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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 25th March, 2007, 09:14 PM
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EP-8RGA boot problem

Hello, i am having a problem with my computer and can't find solution. Anyways, problem was that one day when i powered it on, the image on screen was twitching (i am using onboarg graphics). luckily i have other computer with AGP card so i placed it in AGP slot. I managed to get stable image on screen with radeon 9250 card but after arround 30 sec my PC freezes (keyboard does not react at all, and i cant shut it down normally). I even tried replacing ram modules with other ones, and changing power supply. At the end, I got the board out and placed only AGP card on it and when i power it on, still the same, computer works for 30 sec and freezes. Also, pc health section of boot screen shows numbers (some voltages and cpu fan speed) below normal. What to do? Can this problem be solved or should i get new motherboard?

Thanx in advance
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Old 25th March, 2007, 09:45 PM
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Wheather or not your problem can be solved is at this point hard to say.

It would be great if you could provide your complete system specs, including the power supply units you tried.

Definately check your event viewer in the administrative tools to see if some type of AGP errors are reported.

Did you change anything that might be important before you started having this problem? And how long have you been having the problem?

Also please report the voltage lines of which you think are below normal.

And last but certainly not least you will need to physically inspect your board. Check for bulging or leaking capacitors, as shown in the picture below, on your board. If you find some of them in this condition you won't need to look much further.
Many boards of many different manufacturers released in a similar point in time suffer from this condition after some time of use.
Those capacitors need to be perfectly flat at their top.

http://www.burtonsys.com/bad_BP6/PA090013.JPG
http://jpowell.blogs.com/jason_powel...s/dellcaps.jpg
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Old 25th March, 2007, 10:38 PM
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although now i seriously doubt any other device is causing problem, i will write config down:

Epox EP-8RGA motherboard
Samsung PC2700 256MB RAM
Club 3D Radeon 9250 128 MB (before it was onboard graphics)
Codegen 300X PSU

parts that i changed : RAM PQI DDR-333 356 MB
PSU Maxpower
these parts are working as intended in other computers.. also RAM that is on MB is also checked and working.. and PSU

also, on the boot screen i can read following informations:

BIOS checksum error - defaults loaded
warning! BIOS has been flash or JCLK jumper has been changed (which is not)

Vdd: 1.21V
Vdimm: 1.12V
+5V: 1.88V
+12V: 4.25V
CPU temp: 70°C
Vcore: 1.12V
5VSB: 1.88V (i doubt these voltages are correct, as they are changing numbers)

Also, i have to shut down PC after every boot, and when i turn it on again, it sometimes freezes immediately, sometimes gets to boot screen..

also, there is 8 segment indicator on board that shows some codes after freeze like : 7F, 6F, 6b

ofc, nothing has been changed on this PC b4 the problems started, then i was using onboard graphics (which now seems unusable, when i connect it to monitor screen is twitching)

Edit: i also checked MB for physical damages, and there are no signs of electrical shock and all capacitors have perfectly flat top and no signs of leaking.
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Old 26th March, 2007, 11:26 AM
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It doesn't look good, as you well know.

You should always take reported voltages with a grain of salt but if these values are being reported by the bios indeed something is terribly wrong. They should at least look like the real deal, which they absolutely don't.
But if these values were correct you wouldn't be able to get your board even beyond POST. An undervolted CPU and memory like that just cannot function like this. And with such an undervolted CPU you do get a very high CPU temperature, that's somewhat of a paradox.

I would suggest you take out as many components as you can. No storage devices, one memory module and no PCI cards. Then check wheather those readings in the PC Health screen in the bios are similar.
If there aren't any improvements or changes you might do good to underclock every component heavily to reduce the strain on your system. Then use a tool like memtest86 to test your memory (use test 5 for at least 4 passes) and if stable update your bios version. Then try again. But don't try to reflash your bios chip with an unstable system as that will only make things worse.
Possibly your onboard voltage regulator is on its way out, and if that's the problem your board will be leaving with it.
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Old 26th March, 2007, 01:36 PM
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you have confirmed what i have allready suspected.. that my MB is gone for good.. I did all you said (removed all devices except graphics card and left only 1 RAM module) allready, and it did not help at all. Since system halts after 15-30 sec there isn't much diagnostic i can do, and also i cannot set up the bios because there is basically no time to do it before the system halt. I will replace the motherboard and see what happens.

thank you for your help.
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Old 26th March, 2007, 06:36 PM
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Let us know how this works out for you. Welcome to AOA!
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Old 28th March, 2007, 04:08 AM
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Question

just a coupla notes:

1) EP-8RGA
2) Codegen 300X PSU
3) i am using onboard graphics
4) Samsung PC2700 256MB RAM

Number 2) isn't adequate for what you were trying to do. I know -- you said it works fine in other boards... but maybe just not for this one.
This board seems to really like the 365W version 1.3 or 2.0 Enermax for some reason, which puts out 33, 35, and 26 amps on the 3.3, 5, and 12 volt rails. Recheck the specs on the Codegen and you'll really shy away from hooking up another NF2 dual channel board to it, especially with onboard graphics.

Also, a psu with the 4 pin connector (with the 12v and ground leads) must be used, in order to get enough power to the pwms servicing the cpu. (but you knew that, right?)
So if the psu version you were using didn't have them, the oscillator circuits for the pwms, and also the cpu, were starving and probably puked a pumping diode, then the pwm controller took a hike.

Something else you might want to watch out for on this board, if you get another one, is that the pwm inductor windings are often folded down and touching the legs of the pwms (or in some cases even the pwm controller feedback resistors). Them rubbing through their insulation onto any of these components spells instant death to the board -- gently bend them up before powering a new board, so they don't short.

3) & 4) If you're going to use onboard graphics on another NF2 board, you really need to install 2 identical sticks of memory, in dual channel configuration. Otherwise... sketchy-slash-laggy performance, and sometimes misdecisions that really don't show the boards inherent abilities very well.
The post screen will say "dual channel" when you have them in the correct slots; put one in dimm 1, and one in dimm2.
Also, make sure you're not running the dimms and cpu fsb out of sync ~ {if the mem is setup on spd, for instance, it may override the auto sync setting to 100% of cpu fsb}.

Question: Are you gonna pull out another RGA... or are you stepping up to something else?

If you're getting the identical board, track down the 3.13 platform drivers for XP, don't use the swide driver when it asks, and don't use the drivers on the disk that came with the board. They're exact to this boards development, and really help it be quick.

Enough of me. Post back with the drama.
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Old 28th March, 2007, 01:58 PM
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hi again... i read the post above and i think you did not understand things as they are (dunno if it is my fault).

1) This motherboard was working for almost 2 years.. It had some stability issues (occasional BSOD's and other windows errors), but i allways thought it were the drivers or onboard graphics (taking memory from system) that caused problems. So it definitely is not PSU issue.

2) I am absolutely sure that this motherboard does not have dual channel since it has 3 DIMM slots. Also, it had only 1 RAM module installed at all times (DIMM 1).

3) OFC i connected 4 pin connector, cause if not, system does not boot (CPU probably does not switch on)

4) i will buy new MB, that is for certain and it will be ASROCK ASR-K7S41G because this is kind of old CPU socket and this is all i can find atm. I will not upgrade this PC because it is working computer and i really dont need more than this.. i will rather upgrade my gaming PC

P.S. Athlon XP 1800+ is installed on this board.. do you think it could be CPU that is causing problem (i personally doubt it because onboard graphics was 1st to indicate problem).
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Old 28th March, 2007, 08:33 PM
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I think you should try to find an nforce2 board. Those won't cost more and they are better. Feature-wise and stability-wise.
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Old 28th March, 2007, 09:19 PM
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Your issue stated in number 1 could be due to PSU. It is one of the main reasons of system crashes and boot problems.
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Old 28th March, 2007, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf2000me
I think you should try to find an nforce2 board. Those won't cost more and they are better. Feature-wise and stability-wise.

no thnx.. nforce never again i guess. personal experiences with PC's that ppl arround me have say that mb's based on nforce chipset (any nforce chipset) cause loads of problems, have loads of crashes.. also i have MSI motherboard with VIA chipset on other computer with no name 300W PSU (Maxpower) and I never had a BSOD in it's lifetime (arround 1,5 years)

i might be wrong, but that is what i see in practice every day.
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Old 29th March, 2007, 12:50 AM
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QUOTE 1: "P.S. Athlon XP 1800+ is installed on this board.. do you think it could be CPU that is causing problem (i personally doubt it because onboard graphics was 1st to indicate problem)."

Actually, the pwm controller shuts down so fast, when an abnormal voltage is sensed, that it is unlikely that the cpu would be damaged, if good...

so it's up to testing in another board to see, actually, unless you just don't feel like taking the chance.

Conversely, if the cpu were to short internally, the pwm controller would shut down as well, in order to prevent damage to the aspects of the board.

QUOTE 2: "It had some stability issues (occasional BSOD's and other windows errors), but i allways thought it were the drivers or onboard graphics (taking memory from system) that caused problems."

Patch those statements to the remark I made as follows:

"If you're going to use onboard graphics on another NF2 board, you really need to install 2 identical sticks of memory, in dual channel configuration. Otherwise... sketchy-slash-laggy performance, and sometimes misdecisions..."

QUOTE 3: "I am absolutely sure that this motherboard does not have dual channel since it has 3 DIMM slots. Also, it had only 1 RAM module installed at all times (DIMM 1)."

Recheck your manual, where it says 128 bit memory interface with identical memory in Slots 1 & 2, or in Slots 1 & 3. Yeah man, it's got dual...
and onboard graphics needs dual as bad as the board needs the 4-pin, actually.
Well.. ok.. it'll post and whatnot, but really sucks at going anywhere predictable or quick that way.

QUOTE 4: "[refer to contents of POST #11]"

[Ok, I'll put the paddles away. Doctor, will you call the time of death?]

QUESTION: Will the viewing be public, or is it a private affair?
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Old 29th March, 2007, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragecvragec
no thnx.. nforce never again i guess. personal experiences with PC's that ppl arround me have say that mb's based on nforce chipset (any nforce chipset) cause loads of problems, have loads of crashes.. also i have MSI motherboard with VIA chipset on other computer with no name 300W PSU (Maxpower) and I never had a BSOD in it's lifetime (arround 1,5 years)

i might be wrong, but that is what i see in practice every day.
You are getting stuck on a number. I have had no name 450 watt PSU start causing crashes and a junky 350 watt worked fine. Each supply is different. The one on the machine that is crashing may just be crap.
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Old 29th March, 2007, 03:27 AM
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Actually, when fine tuned, I thought (and still think) these boards are able to be made competitively quick, for what they were intended for.

I've had them booting and benching with nothing but onboard video at 200 fsb (and as much as 10 plus), depending on the cooling choice, but...

I've got one 8rga mAtx deviation right now (the 8rgmi) that is slapped in a MicroFly case...

With the psu that came with the case (20 amp 12v advertised, and slightly less than I love on the 3.3), I can't get over 180 fsb (2070) and artifacting shows up in the display.
Coincidentally, the 12v and 3.3 lines show up sagging, at the slightest hint of cpu / mem load, by common monitors, even before I get very much past the 175 mark. NB lapped @ 1.8v, and active heatpipe cooled -- still no joy.
As soon as the 12v line goes under 11.9, the pooch is screwed...

and I know that A) the cpu is good for 2200+ MHz @ 1.55V.. and B) the mem can go 200 at 2-3-2-9 without even flinching -- in a different case, with an EG-365 VE 1.3 pumping 26 amps @ 12.78V. Same board; same temps.

Like he said, it's moot to his concerns though, I guess.
I just got on one of my binges, thinking the info might be handy or helpful, huh?

[Eh, it's all good]
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Old 29th March, 2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragecvragec
no thnx.. nforce never again i guess. personal experiences with PC's that ppl arround me have say that mb's based on nforce chipset (any nforce chipset) cause loads of problems, have loads of crashes.. also i have MSI motherboard with VIA chipset on other computer with no name 300W PSU (Maxpower) and I never had a BSOD in it's lifetime (arround 1,5 years)

i might be wrong, but that is what i see in practice every day.
I only experience BSOD when I've overclocked to unstable parameters. I've never had real issues with my nforce2 boards other than those, except for memory issue's with a certain type of modules. But every configuration is different of course. It's a matter of taste and preference. Take the board chipset you feel like using, but make sure you take a good one.

I would suggest to also get a decent PSU. It may not be the problem here and it could be totally redundant but that way you are sure that the PSU at least is providing stable power. I for one will never use a generic PSU ever again. Call it reducing factors in the equation. Plus, such PSU can go a long way in upgrading the rest of the system.

Do note that your CPU thermal diode read 70°C with a reported vcore of 1.12v. That's a huge undervolting and a huge temperature too. So unless your monitoring chip is busted the 70°C is a good temperature indication. Something tells me then that either the heatsink is badly placed and/or there's an overcurrent on the CPU. Both of these are very hazardous to the health of the CPU. So check it for damage in another board to be sure.
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Old 29th March, 2007, 02:46 PM
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ok.. breaking news.. came from work today and decided to check mb capacitors again.. and yes, i found damaged capacitors (last time i checked i was probably very tired or something)

Following capacitors have visible signs of leaking: CE33, CE34, CE36, CE38, CE44 (all placed between NB and SB) , and 2 capacitors placed between DIMM1 and DIMM3 (on "top" and "bottom").

Wanted to post a photo of them, but cant find mobile phone tools CD so i can transfer it from phone to PC.

Sorry for misleading you saying all capacitors are fine.
QUESTION: What's next? Trash can or some soldering?

QUOTE: "Recheck your manual, where it says 128 bit memory interface with identical memory in Slots 1 & 2, or in Slots 1 & 3. Yeah man, it's got dual..."

mmmkay, i'm a nub.. But was allways wondering why there are only two banks and 3 slots on board

Ofc, do not take things i wrote in post #11 for granted (mainly because of the fact i'm a nub ) i might have PC based on some nforce chipset in future.. i just think VIA based motherboards are for normal users where you dont have to fine tune everything, from planning adequate components to aquiring that exact version of drivers in order to make things work fine.. correct me if i am wrong pls.

I really hope this drama is getting an epilogue soon.

And greatest thankyous to all the people that posted here.. I learned lot of new things and terms from this discussion!!
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Old 29th March, 2007, 04:35 PM
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Check AOA FAQ, and front page. Gizmo did an excellent article on soldering caps and where to get replacements.
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Old 29th March, 2007, 10:19 PM
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I would replace caps using Gizmos guide on a board with a higher market value. So unless you really get a kick out of fixing it yourself I wouldn't recommend it. I know plenty of people fitting that description though

You're probably one of the last batch of victims from the famous capacitor problem. That's why the guide exists in the first place.
You don't need to take pics of them, plenty of people already beat you to it
Note that those bad cap problems occurred with as good as all manufacturers and was not chipset related. It looks more like a problem from within a specific timeframe. Get a board made after that timeframe.

So what you could do next is totally up to you. There are many paths to follow.
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Old 30th March, 2007, 01:59 PM
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i found gizmo's guide very interesting, easy to understand and thorough.. i especially liked first page where he nicely explained all you need to know about capacitors (and since i am electronical technician, i know how long is the capacitors section in the book ).. I will buy new mb today, but i will try to repair this old one to gather some more experience.

but... there is a problem.. i doubt that NIC capacitors can be bought in Croatia, since there is no distributor for this country.. are there any alternatives to NIC capacitors?
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Old 30th March, 2007, 05:14 PM
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All else fails, could you just use a nic card to replace the onboad? Or is it wired in in such a way as to be need for other things? Could you steal them from a nic card?
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