Mystery of the On/Off Button

[patrizio]

Greetings,

I can turn my computer on only if I hold the power on/off button in for the count of 2. If I simply push it in (as I did with any other computers I've had in the past), the computer turns on (fans run, etc.) but it does not boot up. (Of course, if I hold it in for the count of 4, it turns itself off.)

At first I thought the processor, or the motherboard or SOMETHING was messed up.... but everything seems to be working perfectly. It boots up perfectly every time... as long as I keep the on/off button in for 2 seconds.

Is this some new power on/booting delay procedure?

All my front panel connectors are connected with the lettering facing inward. I've read in one place that they should be facing outward (toward the case) and in one place inward (toward the processor) ( I plugged the power on/off connector both ways with the same result.)

Is there anybody else out there with an Antec KS-282 and an Epox 8rda+? How did you plug in the connectors?

Thanks!

Pat

____________________
epox 8rda+,
CPU AMD|1800+
VGA TRANSCEND|RADEON 9100 64M
Antec KS-282 300w

[flytek]

on the end of the wires is a black piece with the lettering on. carefull examination will reveal a relief arrow for one of the wires. i take this as indicating the + wire and match it up to the pins according to the manual. most switches don't matter which way but LED's do.

[patrizio]

Originally Posted by flytek

on the end of the wires is a black piece with the lettering on. carefull examination will reveal a relief arrow for one of the wires. i take this as indicating the + wire and match it up to the pins according to the manual. most switches don't matter which way but LED's do.

Thanks for the reply. I came to the opposite conclusion based on these two sources:

(1 From the Antec site) "Q: How do I install the wires such as the LEDs from the front panels?
There is an arrow on the black connector from the wires. The arrow or a small triangle indicates that the wires is ground."

(2 form the Epox manual): The power led GND (item 5) is shown as " - " negative (page3-12)

Thus, I concluded that the triangle is an indication of the negative (GND) wire. If that is correct, the lettering should face inward... I guess.

That's my conclusion... but I been wrong many time before!

Thanks again,

Pat

[flytek]

if your lights work using your system and mine work using my system then it obviously makes no difference.

[timbob2469]

patrizio, this sounds like an underpowered psu, The motherboard and videocard and memory are demanding more power than there is available. If you are using 2 sticks of memory you could remove 1 of them for testing purposes (less current draw), I've even underclocked(shudder) a cpu to pinpoint this problem.
Bob

[patrizio]

Originally Posted by timbob2469

patrizio, this sounds like an underpowered psu, The motherboard and videocard and memory are demanding more power than there is available. If you are using 2 sticks of memory you could remove 1 of them for testing purposes (less current draw), I've even underclocked(shudder) a cpu to pinpoint this problem.
Bob

I'll try underclocking my cpu from 1916 to 1800... I thought increasing the rate o 1916 wouldn't make a difference... but I'll give it a try. If that doesn't work, I'll try removing a memory stick.

Thanks!

epox 8rda+,
CPU AMD|1800+
VGA TRANSCEND|RADEON 9100 64M
Antec KS-282 300w

[zorbo]

Originally Posted by timbob2469

patrizio, this sounds like an underpowered psu, The motherboard and videocard and memory are demanding more power than there is available. If you are using 2 sticks of memory you could remove 1 of them for testing purposes (less current draw), I've even underclocked(shudder) a cpu to pinpoint this problem.
Bob

Really? I have the same problem, and there is a good chance that my PS is underpowered as well. Maybe I'll have to look at getting a new one. Thanks for the heads up

[Pita^Norf]

Have you tried using the "Hot key" option to boot up to see if if yields the same problem ?

Needs to be selected in the BIOS and a has to be PS2 keyboard.

[patrizio]

Originally Posted by patrizio

I'll try underclocking my cpu from 1916 to 1800... I thought increasing the rate o 1916 wouldn't make a difference... but I'll give it a try. If that doesn't work, I'll try removing a memory stick.


epox 8rda+,
CPU AMD|1800+
Crucial DDR PC2700 512MB X 2
VGA TRANSCEND|RADEON 9100 64M
Antec KS-282 300w

_________

I have tried everything with no success:
I have changed the FSB Frequency from 166mhz to 133mhz --By the way, I have done nothing to overclock my computer.
I have remove one stick on memory (I now have only one stick of Crucial DDR PC2700 512MB X 2)
I have tried putting the front panel led text facing the case and facing the CPU (they seem to work the same as far as the boot up process is concerned. "Flytek" I think you are correct. I think that
the text facing the case is the correct direction since a 4 in 1 USB connection light would always stay on before; now it goes off when I turn the computer off.)

I have tried the hot key --it powers up but does not boot up.

Through trial and error, I found out a way that I can make it work every time:

(a) change the bios to POWERON AFTER PRIOR-FAIL (set to ON)
(b) unplug the computer from the outlet
(c) press the on/off power button
(d) plug the computer back in

If I follow the above procedure it boots up every time!

HELP! HELP! HELP!

[vmsguy]

With my old PSU, I would have to unplug it to get it to boot.

Fried that one

New PSU (350watt Herolchi) powers up every time.

[timbob2469]

patrizio,
Do you have APIC enabled? MPS=1.4? ACPI=enabled? What setting for ACPI Suspend Type? if S3 that is the Suspend to ram, if you have it set to S3 you might want to see what reading you are getting for you 5vsb (Stand By voltage) or more importantly what the rating on the psu itself is for 5vsb , should be >=1A. (page 1-6 in the manual). You could try setting suspend type to S1. If you look in the manual page 3-14 , second sentence might be a clue,"The power source to the DDR SDRAM must be kept active during STR(ACPI S3)." Since you are unplugging your psu you are no longer booting up using this function. So maybe when you try to boot up in the usual way (the power button) there is not enough Stand by voltage, and by holding the button in longer it either loads up the DDR or resets the power scheme in some way. For what it is worth, I had to learn the hard way that I needed a better psu to run my 8RDA+ with a gf4-mx440 and 2 X 256 MB of ram. It wasn't until I bought a psu rated 420 Watts that things got rock solid stable. If I had to do it over I would have followed the advice here in December 2002 and bought a Sparkle or an Antec psu.
ps. I have a 550 watt Powmax psu with a really cool light up fan in it, problem is I can't get over 195 FSB with it, as soon as I swapped in a 420 Watt Enlight psu I can get to 210 FSB making NO other changes. If you are going to get a new one I'd recommend an Antec True-Control 550 Watt.
Bob

[patrizio]

Originally Posted by timbob2469

patrizio,
Do you have APIC enabled? MPS=1.4? ACPI=enabled? What setting for ACPI Suspend Type? if S3 that is the Suspend to ram, if you have it set to S3 you might want to see what reading you are getting for you 5vsb (Stand By voltage) or more importantly what the rating on the psu itself is for 5vsb , should be >=1A. (page 1-6 in the manual). You could try setting suspend type to S1. If you look in the manual page 3-14 , second sentence might be a clue,"The power source to the DDR SDRAM must be kept active during STR(ACPI S3)." Since you are unplugging your psu you are no longer booting up using this function. So maybe when you try to boot up in the usual way (the power button) there is not enough Stand by voltage, and by holding the button in longer it either loads up the DDR or resets the power scheme in some way. For what it is worth, I had to learn the hard way that I needed a better psu to run my 8RDA+ with a gf4-mx440 and 2 X 256 MB of ram. It wasn't until I bought a psu rated 420 Watts that things got rock solid stable. If I had to do it over I would have followed the advice here in December 2002 and bought a Sparkle or an Antec psu.
ps. I have a 550 watt Powmax psu with a really cool light up fan in it, problem is I can't get over 195 FSB with it, as soon as I swapped in a 420 Watt Enlight psu I can get to 210 FSB making NO other changes. If you are going to get a new one I'd recommend an Antec True-Control 550 Watt.
Bob

Thanks for the information. I have no idea if I have the APIC enabled (The settings are the "opimized settings.")since I'm away from my computer/home right now but will give you and informed reply once I get back home.

I would hope that it's not the power source --my Antec KS-282case & psu (300W) are new -- but once I check everything else out and if it still doesn't boot properly, I'll get one. Hmmm, I may just order a True-Control 550 Watt power source from NewEgg once I get home.

Thanks! The detailed info. is most appreciated!

Have a wonderful day.

[Aedan]

I found that 300W on an 8RDA+ board running at 1.4GHz with GF4Ti4200, 3 SCSI HDD, ZIP and tape drive was not quite enough. It eventually suffered from catastrophic failure due to a part overheating. (actually it suffered twice, as I replaced the part - guess the heatsinks weren't really up to it) However, this was with reduced airflow through the PSU, so this shouldn't be such a surprise!

The 8RDA+ board pulls it's power from the 5V rail, so it's important that this particular rail be capable of handling heavy loads. I looked at a number of 500-550W PSUs, only to discover that most of them did not offer any increase on the 5V line over the 300W PSU! They all offered more power on the 12V line, which might be ok for an 8RGA or PIV based system, but not for an 8RDA board.

[timbob2469]

Áedán, Thanks for helping him out. That explanation about the 5volt rail would probably explain why that 550watt psu I mentioned can run another brand of NForce 2 motherboard I have so well. You see it has the IGP (Integrated Graphics Processor) and I am able to push it to 197 FSB and it is stable. I was able to get over 5,000 3DMark2001 score , thats why I swapped it in to my 8RDA+, I was dissapointed I could not get any further OC (in fact less) than the psu rated for 420Watts.
Bob

[newhit]

Originally Posted by timbob2469

Áedán, Thanks for helping him out. That explanation about the 5volt rail would probably explain why that 550watt psu I mentioned can run another brand of NForce 2 motherboard I have so well. You see it has the IGP (Integrated Graphics Processor) and I am able to push it to 197 FSB and it is stable. I was able to get over 5,000 3DMark2001 score , thats why I swapped it in to my 8RDA+, I was dissapointed I could not get any further OC (in fact less) than the psu rated for 420Watts.
Bob

It's a pity u didn't show a quick quote of the 5v rail specs of your solutions as i have an Antec 412fx which belts out 40A on the 5v rail but i also have this startup prob. I wonder if my combined power is being dragged down with 3,3v nd 12v loads

[Blooz1]

VERY interesting thread! I started reading this, saying to myself that I have never had this issue.

I had read where the 8RDA+ takes most of its power from the 5V line. My board has been run with 2 different power supplies, one a Sparkle FSP300-60PN, and the other is a Lite-On PS-5032-2V.

The Lite-On was originally built for Compaq servers, and was sold by Directron for $19! Although rated at 300 watts, the +5V line is 40A max, and the combined +3.3/+5V rating is 250W!

Now I see why I've never had power-related problems! The Lite-On was recommended by numerous people in Anandtech "Hot Deals", and is now sold out. If you ever happen to see one for sale, grab it! A great lil' PS that's quiet, too...NMB 80MM fan.

[newhit]

I think it's worth mentioning that PCW magazine (UK) did a write-up on mbds in the August issue and came across startup troubles with boards from different makers. They found that there was memory compatibility problems across a wide range of different memory relevent to whether the PC3200 sticks involved were to the latest Jedec standard or not, older sticks not being tightly controlled. Quote, "After some intensive analysis we pinpointed the memory as the problem". They used Crucial memory but found the trouble was hit and miss with whatever sticks they used. When Crucial shipped there latest Jedec standard 3200 (is it out yet??) they got no probs. It would show that my problems are leaning towards my older memory as against my Antec PSU with its 5v @ 40A. Not a definitive statement but food for thought.

[patrizio]

I’m back home. Thanks to all that replied.

Thanks Bob for the detailed instructions. To answer your questions:

---Do you have APIC enabled? MPS=1.4? ACPI=enabled?

YES

---What setting for ACPI Suspend Type?

S1 (pos)

---if S3 that is the Suspend to ram, if you have it set to S3 you might want to see what reading you are getting for you 5vsb (Stand By voltage)


I changed it to S3/saved and exited Windows. Turned computer on and still have the same problem. Where can I read the 5vsb stand by voltage? In PC Health Status it reads: +5v 4.91v; -5v –5.30v. I set ACPI back to default of S1.


--or more importantly what the rating on the psu itself is for 5vsb , should be >=1A

ON my power supply, I cannot find 5vsb but I do have +5sb --which I presume is the same-- and it shows 2A.

____________

Thanks Áedán. What power source did you end up getting? Does the Antec True-Control 550-Watt offer a sufficient increase on the 5V line? I just checked the price of Antec True-Control 550 and it’s $118.00… way beyond my current budget.

Are there any other power sources out there that have sufficient increase on the 5V line but are considerably cheaper? I have the power supply that came with my Antec KS-282.

_____________

Thanks, Newhit. I hope it's not the memory.... I'll check that out too.

____________

I'm starting to think that I'll have to leave it on all the time....

Have a wonderful day.

Pat