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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 6th March, 2002, 11:39 PM
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Epox answers user inquiries about ti4600

I found this on google at: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ge...l.co.uk&rnum=2 BTW this says a lot about Epox. They're one of the few companies willing to listen to end user complaints and actually reply without it falling on deaf ears. I believe if they do determine that there are problems with certain boards that they will offer some sort of solution. The petition IMO really isn't neccessary.

Dear 8KHA+ Users :
>
>
> As of March 1, 2002 EPoX has received claims from customers that there is a
> conflict between the 8KHA+ and Visiontek's GeForce 4 Ti 4600. Currently we
> have not been able to confirm where the problem lies and it is being closely
> looked at by our technical engineers and R/D. EPoX and the 8KHA+ has been
> the motherboard of choice for much of the computer enthusiast community and
> we will make every effort possible to keep positive communication and
> interaction between EPoX and this community. As for now please always use
> caution when inserting any riser cards (i.e. VGA cards) into EPoX
> motherboards, as well as any other manufacturers. This practice will prevent
> any forceful damages in the future.
>
> Please note that here at EPoX we are always open to hear your comments and
> complaints and as always we strive to make sure all problems are dealt with
> in a timely and correct manner. Thank you for choosing EPoX for your
> motherboard needs and we look forward to providing your future motherboard
> needs.
>
> Samuel Kang
>
> Marketing / Product Manager
> Production Department
> North American Operation
> EPoX International, Inc. USA
> E-Mail: Samuel.Kang@epox.com
> Web: www.epox.com
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Last edited by 5150Joker; 6th March, 2002 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 6th March, 2002, 11:59 PM
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WELL here is a solution posted by one of the VP's of R&D at Epox, not sure how I'd feel about doing this but it may work:

EPoX Computer Co., Ltd., a leading developer and manufacturer of high end mainboard, storage and communication solutions is giving today an official press statement, regarding technical issues being discovered by users when using an EP-8KHA, EP-8KHA+ and a VisionTek GF4 Ti4600 graphic card.

Mr. Thomas Huang, VP of Research & Development Dept. of EPoX Computer said: “Regarding the high capacitor on EPoX motherboard EP-8KHA, EP-8KHA+, it was designed to optimize the stability of a DDR motherboard. While DDR solution was first introduced in the first quarter of 2001, according to the technical information the power consumption of the DDR memory will be much higher than SDRAM architecture. EPoX’s technicians decided to use switch circuit design. And the output end came important. After evaluating all the graphic cards sold in the market and ensure there was no mechanism conflicts, to keep wider tolerance in memory voltage and current, the bigger capacitors (1500ìf/6.3V, LSR capacitors) was complemented to reserve big space and optimize the voltage stability. Each EP-8KHA and EP-8KHA+ even equipped with 2 of them.

However according to the real experiences of using the selling DDR modules in the market, the power consumption is much lower than it was reported. In fact one 1500ìf/6.3V, LSR capacitors is enough to handle it. In EPoX internal testing, the stability and overclockability is still very high without any influences.”

By case users has difficulty in installing VisionTek GF4 Ti4600 graphic card on EPoX EP-8KHA+ and EP-8KHA, the first solution will be removing the CE6 capacitor. If users are not experienced in solder iron, they can use pliers to remove this component. If users are still confused with it or have any questions, they can contact any EPoX branch office in worldwide."


Source: http://www.multi-hardware.com/affnews.php3?p=0#2235
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Old 7th March, 2002, 12:03 AM
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I guess that means it's basically ok to just snap the capacitor off the mobo...I don't know how cool that is. If someone who has a GF4 tries this out, please post so we know whether it works or not.
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Old 7th March, 2002, 12:36 AM
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Perhaps that's why the new 8K3A has less caps in that position, they found they weren’t needed?

I know one thing, I'm not trying it! :nervous:
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Old 7th March, 2002, 12:41 AM
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Come one, one of you rich people try it and let us know how it goes I'm tempted but I guess I'd rather just take the board back for an alternative board. I don't have the money to risk shorting out my system hehe.
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Old 7th March, 2002, 12:47 AM
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If I had one of those GF4 video cards that didn't fit, I would definately do it. I don't have one though, so it makes very little sense for me to risk messing up my system. I'm sure one of the hardware websites will try it out and report on it. Hopefully soon because I'm kind of curious now as to what would happen.
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Old 7th March, 2002, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by spirits247
Perhaps that's why the new 8K3A has less caps in that position, they found they weren’t needed?
Not only does the 8K3A have one less capcitor, it uses linear power regulation rather than switching power regulation . . .
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Old 7th March, 2002, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dimmreaper
Not only does the 8K3A have one less capcitor, it uses linear power regulation rather than switching power regulation . . .
I wonder if that would have any effect on stability when using overclocked memory at very high voltages....probably not.

I wonder how removing that capacitor would affect your guarantee ?
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Old 7th March, 2002, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
I wonder how removing that capacitor would affect your guarantee ?
Don't wonder...be sure there won't be any after physically damaging your board. Anyway...it's a rather cheap board. Someone should try it. I don't have one yet
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Old 7th March, 2002, 08:12 AM
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I will probably try it when my gf4 comes in tomorrow morning. Fry's don't check anything when you return stuff like mainboards and my wife has a friend that works in their RMA section so she just hands us a credit receipt everytime we return something w/out looking at what's inside the box. I'm going to test it with my gf1 and most of my hardware disconnected, last thing i want is to burn out all my components. I'll keep you guys updated.
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Old 7th March, 2002, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Holst


I wonder if that would have any effect on stability when using overclocked memory at very high voltages....probably not.
No it should not effect the overclockability at all, so long as the linear regulator is properly implemented.

The advantage to a linear supply is that it require less components, and less PCB space. In other words linear supplies are more cost effective than switching supplies.

The disadvantages to linear supplies are that they are less efficient than a switching supplies, they tends to generate more heat, and they are not practical for high current applications or applications that require a significant voltage reduction.

So you see, a linear supply is very well suited for a memory power supply. As memory speeds ramp, and memory voltages drop, multi-phase switching supplies may become neccessary, but not any time soon . . . .
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 7th March, 2002, 08:52 AM
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dimmreaper, think it'll be safe to pull off the offending capacitor like epox suggests?
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Old 7th March, 2002, 09:49 AM
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All this talk off pulling off - isn't that a little rude ?

I personally wouldn't be pulling anything off !!
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Old 7th March, 2002, 09:51 AM
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PULL OFF PUUULLL IT!
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Old 7th March, 2002, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wild_andy_c
All this talk off pulling off - isn't that a little rude ?

I personally wouldn't be pulling anything off !!
Ok, here it goes - I'm wriiggling it, now flexing back and forth, easing it off, yep, here we go it's about to come, reaching the climax..............nope sorry I've chickened out. It could get messy.

The CAPACITOR stays put.
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Old 7th March, 2002, 10:12 AM
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To start ripping components off one's mobo without some "official" word from Epox doesn't seem too terribly bright to me.
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Old 7th March, 2002, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 5150Joker
dimmreaper, think it'll be safe to pull off the offending capacitor like epox suggests?
All it is is a filtering capacitor. Basically it's there to clean up the power, and to handle sudden changes in load were the switching controller can't react quickly enough to the voltage drop.

As there are two of them in place, I see no harm in removing it. It shouldn't fry anything anyway.

Personally, I'd buy a capacitor of the same specs, leave the new capacitor's leads long, bend the leads 90 degrees, and solder the new capacitor on to the motherboard so it is lying down. Weather this is necessary or not for optimum overclocking results I do not know, but it's what I would do.

Another alternative would be to move the VGA card's interfering capacitor to the other side of the card, but this would void the VGA cards warrantee, and the VGA card costs more than the motherboard.

I'm a bit sick of all the complaining myself. Both the fixes I mentioned are very easy. If you have a soldering iron, even if you have never used it before, you can fix this.

If someone doesn't feel comfortable fixing this problem, or doesn't want to risk voiding any warrantee's then they simply shouldn't purchase cards that don't fit. They should instead buy card's like the MSI GF4 Ti4600, or an ATI alternative.

I don't see this as EPoX's fault, as many folks seem to. I see this as Nvidia's fault. This is not just a problem with EPoX boards, but other brands as well. Nvidia did not put enough leg work in to there reference design. They should have made sure that the clearances were adequate for every modern performance motherboard.

I hope EPoX sees the light and starts making there own Nvidia cards. Then we can always be sure to have complete compatibility while getting the highest performance around. Sort of a "have your cake and eat it too" kind of thing. It would be grand.
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Old 7th March, 2002, 10:38 AM
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Well I'm not to keen on soldering since I'd probably mess something up while attempting to put a new capacitor on or lengthen the existing one. As long as there's 2 switches and one of them isn't neccessary, i may just remove the one that's in the way of the video card. I only overclock to about 150 fsb max so I'm not one of those 180+ fsb extreme overclockers, so hopefully it won't affect me. I've been considering alternative boards but honestly I'd rather risk voiding my warranty than settling for another board that i may not like.
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Old 7th March, 2002, 05:57 PM
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Has anyone tried removing the capacitor yet?
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Old 8th March, 2002, 03:45 AM
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It seems that some boards are fine as joker seems to be

It fits perfectly!!

Quote:
Originaly posted by 5150joker

"Just got my visiontek ti4600 in and I'm happy to report it fits perfectly with my 8kha+!! There's about 1 or 2 mm clearance between the capacitors and if you push the card up slightly when you screw it in you can increase the clearance even more without stressing the card. I got 10992 3d mark points with everything at default! This card is amazingly fast!! I did have a problem with instability when i ran q2 timedemo but i think that's because I need to do a reinstall of xp since it was already flakey before i got the card. My board is revision 2.0 if that helps and it shipped with the 1/8/02 bios i believe. I used detonator 27.70 drivers, going to go to class right now but I'll be running some more benchmarks/tweaks after i get home tonight

-A very happy
5150 Joker"
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