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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 2nd May, 2002, 08:10 PM
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8K3A+ Random Lockups in OpenGL, D3D Applications/ Games

After upgrading to a Epox 8K3A+ motherboard i have been experiancing random freezing while running OpenGL or D3D Applications or Games.
I have tried tweaking and adjusting the bios, different operating systems, different hardware bits (PSU, PCI cards, gfx cards, hard drives, memory) and still no luck.

At first i thought it might of been a graphics card fault however i ran microscope and many other professional diagnostic programs and came up with no fault at all. i have tried every graphics card at work as well as hardware.

This includes GeForce 2MX, GeForce, S3 Virge, GeForce 3 ti200/500, GeForce 4 440/460/MX, Radeon 7500/8500, Matrox 200/440/500 the list goes on and so far i am still experiancing the same random lock ups.

I have also tried to strip the machine down so all i have is a hard drive, gfx card thats it no sound card, cd rom etc and still nothing.

I have NEVER had this problem in the past with other motherboards and i know it isnt a IRQ sharing problem as i have tried ever combination known to man when inserting PCI cards.

At first i thought it might of been a software problem as it might of been something i have installed, but this was corrected when i tried multiply operating systems and still had same problem. I have installed the latest 1.47 and 1.48 still nothing. I installed these in safemode then rebooted and installed the other drivers. I have tried both safe mode and normal mode and still nothing, i have tried different gfx drivers and other drivers for other devices and still nothing.
I use windows 2k and linux suse and in windows 2k i have installed latest service pack, drivers, direct x 8.1, updates etc. still nothing.

Bret Morey sugested to me to remove via and start again installing them in safemode then gfx drivers in normal mode. This didnt work either.

I understand how the via drivers work and how to install them etc and i have even looked at pevious patchs back in the 686B days and the PCI Latency problems still nothing.

I am NOT experiancing AGP tearing that i know off i am not overclocking at the moment. Also i know my AGP Tearing is at 206fsb and i am running 133fsb to be safe until this is fixed.

I have tried increasing voltage because this can sometimes make the system more stable and still no change.

I have also tried different CPU's from work (ALL the AthlonXP range) and memory so that elimiates them.

My case is AIR cooled and idle temp is 37 deg c and 41 on full load so i am not experiancing heating problems.

I have made sure that ALL my drivers are WHQL certified, and i am using a 421W powersupply i KNOW is NOT faulty one bit.

The motherboard is on 28/03/02 bios (the LATEST official update) which i updated as soon as i got the motherboard before i put the operating system on.

I am NOT using a soundblaster card because i KNOW of the VIA and SB conflicts i am using a SonicFury which works FINE with VIA chipsets. I have also tried a SB live and audigy in the same computer and i still experiance lockups.

AT the moment i am using a geforce 2 ti which i KNOW is 100% working and has no errors at all. I also know that the 23.11 drivers are the BEST ones for a Geforce 2 because later versions are tweaked and optimised for GeForce 3 etc.

I know about the PCI Latency and Delay settings, agp driving, memory timing, agp aperature and the other bios tweaks.

Contacted Epox Tech support in the UK 26th April and have recieved about 3 one line replies from them. PLEASE can MR Epox Tech PM me or reply below whats going on and what is causing this problem? I know it cant be a hardware device conflict because i have tried everything. the ONLY thing i cant test is the Epox Mainboard itself with the VIA chipset onboard. However i do know the board is working and isnt faulty (i dont think).

Can anyone provide me any help what so ever?

Also... if you do wonder by this thread please dont just read and view it post a comment below, maybe the comment you post might help someone find a fix to the problem me and many others are having.

Thanks,
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May, 2002, 05:00 AM
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I am afraid that whilst I am out of the office on business I cannot answer your e-mail at this moment.

I do recall seeing yesterday an e-mail from yourself complaining that I had not answered your e-mail - note that an e-mail arriving on Wednesday not being answered by Thursday afternoon (specifics I cannot remember unfortunatley) is not a bad thing.

We have received several lengthly e-mails from yourself, all of the nature of your first posting over a very short period of time without extensive chance to answer in each instance. The support form is not used with these e-mails to give a structured layout of the syste components you use and as such it is difficult to work out what the system actually consists of. You must appreciate this.

Please do detail the Model number of the 421W Sparkle PSU that you are using and the memory type on the Matrox 440 graphics card that you are using.

Please also give details of all the WDM drivers that you are using in the system.

Is this a fresh windows installation on a clean partition? Is the registry prepped (as per A+ cert.) ?

What is the memory ? Is it 1st on 1st, maj. on 3rd ? If PC2700 is it JEDEC ratified ?
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Old 3rd May, 2002, 01:24 PM
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sorry know of topic but...

Uuum what the geeez is JEDEC ratified ?
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May, 2002, 05:50 PM
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i went on games yesterday for an hour and will continue to test it again today however i think i have fixed the problem.

I have tried several types of memory (it helps because i work at a computer place) and its not the memory. Tested al slots as well still nothing.

Tried this motherboard on my other system with a Enermax 430.

if it locks up on me in games hwen i go on in a couple of hours the board is going back to the shop and i am going to change to MSI. Have tried ASUS and Epox think it will be time for MSI if epox dun pull through.

My first Epox m/b too. I KNOW its NOT hardware compat problems beause i have tried everything we have in stock at work.
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Old 4th May, 2002, 09:22 AM
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You haven't answered any of the questions raised again - therefore I cannot begin to advise !!
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 4th May, 2002, 09:34 AM
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Sorry but why do u need the model number of my PSU's for? I have tried multiply and u can forget even thinking they are faulty.

Which WDM drivers are u after?

For starters i have installed several devices and still nothing, Also have stripped it down so i dont even have the devices in to cause a conflict.

OK lets start from the begining. i have NO PCI devices in my computer just a AGP graphics card.

So the only question i need to answer now is memory,

I have tried Crucial 2700 512MB/ 256MB in slots 1, 2 and 3
Cosair 2700 512/256 in slots 1, 2 and 3
Samsung 2700 512/256 in slots 1, 2 and 3.

Also i am now using a GeForce 2 Ti this time which as EXACTLY the same problems as the rest. Forget the Matrox 440 it still locked up in that so u can forget even mentioning the problems Matrox 440 have.

Would also like to mention i think i have fixed the problem as said before because it doesnt lock up after and hour of gaming however i aint played a game longer than 2 hours so i cant be sure. But still would like to know the cause and how to resolve it a easier way than i did
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 4th May, 2002, 10:56 AM
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It seems like you have tried lots of stuff.

Maybee trying another bios might help, there is a beta avalable.

Quote:
Would also like to mention i think i have fixed the problem as said before because it doesnt lock up after and hour of gaming however i aint played a game longer than 2 hours so i cant be sure. But still would like to know the cause and how to resolve it a easier way than i did
If you fixed it what did you do ?

Epox Tech - You probably got a message via epox support form about my dead 8kha+, as the shop agreed to sort the RMA for me you can disregard that message, (the name was Robinson)
If you do recieve a board from tekheads in sheffield with my name stuck on the printer port and you figure out what I broke then id appreciate your telling me, either email or post on here somewhere.
Thanks.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 4th May, 2002, 07:08 PM
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Got it - never state that you are using BETA BIOS though !!! BETA 2221
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Old 4th May, 2002, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EPoX Tech
Got it - never state that you are using BETA BIOS though !!! BETA 2221
I was, and I couldnt remember the names of any official ones.

I found a slight burn on the board, i think thats what killed it.

I took a picture of the damage here it is.

Im starting to think that I killed the board through something I did, what do you think could have cause this ?
Im thinking some sort of short possibly a bit of metal against the chipset pins. I didnt take the heatsink off to inspect it.
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8K3A+ Random Lockups in OpenGL, D3D Applications/ Games-epoxrip.jpg  
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 4th May, 2002, 08:09 PM
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You shouldn't show me this Matt !!!
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 4th May, 2002, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EPoX Tech
You shouldn't show me this Matt !!!
Your going to see it anyway... :P

Feel free to delete my posts if im putting you in an awquard position.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 5th May, 2002, 06:40 AM
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You know I'm only jesting - there is nothing un-toward with that PCB.
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Old 5th May, 2002, 06:23 PM
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lol GREAT picture! thats one damn rare site! anyways back to teh topic can u sugets any more solutions to my problem?
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Old 5th May, 2002, 07:04 PM
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Sorry EUPHORIA, i seem to have inadvertantly hijacked your thread.

As you have tried several Graphics cards, memory sticks, PSUs and CPUs ill rule out hardware incompatability for the moment.
If you have not tried an alternative of the above please do so.

Could this be a HDD problem ?, corrupt files could cause the problems you describe.

Otherwise you probably have a windows problem, most likely a driver one.

Download "memory stuff" from aoafiles.com that zip contains memtest86 DOS memory tester.
Can you pass the full test ?
Can you run superPI in wondows (also in the same zip) for 30min or so without errors ?

If you cant pass memtest unplugg your PCI/IDE devices, do you get the same error, and try playing with memory type and timings.

Then download prime95 from aoa, can you run the torture test for a few hours.
If you get errors then you may be overheating or have CPU problems (possibly other things too)

Could you have a loose cable ?

Is your home power outlet ok ? Can you try another.
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Old 5th May, 2002, 08:15 PM
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Try disabling "Assign IRQ to VGA"
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Old 5th May, 2002, 08:22 PM
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I could only say try another motherboard- Where do you work?
Spyder
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 6th May, 2002, 07:40 AM
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I am still intrigued as to the model number of the Sparkle 421W PSU that you are using and also the G440 graphics card details.
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Old 6th May, 2002, 12:24 PM
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I'm sure it was either the G400 or G450.
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Old 7th May, 2002, 06:37 PM
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No i dont use that graphics card at all, i am not a big fan of the Matrox gfx cards at all and they dont give me the power i need. Have tried several bios changes, tweaks etc. I am fimiliar with the bios and memory registers and i am able to program them myself.

I KNOW there are Matrox problems and i am not using that.

Holst: i am NOT getting any corrupt files what so ever.

I am using the latest copy of Microscope (http://www.micro2000.com/) which just happens to be one of the best if not the best diagnostics tool out there. Well... its well worth the amount of money you pay for it which just happens to be A LOT. We use this at work too and many other advanced expert diagnostic programs which are NOT windows based.

EPoX Tech: what is it with my PSU that intrigues u that much? BTW i have now changed to a Enermax 430W PSU and my old Sparkle PSU is in my other computer running fine. As mentioned before i have tried multiply PSU's including ones which have been tested and have been giving a FULL diagnostics check by a professional.

Holst: Its a known fact that Windows based diagnostics programs do not perform as good as non windows based ones. Programs such as memtest do NOT test memory as good as other diagnostic programs, All memtest does is fill and read using one method of diagnostic. You should try Microscope that offers 6+ ways to test different types of memory if u can afford around $440 + for it

Oh Epox Tech would like to mention that i have tested several of the same motherboard and have mine replaced twice and they all seem to have similar problems. The problem is partially the VIA chipset Epox use not the mainboard itself.

I have noticed a problem with motherboard and heat generated. it seems to be 7 - 10 deg C higher than my ASUS A7V333 dont suppose u have any possible theorys why this is? Would just like to clear this up that i have tried the Epox and Asus in my case kept everything apart from these the same. I was just wondering if you could explain why this is and possible reasons.
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Old 7th May, 2002, 07:05 PM
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Beats me then.

As you have tried a lagre number of hardware and software combinations this appears to be a motherboard issue.

Many other users can run 3d applications with similar configuartions without problems.

This points to a fault with you motherboard, or some other problem you have not anticipated.

As you have your board replaced, it must be the latter (unless you have had two bad boards, both with the same fault. thats highly unlikely)

I have on rare occations known of a bad power outlet causint problems, could you have a faulty mouse/keyboard. None of which is likely to be the fault.

Can you give a more detailed explanation of the exact problem with the games, including what they are, patch versions, drivers and graphics card used, and the exact nature of the fault. Maybee you have missed something on the software side of things that somebody might help with.

Quote:
I am still intrigued as to the model number of the Sparkle 421W PSU that you are using and also the G440 graphics card details.
You might as well answer this, ive never heard of a G440, what is it ?
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