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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 2nd July, 2004, 11:57 PM
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Why does my Vcore go up big time when my system is on Load?

I just got a 3000+ G newcastle and an EP-8KDA3J. When i set my vcore to 1.65, it idles @ 1.65v but whe ni do load intensive stuff like sandra or Super Pi or something my vcore shoots to 1.7-1.75v

It shows this in the bios also, when i first boot up the stuff o nthe bottom the vcore is1.75v but i have it set to 1.65v, it seems to only jump when something that puts load on the cpu happens.

Should i Be worried ?
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Old 3rd July, 2004, 12:14 AM
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Do you have cool'n'quiet installed? That changes multipliers and voltages to save power when the CPU is idle.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 12:22 AM
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i have the same prob.
idle its ~1.714v load 1.840v to 1.856v
i only ned 1.75 to run the pc stabel but if i lower the vcore the pc crash when it idles.
I hope Epox vil come with a new bios to fix that.
my cpu is runing to hot at that vcore ( 57C/134F)
i dont use the box heatsink. lol
I dont have cool'n'quiet installed?
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 12:25 AM
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I have the same problem. Vcore fluctuates alot and doesn't act according to BIOS Vcore settings.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
Do you have cool'n'quiet installed? That changes multipliers and voltages to save power when the CPU is idle.

No idont, it does this i nthe bios 2, i have it set to 1.65 or 1.6v and i egt 1.75 or 1.7v for a load.

Because the bios puts the cpu on full load. This is scary i dont want my pu to fry because of this problem
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 02:44 AM
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Many people are reporting these problems. I don't have one of these boards yet, but here's what I'd do:

Find the lowest voltage setting that will let me run Prime95 for x hours, regardless of what that setting happens to be.

Using the high/low numbers from MBM, decide whether or not I'm comfortable with the maximum voltage.

Increase or decrease CPU speed, rinse, repeat.

If the problem is causing you to lose stability while idling, then that would be quite annoying. But also simple to fix - either decrease overclock, or run SETI, FAH, etc to keep CPU under load.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 04:02 AM
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Many of the earlier boards for AMD 64 (754 pin) only allowed for a 1.55 vcore.

Its all u need to achieve a decent oc anyways, as the ondie memory controller can't handle extreme vcore well. some guys have fried their AMD 64's with 1.7 vcore.

I've never had to apply more then a 1.55 vcore as I don't bother running high HTT & lower mem frequencies (with a divider in place, asynchronous) as it lowers performance.

I'd rather run 228-230 fsb at 1:1 with 1.55 vcore and not stress out the imbedded memory controller.
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Old 3rd July, 2004, 05:59 AM
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Its also the temps to, it makes my temps skyrocket which sucks..
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 09:35 AM
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... Please read through AMD's developer specifications for mainboard PWM implementation for Athlon 64 and corresponding VReg specifications to understand these fluctuations.
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Old 3rd July, 2004, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bertolli
Many of the earlier boards for AMD 64 (754 pin) only allowed for a 1.55 vcore.
The processor has a set of 'Voltage ID' pins (VID) that indicate the voltage that the processor is requesting. Unlike previous chips, the AMD64 CPUs have the ability to request different voltages in different operating states.

A 1.55v VCORE isn't over volting! In fact AMD's specifications state that the VCO requires an increase in voltage to 1.55v in order to remain stable through some ACPI state transitions. The processor itself changes the VID pins to enable this increase in voltage. During P state transitions, a stock processor will go through VCORE voltages of 1.45V, 1.475V, 1.5V, 1.525V and 1.55V. When the processor is idle, the processor's P state will leave the VID pins set to 1.45V.

The way that the bringing the VCORE voltage works is by adding an offset to reference voltage that the regulator uses. So, if you raise the voltage by 0.1V, then when the regulator thinks it's producing 1.5V, it's actually producing 1.6V. So, when you bring the voltage up in the BIOS, you're adding (or subtracting) a small voltage to the regulator's reference voltage.

It's documented under the power and thermal management section in the 'BIOS and Kernel Developers Guide for the AMD Athlon 64 and AMD Opteron processors'

Edit: fixed a typo
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Last edited by Áedán; 3rd July, 2004 at 12:46 PM.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 11:41 AM
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I knew Aedan would do the same as I did !! I had to read through all this stuff almost 2 years ago and didn't get the chance to see it really happening until last May when I had my first board and 1.4GHz engineering sample.

This is why load temperatures and idle temperatures even without cool and quiet are very very different also. At stock my 3700+ can be 32 degrees idle and upto 46 degrees load because of a) loading and b) vref pull up to increase current stability under load.

If I'm doing a 2.65Ghz o/c and need to use 1.7v, I will under load record in my USDM logs a peak voltage of 1.8 or so and temps of upto 54 degrees. Remember that these are only reference measurements a la Winbond.
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Old 3rd July, 2004, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bertolli
Many of the earlier boards for AMD 64 (754 pin) only allowed for a 1.55 vcore.

Its all u need to achieve a decent oc anyways, as the ondie memory controller can't handle extreme vcore well. some guys have fried their AMD 64's with 1.7 vcore.

I've never had to apply more then a 1.55 vcore as I don't bother running high HTT & lower mem frequencies (with a divider in place, asynchronous) as it lowers performance.

I'd rather run 228-230 fsb at 1:1 with 1.55 vcore and not stress out the imbedded memory controller.
On NF3 250 platform noticeable gains can be made by increasing LDT and decreasing memory ratio - a recorded fact in our R&D.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPoX Tech
On NF3 250 platform noticeable gains can be made by increasing LDT and decreasing memory ratio - a recorded fact in our R&D.
Whoever did that research I certainly question.....Prolly the same guy that thinks a 300 watt POWER SUPPLY is adequate for AMD 64....



Anandtech hit 283 FSB at 1:1 on an Epox 8KDA3+
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2063&p=7

The imbedded memory controller utilizes EXTREMELY low latency BEST, running asynchronously is WASTING PERFORMANCE.

How did you qualify as an Epox Tech?....

Their standards these days need to be questioned.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July, 2004, 10:26 PM
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Well AOA's standards remain pretty unchanging. Your remarks were uncalled for and without foundation. This, to say nothing of being extremely rude.

You'll no longer have access to this Topic. I hope you can find a way to treat the people you may meet in our other topics better.
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Old 3rd July, 2004, 10:42 PM
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I have to agree running Async seems to be worse. I got 325HTT on my cpu the memory was @ 160MHZ, using 3-3-3-8-1T timmings and i got 2300/2300 for my sandra benchmark.

@ 235HTT 235MHZ on the memory running 1:1 ratio i got 3400/3400 using the same timmings.
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Old 3rd July, 2004, 11:00 PM
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Here's what I'd do and have done more times than I can count.

Just flat out ask ET how to make it go better. This coy tactic as has improved more benchmarks than I could shake a stick at! ":O}

Then try it! See for yourself if he knows what he's talking about.

I mean ET is already happy with his stuff and I don't think anyone is going to make him unhappy with his stuff.

So what we really need to look at is making you happy with your stuff, right?

So go on ask him, He'll get no porridge if he isn't nice to you! LOL
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Old 3rd July, 2004, 11:15 PM
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so the voltage goin up and down during load and idle is normal. This sucks because if want to get 2.6ghz i need 1.7v but on load it does 1.8v and thats way to high.

Is thier anyway to get te fan to spin faster on the stock HSF cuss 2900-3000Rpm is slow...
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Old 4th July, 2004, 12:06 PM
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Daniel is smart

So let me get this straight. Of course, I don't own one of these boards yet. Still keeping my options open before I spend $300 on a CPU and board

The CPU speed is a multiplier of the HTT bus.

The memory speed is a multiplier of the HTT bus.

The actual HTT speed is a multiplier of the HTT bus.

But, like 12 months ago, everyone said that the memory speed was going to be a divisor of the CPU speed!

If you think about, it's just semantics.

But as to the "asynchronous/synchronous" terminology... memory accesses are not travelling over the HTT bus, correct? Otherwise you'd need an HTT endpoint at the DIMM slots, and I don't see any of those. So, if:

HTT bus = 200mhz
HTT speed = x3 = 600mhz (this really doesn't matter)
CPU speed = x9 = 1800mhz
Memory speed = 5:4 = 250mhz

This is truly an asynchronous situation, as the memory speed is 1/7.2 of the CPU speed. However:

HTT bus = 200mhz
HTT speed = x3 = 600mhz (this really doesn't matter)
CPU speed = x9 = 1800mhz
Memory speed = 9:8 = 225mhz

This is actually a synchronous situation, despite the wacky memory multiplier, because the memory speed is 1/8 of the CPU speed.

Assuming that your memory runs a max of 250mhz, then you, the educated overclocker, would proceed with the aid of a calculator to test it at both 250mhz, and 225mhz, and see which gave the best results. And I'm ignoring the effect that the HTT multiplier has on AGP/PCI/etc performance - should I be? After all, my 9800p turns out lower scores at 70mhz AGP than 66mhz AGP.

Or is my whole theory incorrect?

Edit: Apparently what I'm calling "HTT Bus" is being called "FSB".
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Old 4th July, 2004, 12:20 PM
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This is the way I understand things are:

HTT Bus: The HyperTransport link to the 'Southbridge' and it's peripherals, such as keyboard, mouse, PCI slots, AGP slots and anything else that's not memory!

Master clock: The master clock signal fed to the CPU by the motherboard. This also appears to be known as the HTT clock, which might be where a lot of confusion comes from.

Memory bus: The DDR memory bus between the CPU and the memory. This is directly connected to the CPU.

Core speed: The speed of the CPU core itself, as opposed to any I/O.

FSB: AMD64 doesn't have an FSB, as the memory controller is directly on the die itself.

From my understanding, the HTT clock is actually the master clock for all functions on the CPU. In other words, it feeds into the phase locked loop (PLL) on the CPU that then derives the various frequencies that the CPU needs.

The core frequency is generated by the PLL by multiplying the master clock frequency upwards.

The memory bus frequency is generated by the PLL by either multiplying or dividing the master clock frequency.

The HTT bus speed is set by taking the master clock and multiplying it up.
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Old 4th July, 2004, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandymanCan
so the voltage goin up and down during load and idle is normal. This sucks because if want to get 2.6ghz i need 1.7v but on load it does 1.8v and thats way to high.

Is thier anyway to get te fan to spin faster on the stock HSF cuss 2900-3000Rpm is slow...
It *might* be possible to cut the tracks (or lift pins, depending on the voltage regulator) leading to the VID pins, and force them (with resistors) to a particular setting, so that the voltage is fixed. However, this is a lot of work to do.

As far as the fan goes, if you want a faster fan, then you'll probably have to replace the stock fan.
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