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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27th March, 2003, 03:17 PM
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power supplies

I need a good 1, one that will not drop below 4.64 like my current ps..
any recommendations guys???
What are you guys using that run over 200FSB SYNC?
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Old 27th March, 2003, 03:20 PM
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like this
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Old 27th March, 2003, 04:12 PM
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I use a cheap £25 550w PSU by Q-Tec. I can overclock over 200FSB and my pc is very stable & get great results in 3dmark & Sisoft http://service.futuremark.com/servle...jectId=6220709 If you want the best then go for an Antec or Enermax but those will cost you http://www.chillblast.com/index.asp
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Old 27th March, 2003, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mixx666
I use a cheap £25 550w PSU by Q-Tec. I can overclock over 200FSB and my pc is very stable & get great results in 3dmark & Sisoft http://service.futuremark.com/servle.../projectsearch
If you want the best then go for an Antec or Enermax but those will cost you http://www.chillblast.com/index.asp
I have no problem running 200SYNC stable, but any higher than 203 my 5V drops bad, and get reboots..
So i'm thinking PS problem??
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Old 27th March, 2003, 04:27 PM
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What is your Vdimm voltage? Alot of people have problems with higher FSB speeds on a few of these boards.
If you can try some different ram some people have problems with OCZ. Since you already have a good supply i dont think the PSU is your problem
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Old 27th March, 2003, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mixx666
What is your Vdimm voltage? Alot of people have problems with higher FSB speeds on a few of these boards.
If you can try some different ram some people have problems with OCZ.
Vdimm is 2.90
I don't think it's the ram, when i have this chip cranked up to 2486MHz my VDD drops to 1.55 from 1.57, and 5V drops bigtime
I get 3200 in Sandra mem bench witn this ram..
This ram is the new version..
It was reprogrammed to work proerly with Nforce2 boards..
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 27th March, 2003, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mixx666
I use a cheap £25 550w PSU by Q-Tec. I can overclock over 200FSB and my pc is very stable & get great results in 3dmark & Sisoft http://service.futuremark.com/servle...jectId=6220709 If you want the best then go for an Antec or Enermax but those will cost you http://www.chillblast.com/index.asp
No offence but you have a 250watt PSU there with a 550 watt sticker on there.

In fact we have 250 watt PSU that are better then the Q-Tech 550.

Some enermax are ok, but be very carefull that you buy a modern one.

Youget what you pay for with PSU, Sparkle are very good (what I use) the newer antec truepowers are ok, as are TTGI supplies.
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Old 27th March, 2003, 04:48 PM
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How about your Vdd voltage mine is @1.58. When I do the math on your setup I can see that you’re probably using no more than 300watts, how many fans have you got? Do you use any case lights? These would drain a lot of power. What I used to do when I had a 300watt PSU was take out all the thing I didn’t use while benching like the soundcard or modem just leave the basics in and try changing your voltage.

Sorry just seen your pics. Very nice

Ok try turning the lights off and put your Vdimm up, if you just have the basics in then see if volts drops. For a setup like yours you may need more power.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 27th March, 2003, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Holst


No offence but you have a 250watt PSU there with a 550 watt sticker on there.

In fact we have 250 watt PSU that are better then the Q-Tech 550.

Some enermax are ok, but be very carefull that you buy a modern one.

Youget what you pay for with PSU, Sparkle are very good (what I use) the newer antec truepowers are ok, as are TTGI supplies.


Its ok Holst I checked it out its got the Watts behind it, trust me if you saw the amount of things I run on my pc you would know a 250w supply would die of a heart attack.
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Old 27th March, 2003, 04:59 PM
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look at this crap, noticed alot of fluxuations just surfing the net, and VDD does drop to 1.55 sometimes..
Vdimm is at 2.90
Vcore is at 1.80
Oh, thanks Mixx666, all my pics are not updated yet, that's my old 8KHA+ mb and GF3 and my case is now painted, no more Volcano 7, Vantec VA4 on there now
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Old 27th March, 2003, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Its ok Holst I checked it out its got the Watts behind it, trust me if you saw the amount of things I run on my pc you would know a 250w supply would die of a heart attack.
I wouldn't agree on that one, most of us doesn't run a computer that would take more than 250W.

You should always check what W the PSU gives out with the +5 and +12V rails combined, that's the only important thing, as well as what amps you get out of the respective rails.

It doesn't matter if you would have a 1000W PSU if those rails would have a low combined W, power fluctuations and power distortion.

Even if the voltage doesn't go down you can have voltage distortion and fluctuation that could lead to crashes. That's why some good 300W works better than a cheap 550W. Hence, why Holst said what he said

Always spend some extra money on the PSU.

To make a parallel, try comparing this to speakers. Some crappy speakers claim to have a W of, say .. , 600W. Now, this is the PMPO wattage which means it's the peak output. While the RMS watt could be something like 10. While you could have other (brand speakers) that have a PMPO of 300W but a RMS of 30W. Hence, the average output of the 300W speakers are higher, not just a peak output that they measured once and decided, this is so and so high.

Now, the same goes for PSUs. Many of the cheaper PSUs you will not ever get up to the specified wattage because it's just a peak output. Also, many has voltage distortion and fluctuations which leads to crashes.

Personally, I'd rather get a high quality 300W psu rather than a crappy 550W.
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Old 27th March, 2003, 07:02 PM
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Put some cooling on the SB.

I have the Antec True Control True Power 550 watt series and it works nice! It has adjustable 5v, 12v, and 3.3v on a front bay panel. I was able to raise my 5v rail to 5.15v. It's been running sweet since. I got it at Newegg for $125, not too bad... :beer:

Edit: Just realized that those pics were outdated like you mentioned. But still, cool the SB if you're not doing so already
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Old 27th March, 2003, 07:07 PM
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ok I have been hunting down the perfect psu as my 5v rail dropped real low with this 8RDA+(upgraded from an 8k3a where my rails were perfect) and an Antec Smart Power 350watt / 4.84-12.04. I bought a Robanton 600 watt psu and a Sparkle 350 watt PSU. The Robanton is giving the best results. As per a multi meter on the ATX connector, my rails are 5.07-12.05, and 3.35 . They do not move under load except for the 12v which goes to 12.07 . All my voltages are rock solid. Nothing moves even when running prime or FAH or other stuff. The sparkle on the other hand was easily tweakable to give nice rails(stock was 4.99-11.86-3.3) to 5.17-12.27, and I forget the 3.3 but the fluctions were constant. These are great psu's but not in my system. Even at idle the 12v went from 11.98 to11.92 back to 12.27 , My vc and vdimm also bounced around a lot, so out it went and the Robanton came back. So far it is working flawlessly and I picked it up on eBay for $45. Now I usually say with a PSU you get what you play for, but this thing is working great.

I know this was a bit long but I feel your pain. I agree with Holst on his recomendations but also wanted to give my experience.
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Old 27th March, 2003, 08:00 PM
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First: MBM-5 is notoriously inaccurate. Second there's a VERY important distinction between Wattage, and amperage. The most important measurement to look for on any given PSU is the Amperes behind each DC rail. Mix666 made the statement "....it's got the Watt's behind it..." This (no offense Mixx666) is a misnomer. It's the amperes which are actually "behind" the voltage, and amperes are the critical measurement. Wattage is a term almost synonomous to Heat. For example, my Antec TruPwr 480W has 22A - 12V, 38A - 5V, 30A - 3.3V. Now take a PCPower&Cooling 510Watt PSU (considered to be the best made) they use a 38A - 12V rail amazing. But no where in those specific measurements do you find any mention of Wattage, why because it's an overall measurment pertaining to performnace and relating to temperature. Amperes drive each DC rail, and that is why certain rails (i.e. 5V) have more amperes behind them then the others. You see what's in that PSU is what your system needs to "feed" off. If the transformers are factory wound, and of poor quality, or the capicitors, or wiring is sub-par your CPU, and all your devices will suffer. Were dealing with MICRO-electronics here, which indicate they are sensitive to micro-voltages, and fluxuations in those voltages. The PSU is the most overlooked, system component, to everyone's disadvantage. There can be 600Watt PSU's that aren't nearly as reliable NOR powerful as 300Watt PCPower&Cooling, Antec, TTGI, Sam Cheer, etc.

Anyway here's some excellently priced PSU's. The first is perhaps the best PSU for price VS performance, and adustability on the market to date! TTGI 520Watt, Tri-fan PSU, $99 at Directron (comes in four colors, and has adjustable pots!); http://www.directron.com/tt520ss4fanb.html there's also the 450W, $89; http://www.directron.com/tt520ssal.html Then there's the SamCheer PSU's considered perhaps the second best PSU money can buy; http://www.samcheer.com/html/product...x470triple.htm And finnally if Cost is no object PCPower&Cooling IS the best no argument from anyone I gaurantee; http://www.pcpowercooling.com/pdf/insidestory.pdf I use Antec TruPwr 480Watt, and my last was Antec 400Watt, I have no current problems. And if you were to measure your PSU with a digital voltmeter, the numbers would be quite different, I assure you. Try downloading CPUCool and compare the two software Voltage, temp monitoring software,s. Here's the link to CPUCool; http://www.podien.onlinehome.de/CPUCOOL.HTM scroll down a bit to download it once you get there, but read through first. It explains the features, and CPUCool also allows FSB overclocking from within Windows (the only program on the market to do this, which is still supported) and it also has a cooling device which can drop CPU temps by 10C! I've used it on and off for a year, and it does work!!!

By the by, why is your VDIMM at 2.9V? Are you overclocking your memory?
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Old 27th March, 2003, 08:38 PM
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I'd stay away from Enermax and Sparkle with the Epox nForce2 boards, i've had a ton of people email in telling me that their boards won't boot with these. I can go through my mail archives and dig up model #'s too if anyone is that interested.

I'd reccomend the following short list of power supplies: (descending in price)

PC power and cooling
Antec
Channel Well
Turbolink

(strangely enough, the last 3 are all made by the same people)
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Old 27th March, 2003, 09:30 PM
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Re: power supplies

Quote:
Originally posted by jamie hayman
I need a good 1, one that will not drop below 4.64 like my current ps..
any recommendations guys???
What are you guys using that run over 200FSB SYNC?
First of all you need a VDD mod and after you finish that if it doesn`t work change the PSU.You can have 550W PSU if you want but without vdd mod can`t hit more than 205 and that is if your lucky.
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Old 28th March, 2003, 03:32 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by sirtoby
[B]

I wouldn't agree on that one, most of us doesn't run a computer that would take more than 250W.

You should always check what W the PSU gives out with the +5 and +12V rails combined, that's the only important thing, as well as what amps you get out of the respective rails.

It doesn't matter if you would have a 1000W PSU if those rails would have a low combined W, power fluctuations and power distortion.




Guys trust me this is a newer version of the Q-tec 550 PSU
do the math, here is what i run on my PC
1.CPU clocked@2400Mhz
2.Radeon 9700pro overclocked right up to the point of artifacts
3.Sound card
4.Lan card
5.Delta Fan on CPU Heatsink@8000RPM
6.2 6000RPM Case Fans
7.265x2 Corsair ram overclocked up to 220
8.2 Fan Regulater speed switchers
9.2 Neon light case fans
10.1 Cold Cathode - Blue light
11.80gig hard drive


12.Moded north bridge with fan
13.2 cd roms

All that and very stable voltage settings. When I do the math im using over 250w and I get a very stable PC
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Old 28th March, 2003, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liquid3D
First: MBM-5 is notoriously inaccurate. Second there's a VERY important distinction between Wattage, and amperage. The most important measurement to look for on any given PSU is the Amperes behind each DC rail. Mix666 made the statement "....it's got the Watt's behind it..." This (no offense Mixx666) is a misnomer. It's the amperes which are actually "behind" the voltage, and amperes are the critical measurement. Wattage is a term almost synonomous to Heat.
Whoa!! STOP RIGHT THERE!
Please consider the following very carefully, as you seem to be a little confused between watts, amps and voltage.

For a DC circuit, Watts are voltage times current. This is a basic law of physics, and a standard part of our universe.

So, saying "It's the amperes which are actually "behind" the voltage" is the same thing as saying "watts", as voltage multiplied by current IS watts. The link really IS that simple, and that closely tied.

Watts are a measure of energy - be that heat, electrical, mechanical or chemical.

----

If I have a power source that can provide exactly 40A at 12V, it can provide exactly 480W (12*40) worth of energy. It's really that simple. If I have a PSU that can provide 200W at 5V, then it can provide 40A at 5V (200/5). You see, I (current) V(voltage) and P(power - watts) are intertwined. Simple as that.

Now, in terms of choosing a PSU, you MUST do some leg work. Find out how much power you require on the various voltage rails. There's no point buying a PSU that can provide 40A on the 12V (480W) line if you only need 60W (5A) worth of power from the 12V line.

There are issues that need to be understood about PSU design. PSUs generally have a *single* voltage regulator internally. Now, this might seem counterintuitive, but it's true - take your PSU apart and see how many switching controller chips you can find inside.

The PSU regulates by averaging the voltage across the 3.3V, 5V and 12V lines (The -5V and -12V lines are generally regulated in a completely different manner due to their low power outputs). This averaging is weighted in favour of the 5V line. This "average" signal is then compared to a voltage reference generated inside the switching controller to generate an "error" signal. This error signal represents how far away the average is from where it should be. If the error signal is too high, the PSU transfers less power from the input to the output. If the error signal is too low, the PSU transfers more power.

Now, if this error signal is very close to where it should be, the PSU doesn't do anything. This is called hysteresis, and prevents the output voltage from "hunting" up and down as the load on the PSU changes.

The biggest problem with this method of regulating is that it's averaging across all the voltage lines. If 12V line is too high, but the 5V line is too low, the average error can end up being zero! This is *MORE* likely to happen if your PSU has a high draw on one line, and a relatively low draw on another.

Imagine a PSU that can push out 240W on the 12V line (20A) and 250W on the 5v line (50A). It's been asked to provide 72W on the 12V line (6A) and 150W on the 5V(30A) line. The high loading on the 5V line will tend to push the 12v line upwards, as there's only one regulator in the PSU.

----

Another factor to remember is where that primary current draw will be from. My current (300W) PSU is having difficulties with heat issues (mostly due to a low speed/low noise fan). The majority of this heat is being generated by the rectifiers on the 5V line. (Speced at 150W). If I upgraded my PSU to a PCPower&Cooling PSU that provided 325W, I would be no better off. Why? The PCPower&Cooling PSU can still only provide 150W on the 5V line. Those extra 25W (about all I need!) are going into the 3.3V and 12V lines, instead of the 5V line.

Áedán
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Old 28th March, 2003, 05:51 PM
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Let’s look at it this way. Go get yourselves a standard 300w PSU has anybody tried to push there PC with one in? I know for a fact if you have a setup like mine you would not be able to push the FSB up as much or your GFX card unless your really lucky. Has anybody tried it? Once you start overclocking using a standard PSU stability will be the main issue as Aedan points out when he talks about the voltage rails and boy would they go up and down like a roller coaster.
Now what I’m stating is I spent a little amount of cash after I did a heck of a lot of research, here is one http://www.bit-tech.net/review/123/. I take buying my stuff very seriously so whereas the odd one out:-

Corsair XMS 3200Ram
Radeon Hercules 9700pro
Q-tec PSU
Western Digital 80GB Caviar 8mb cache

I would have said the Q-tec about 2 months ago but after doing some research I found that it’s actually very good. I was chatting to my friend Dressuk as I was writing this and we both ran prime 95, his brand new Enermax costing twice as much as my supply dropped its +5.00v from 4.92 idle to 4.82 to 4.87 while testing. Mine from 4.92 idle to 4.82 to 4.92 while testing. Both our +12.00v stayed rock solid.

So my point is does anybody think I should go spend more money on a better supply?
I don’t think I should. This supply is bang on for my setup I don’t need any less or anymore. So Jamie if you think that it’s your supply that’s causing you a problem than try the Q-tec. If anybody thinks differently than say so but back up your argument don’t just say “cos mine is a good make and costs $99” that simply isn’t good enough. Look on the web see what other people say then go and buy.

Good luck

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Old 28th March, 2003, 06:09 PM
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Join Date: December 2002
Location: NJ USA
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Quote:
Originally posted by k1114
I'd stay away from Enermax and Sparkle with the Epox nForce2 boards, i've had a ton of people email in telling me that their boards won't boot with these. I can go through my mail archives and dig up model #'s too if anyone is that interested.
That's interesting about the Sparkle because when I tried this 350 watt out part # FSP350-60BN, I kept getting an error code "6d" and the setup screen would freeze. I could not get into bios nor load windows. Finally holding the insert key down(which took a few tries)finally got me into the bios where I just saved and exited and it would boot from there on out. That was the only cold boot I tried as I tested it for a while and didn't like how much the rails jumped up and down. I mean they jumped a lot, and this was also after I tried to tweak the pot.

BTW I know many are not used to Robanton, but I have heard nothing but great stuff from this PSU and I am liking it so far. Out of 3 PSU's it is the only one to give rails above spec, and hold them rock solid with the 12v only raising .2 under load while the others rails are locked. It's amps are:
+3.3 - 40a
+5 - 60a
+12v - 25a
http://www.lostcircuits.com/advice/robanton/

then again if you have the money the TTGI or PC power and cooling is usually the obvious choice. I still may pick a TTGI up once my tax refund gets here, but the Robanton is doing excellant in the meantime.
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