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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 2nd March, 2003, 05:55 AM
~crucibelle~'s Avatar
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only want stable 166 fsb, cant get it (8rda+)

Hello everyone. Well, I've had my 8RDA+ going for about a month now. I've been having the same problem over the entire month, but I was trying to figure it out myself before I asked for any help. The problem is I cannot get my system "Prime95" stable at only 166 fsb (sync). I'm not even going for that magical 200+ fsb, all I want is 166! Everything else is stable - I've had no blue screens, crashes, or any other type of error in the entire month. But, Prime95 crashes on the FIRST test - and this is without running anything else in the background. I would imagine my whole system would lock up if I tried running it along with anything else I've tried lowering the fsb to 133 and running RAM at 166 - runs prime95 just fine. I've also tried upping the fsb to 166 and lowering the RAM to 133 - that also works fine. BUT, doing the two together causes the errors. I've ran memtest, and the RAM passes. I've tried all sorts of RAM timings to get it stable at 166/166 - doesn't work. As for voltage, I have not tried any vcore over 1.82. Would I need more than this for a 1600+ to run at 166 fsb?? I haven't tried Vdimm over 2.77. I thought for a while that my psu might be the problem - it is afterall, only 300 watts. But a review on Tom's hardware said that this psu actually puts out 390 watts. Maybe that's not enough either? I have noticed when I run Prime95 at 166/166 that my 5V rail drops to 4.6. However, I've also heard that the voltages are not reported correctly via USDM and other similar programs. It's been suggested to me to adjust the pots inside my psu, but I'm too afraid to do so - sounds particularly dangerous. I still have my cpu fan plugged in to the mobo, so today I picked up a 3 to 4 pin adapter to see if that helps any (haven't tried it yet, though). Also, I have not done any modifications to the stock cooling on the mobo (I didn't think I'd need to for just 166 fsb?). I've also not tried taking the JClK jumper off. Again, I didn't think I'd need to for such a relatively low fsb. If anyone has ANY ideas for me - please suggest something. I need to know which one (or more), if any of my components need to be replaced. By the way, anyone can dispute me on this if you feel like it, but I really don't think it's a problem with the motherboard. Thanks in advance!

oops - one more thing: I have the latest bios.

edit - sorry, i keep forgetting things. CPU temp is 36-37C Idle, and 40-42C load.

-jeanna
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Last edited by ~crucibelle~; 2nd March, 2003 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 2nd March, 2003, 06:31 AM
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Hi , You are on the right track and it seems you are doing your homework. Definately get that fan connector off of the motherboard header , I wouldn't get too worried about pulling that jclock jumper to a -no connection-status either. BUT , I wouldn't go trying to change anything inside of the power supply , that sounds downright dangerous and this is coming from someone who did the chipset voltage mod the hard way , I soldered two wires directly to the chip legs .
You don't mention your cpu or your memory stats , for instance if you have pc2100 memory it is rated for 133 FSB and if your getting it to go to 166 FSB in some programs you are already pushing it , DDR memory ratings are a bit confusing:
pc2100=133FSB=266DDR rate
pc2700=166FSB=333DDR rate
pc3200=199FSB=400DDR rate and then it gets real confusing
pc3500=216FSB=433DDR rate
I have had Prime95 fail usually because of temperatures and sometimes because of drivers , but mostly because of overclocking just a little too much or having memory timing numbers too low (quicker). Or because I was pushing the cpu too much. I've been running my memory at 2.9v for about......oh , going into three months now. Let us know how you make out with your changes and if it points to a power supply unit run a poll here . Here is a link to a psu FAQ page telling not what make to buy , but what to look for and why.
http://www.ocworkbench.com/2002/ecs/...de/psuFAQ1.htm
bob
ps If you want a quick and easy way to determine if your temperatures are the culprit just remove the side cover of your case and point a summertime box fan ,set on high ,towards the motherboard and run that Prime95 program.
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Old 2nd March, 2003, 06:34 AM
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your cpu should run at 1400mhz out of the box. unless it is properly unlocked you may be asking to much from it. Source a 13 micron part to at least eleminate the cpu as the cause.??? prime95 gives errors for me too only when i push the cpu to 11x200. i had one of those 1600+'s once and it never did 166fsb when locked.

this little story may give you insight
Spot the weakest link in this OCing conundrum

an unlocked thundebird athlon may make you happier than your xp-i certainly was.
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Old 2nd March, 2003, 06:38 AM
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~crucibelle~ , You do mention your stats , I didn't read your sig.
bob
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Old 2nd March, 2003, 06:55 AM
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Timbob - Thanks for replying! My cpu is an XP 1600+ palomino, AROIA core. The default multiplier is 10.5 and default fsb is 133 (it's locked). My memory is Crucial PC2700 (one 256mb stick). I haven't even tried Dual Channel yet - oh boy, that would probably be even more problems I have it placed in the DIMM slot closest to the CPU. I will check out that link you posted - i think I MAY Have read that before though - but I'll double check. I have considered that the temps might be the problem, but I've noticed people running at higher temps than me and not having the same problem. However, I'm going to try what you said (taking side panel off and let box fan blow on mobo) to rule that out. Thanks for the help!!

flytek - Thank you for replying, as well! my cpu runs at the default speed just fine, but when I try to raise it to 10.5 X 166 along with running the ram at 166, I get the Prime95 problem. My CPU is locked. I've suspected the CPU as the prob at times too. Really, I'm just not sure what it is. I was hoping to narrow it down a bit, but I realize that might be an impossibility. I don't have anyone that I can borrow a tbred off of, but I was think of purchasing one of those 1700+ tbreds from newegg, anyhow. I mean, even if the CPU turns out not to be the problem, it would still be a good buy, right?

anyone else with ideas, please post. I want to try as many things as possible before i started replacing stuff. Thanks!!

-jeanna
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Last edited by ~crucibelle~; 2nd March, 2003 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 2nd March, 2003, 09:37 AM
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as long as it's 13 micron it should fly
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Old 2nd March, 2003, 04:06 PM
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Hi ~crucibelle~,
What HSF are you using? Heat could cause your issues.
If you are running cool, extra voltage may help. AROIA's seem to do better with more juice... Everything seems to point to the CPU in one shape or form as holding you back.

Since you have locked AGP and PCI... I suggest trying at 160mhz - 165 mhz running in synch to see if you can get the errors to go away. I think once you find the sweet spot, a little extra voltage may get you the last few mhz you need to hit 166.

BTW: 1700+ tbred would be an excellent idea. I have 2 already and 2 more in transit. The A's top out about 1900mhz or so, and the B's can do 2ghz easy. For about $50, you can't go wrong.... and their factory unlocked.

Good Luck.
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Old 3rd March, 2003, 01:09 AM
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i think the problem is in your cpu. your palomino 1600+ cannot handle 10.5x166 speeds...
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Old 3rd March, 2003, 04:30 AM
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Please look in BIOS and give us all the settings
you have as far as FSB and RAM etc. K?

Don't be afraid to give that Crucial 2.88 Vdimm.

Have a feeling that Palley is choking things. With
the side cover off for cooling give it 1.850 Vcore
and see if it will POST at 166 FSB.

Hang in there.




Pops.
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Old 3rd March, 2003, 08:05 AM
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lets see: $50 for a chip rated 66mhz higher than your last.
to most that would be a joke but here we'll try a small experiment

that new cpu will most likey do over 2.1ghz without even pushing. a chip like that at retail will be much more than $50
it will also allow for synchronised memory @ 166mhz giving your memory more room to fly.
your board will go faster than ever before, maybe faster than any normal rig of any sort for any price. (priceless?)

so that means a half price chip, a happy board, faster memory and and freedom.

it's starting to sound like the chip is free
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Old 3rd March, 2003, 08:21 PM
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Im also thinking your processor cant handle high fsb speeds. If your confident your PSU is ok. Im a bit worried when u mentioned that your rail drops to 4.6 sometimes.

Unstable rails are a cause of instability, but my hunch feeling is that it is the CPU. You aint in a position where you could try to a different processor.

Oh and the xp1700 'b' are an excellent buy, just like flytek was saying they are well worth the money. Mine @ default voltages does 2050mhz prime95 stable with my delta 80mm fan @ only 2400 RPM! The chip I have tops out at 2440mhz. (it burnt in now prob go higher havnt had the time). So even if it isnt your CPU u aint losing out

Hope you find da solution
L8rs
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Old 3rd March, 2003, 08:36 PM
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All I want is to get higher than 166. It will post there but only at 1.9v with the cpu temp running at 45C in the bios with no load. It will boot into the os at this speed, but I have no cpu stress test for the RedHat 8 os I'm currently running. At 170fsb I get the c1 or c3 error. 175, same thing.

My 8rda is stock, and I noticed my smart fan(original) doesn't get any higher than 3400rpm and stays there. Is cooling my problem? Or is this a poorly clocking 1800 tbred?

A friend tried the memory out in his Asus a7n8x deluxe and got up to 200fsb easily (stock board there too.)

Here are my bios settings.
default cpu multiplier.
166 fsb
Memory timings at 7,3,2,2.

I admit this is my first MB overclock, and the system is a work in progress. Any suggestions?
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Old 3rd March, 2003, 08:37 PM
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Here is a data point ...

I just changed a 2100+ AIUGA Palomino out of my system in favor of a 2100+ AIUHB 0304 TBRED. The Palomino would not overclock to save it's life. I could get it to about 144 stable with Crucial PC2700. The TBRED has so far been up to 175FSB x 13 at 1.65V! Wow, what a chip!

So, I am going to suggest that the CPU is your most likely culprit. Your mobo and DDR should theoretically o/c better than the KT333CE 8K5a3+ I am running. You should be able to easily get an XP2100+ B TBRED over 175, maybe closer to 185 at stock multiplier.
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Old 3rd March, 2003, 09:38 PM
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Paco,
Don't be shy... start a new thread. In it give us more details, and I'm sure we can help. What are you trying to do? go for max FSB or more CPU mhz?
Is your Tbred an A or B?

If you want the most FSB you can get, lower your multiplier a notch. Sounds like you have maxed out the CPU.
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Old 3rd March, 2003, 11:47 PM
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Thanks SteveI:

I'll try to break out of my shell next time. Sorry, if I broke protocol on your thread crucibelle.

I think my stepping is B since I have the AXD prefix. I'm shooting for the magic 200fsb first, but I'd wouldn't mind seeing the proc break 2ghz.

I forgot about resetting the multiplier, I'll give it a shot. A search turned up somebody running an 1800+ at 200 x 10. If I don't make some progress I'll start a new thread.
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Old 4th March, 2003, 12:23 AM
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Hi jeanna,

>>I have noticed when I run Prime95 at 166/166 that my 5V rail drops to 4.6. However, I've also heard that the voltages are not reported correctly via USDM and other similar programs.

I would fix this first before anything else. It may be true that the software voltage readings are not exact measurments, but we are still talking about a large relative drop here. The 5v line dropping to 4.6v is no good. When I was in school (way back when), one of my instructors actually designed switching supplies as his day job and taught classes at night. I still remember his warnings that if your power supply drops below 4.85v on the 5v line, it's broken. Your supply is dropping another .25 volts below that!

I run a Sparkle 400W that has worked very well with every board I've had on it (about 5). Antec supplies are good and TTGI supplies also get rave reviews. Get at least a 400 watter.

After you upgrade your PS, it would be a good idea to run a little higher volts on your CPU. Try 1.85v on the CPU and it won't hurt your ram to run 2.9v.

Good luck!
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Old 4th March, 2003, 12:47 AM
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Hello everyone. Wow, thanks for all the help, guys!! I really appreciate it! Here's what I've done - I backed down to 140 fsb sync as a starting point. Now here is where it gets odd. Remember that at 166 fsb sync, everything is stable except prime95. Well, at 140 fsb, prime will run till the cows come home, but I'm experiencing instabilities in the form of: outlook express freezes randomly - ctrl-alt-delete, then open OE back up and it works. Also, my network internet connection keeps dropping. I'm on dial-up, so I have a homePNA network card. Never had a problem with it before. When this happens, I can still browse the network, but cannot do anything internet related (sites, email,etc).

These are the settings I had for 140 fsb:

cpu interface: agressive (also tried optimal)
ram frequency: 100%
7
3
3
2.5
-------
I also tried raising the pci latency timer to 64.

I've plugged my cpu fan into the psu instead of the board, but I haven't noticed any differences.

Did find this out though - I can set cpu to 1.85v and ram to 2.9v, ram timings 6-2-2-2.0 and prime95 will complete about 10 tests, then die. My temperature gets too hot for my liking here, as well - 46C. I haven't checked stability at that point though, although 166 fsb with lower voltage was stable in all things except prime (crashed on first test).

I think it's safe to say I need a new heatsink. It's a crappy all aluminum one - I got it before I read reviews, which was dumb, I know. I cant remember the name of the site, but it's the one that has extensive reviews of hsf's - and they gave a model similar to mine only 7 out of 10. It said on the box that it was rated to XP2600+. 2600+, my foot!!! What a joke!

I saw an SLK700 with Ys tech fan for a good price, so I think I'm gonna go with that one

I didn't test by taking the side cover off yet, I can't seem to locate my fan at the moment. But, I think heat is certainly an issue, so I'm gonna take care of that anyhow. Also, I think the cpu is a problem as well, from you all have said. I may be getting a tbred soon. Right now I'm just going to keep everything set to default, till I get better cooling and a new processor.

One more thing: I just noticed that my video card drivers are WAY out of date. I can't believe I overlooked this before. I just used the ones that came on the CD. I have a Radeon 7000 and there have been several revisions of the drivers since mine. So, I'm guessing I should probably update these, right?

Thanks to everyone for your help!!!

paco - no need to apoligize, no problem w/me Hope you get everything sorted, as well! Good luck!

-jeanna
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Old 4th March, 2003, 01:07 AM
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My 8RDA is due any second now.

I was only able to get 10.5x166 on the 1600+ for a short period of time before crashing. I could get 10.5x146 with great stability and everything working. My feeling was that when the processor got above 40c, it was no longer able to handle 166. Granted, I've been working with the 8KTA3+Pro and PC133 memory, but still I think it is a cooling problem with the CPU in your case.

As you can see by my sig, I have been upgrading for better overclocking control.
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Old 4th March, 2003, 01:57 AM
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Photon - sorry, I didn't see your reply before I posted. I think I must have looked at USDM wrong the first time, because this time when I ran at 166/166, the 5V rail only went down to 4.83. I guess that's still not very good though.

bigblue - I hope you enjoy your new 8RDA! I'm still new to all the OC stuff, so I'm sure you will be able to do a lot better with yours. I think I've got a problem with heat, as well. I have a 2 92mm fans - one in the side panel (intake) and one in the top panel (exhaust). I've noticed my system temp stays really low, but the cpu temp is relatively high. Got to get a new heatsink, definitely.

Photon & bigblue - thanks for replying and for the help, guys!!

-jeanna
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Old 4th March, 2003, 04:01 AM
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Well jeanna it's probably 1 ( or more) of 3 things IMO...
PSU- Is it up to the challenge of taking on the increased load from OC ?
CPU - Is there headroom in where you are trying to go( max speed ,166fsb is like 340+mhz oc.. I didn't think pallies OC'd that consistent some may, but what are the chances?), and is locked.

Cpu cooling....46c is what in reality 56c ? Don't alot of folks have stability issues starting around there ( I said ALOT as in SOME- NOT ALL!!!)?

Could be one thing, or could be a combo.
Obviously cranking up the vcore to reach higher speeds helps in that dept. and hurts in temps....... vicous cycle my friend.

Good Luck j ...

muzz
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