for support - never tell them how many systems that you have built or perhaps that you work in computers or something. If you are an unknown quantity with no expected knowledge you will be given all the advice possible with no mis-conceptions made of your ability.

[Road_Runner]

Originally posted by EPoX Tech
I would ensure use of the BIOS of 02/11/01 (the latest on the epox.com site) and perhaps try a different PSU as a precautionary measure.

Sparkle are renowned (and recommended by staffer Jeff) for there stability with 3 and 4 phase boards such as 8KHA+ and 8K7A respectively.

I do appreciate that the response looks pretty pre-assembled, however it is a great punch list for checking the system.

A word of advice too - when sending to companies for support - never tell them how many systems that you have built or perhaps that you work in computers or something. If you are an unknown quantity with no expected knowledge you will be given all the advice possible with no mis-conceptions made of your ability.

thanks for the suggestions and input. I do have the 11/02/01 bios downloaded so I'll try that tonight. "Trying" a different psu is kind of an expensive guess but I guess I can return it if problem is not solved. I'll look into the Sparkles. I had one before that didn't work that great but that was some time ago and I was using a far different setup at the time.

[Random Nonsense]

Well EPoX and Enermax are know to be a problematic pair! took me a while to get my hands on my sparkle PSU.... i've had no problems so far!

do any of your friends have a PSU of around 350 - 400 watts you could try out for free for a day?

[Road_Runner]

Originally posted by Random Nonsense
Well EPoX and Enermax are know to be a problematic pair! took me a while to get my hands on my sparkle PSU.... i've had no problems so far!

do any of your friends have a PSU of around 350 - 400 watts you could try out for free for a day?

none of my friends know what overclocking a pc is, much less what kind of psu they have. They're lucky to find their start button. The chances of one of them having a 350-400 watter are slim.

I'll try a sparkle and if it doesn't fix it I'll return it or save it until I bulid another system for someone. Thanks for the input!

[Jon]

Antec has been very good to me with the EPoX boards as well. Need at least a 350W in my opinion, though. My 300W does an admirable job, I just have too much loaded on it.

[mrpcman]

I have had quite a few sparkle psu's in the past and would have to say they are one of the best imo.

[Random Nonsense]

Not sure if ANTEC have this feature.... but Sparkle have a fan controlled by temperature mine never goes on tho! guess i keep my room too cold!

[dimmreaper]

Originally posted by Random Nonsense
Not sure if ANTEC have this feature.... but Sparkle have a fan controlled by temperature mine never goes on tho! guess i keep my room too cold!

Not sure if my Sparkle 350W has ther thermistor controlled fan or not. But now that you mention it, it sounds quieter tonight with the window cracked than it did this after-noon with the window closed. I planned on replacing mine with a Panaflow 24CFM Ball-Bearing model anyway when it comes in, for extra-reliability sake.

A friend of mine built a system with an Enermax psu, I don't remember which model he used. He also had a lot problem with system stability.
He did some researches and found out that there was problem with the 5 V stability. He even called Enermax and they admitted they had problems with that model.

[Caper]

Hey..that´s me :-)
I used Epox 8K7A and Enermax 431w ps, even tried the 550 w Enermax.
The combination 8K7A/Enermax worked perfect with no stabilty problems until I started to do some heavy o/c.

Tb 1.4@1.7 using 2.1 vcore draws a LOT of power, combine that with cranking mem voltage to 2.9, voltmodded GF3 and you will need a ps that have a good 5v line.
The Enermax was just not good enough, my 5v under full load was way too low.
Vcore that was set to 2.1 sunk to 1.89 under full load.

Switched to a PC Power and Cooling supply and the stability problems under o/c was gone.
My friend had the same problem with his Enermax, there we switched to Antec´s 400 w ps and the problems was gone.

[Rayzor]

Road_Runner! Please excuse me, nothing against you, and I'm not lookin to crap on your thread or anything, I just would like to know,from "Powers that Be" Why! when I posted the EXACT SAME email from epox, the "Powers that Be" here Censured it???
[B]E-MAIL REMOVED (against Epox's confidentiality rulings to display our e-mails else where.)

Originally posted by Road_Runner
[B
Sent this email to Epox tech support yesterday...

>

then got a canned response as follows...

Dear User,
Sorry for the trouble you have been experiencing. Try these trouble
shooting steps.
1) Power off. Check JBAT1 for CMOS CLEAR. Set for CLEAR for 5 seconds
than back to NORMAL.
2) Check power supply. Set for 110/115v, not 220 if in USA.
3) Unplug all data cables for IDE and FDD from the motherboard.
4) Unplug all power supply cables attaching to your IDE and FDD devices.
5) Remove all cards and devices EXCEPT for RAM and CPU.
6) Move memory into different bank.
7) Unplug CPU and replug back in.
8) Ensure heatsink/fan is attached to processor properly and the fan is
attached to power connectors.
9) Retest.
10) If 1-9 do not help power off and test motherboard outside case.
Perhaps a motherboard short between the case an board is present.
11) Remount in case. Ensure to use proper brass or plastic standoffs
when mounting case (supplied with case).
12) Possible defective RAM, CPU, POWER SUPPLY or MOTHERBOARD. Swap out
as many as possible to narrow down culprit.
13) Inspect the memory configuration table carefully in the manual and
be sure to use compatible memory modules.




Best Regards,

================================================
Technical Support (JM)
EPoX International, Inc. USA
E-Mail: Support@epox.com
Web: www.epox.com
Please provide previous E-mail text if replying.
Specifications subject to change without notice.


Apparently, they send this response to anyone with problems with the board because, had they read my email, it would have addressed a number of things they told me to do. Bottom line is, my hardware AND new processor work fine if I throw them on a different board (MSI KT266A board) and don't work fine with my Epox 8KHA+. Can you give me any better suggestions to try?

Oh! Happy New Year BTW

[engineer]

By the way Road Runner did the psu swap fix your problem ?
I have the same enermax and see the 5v rail move around a fair amount.
There is a mod to help fix that.
As long as it doesnt way to much youd think if it can supply the needed current on that rail you would be fine.

[cpu-uk]

I had a psu recently that had worked for 2 years without a problem, then it went intermit (after a pc upgrade). Turned out that the a single cable was broken, and if the power loom was straight it worked, but if it was bent all the 12v stuff would work, but no m/b power up. With the loom somewhere in between reliability was scarey.

I only found the problem by dismatling everything, and trying it on the work bench.

[Daniel ~]

Originally posted by Rayzor
[B]Road_Runner! Please excuse me, nothing against you, and I'm not lookin to crap on your thread or anything, I just would like to know,from "Powers that Be" Why! when I posted the EXACT SAME email from epox, the "Powers that Be" here Censured it???
[B]E-MAIL REMOVED (against Epox's confidentiality rulings to display our e-mails else where.)





Oh! Happy New Year BTW

On the surface it would seem that there was indeed some inequality in the treatment of your posts. however several factors make this determination difficult for me to make.

among them, What if any were your previous post like? The fact that our EPoX Topic is something of a special case; as EPoX can and does change the rules as to what Our EPoX Tech can deal with.

Both yours and the other post begin with a complaint about how EPoX treats it's Customers. Yet I think you will agree that ALL Motherboard manufactures share in these short comings. After all, we the Hobbyist users, form a tiny percentage of their customer base.

The Topics purpose is to try and resolve difficulties when they occur, and increase overclockabilty where it can. I feel that it has been very successful in that regard.

However it is not, nor can it be a means of conflict resolution between EPoX and unhappy customers.

My post was an attempt to show you where your approach might be limiting the results you received.

In the Forums as a whole, I believe, you will find that the rules ARE in fact applied uniformly and as much as humanly possible without bias.

By enlarge I feel that this is the case in the EPoX Topic as well.

I cannot speak to what changes EPoX may or may not have made in policy. Your post may simply have been the last straw on the day you posted.

In any case I don't see that any great injustice was done. Someone slipped by where you did not. These things happen.

I hope you found the solution you were looking for.