AOA Forums AOA Forums AOA Forums Folding For Team 45 AOA Files Home Front Page Become an AOA Subscriber! UserCP Calendar Memberlist FAQ Search Forum Home


Go Back   AOA Forums > Hardware > General Hardware Discussion

General Hardware Discussion Hard drives, CD, DVD Monitors, All hardware questions not better served by our other Topics


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 28th October, 2002, 09:25 PM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

Hard drive shrinkage

I'm sure you've all seen it happen... After a nice clean format, you've lost some drive space somehow. I've got a 40g that I've formatted about 3,000 times (not really) and it only shows 37.3g available on the drive. I've tried writing zeros to the drive and can't seem to reclaim the pirated space. Is there a way to recover it, and what would someone use to accomplish this seemingly impossible feat? I'm stuck, and simply over looking at my 40gigger reading at 37.3g
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 28th October, 2002, 09:37 PM
Chief Systems Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 13,075

Re: Hard drive shrinkage

It was never there in the first place. That's cuz there's more than one way to measure the size of a drive.

There's the manufacturers way, which defines a Gigabyte to be 1000x1000x1000 bytes (1000000000).

There's the computer way, which defines a Gigabyte to be 1024x1024x1024 bytes (1073741824).

Of course, the manufacturers figures look bigger. They're meant to. It's just that they're defining Gigabyte to be a different size to the rest of the world.

If you expand your 40Gb drive out into bytes, according to the drive manufacturers you'll have 40000000000 bytes. (40x1000x1000x1000)

If you take 40000000000 bytes, and divide them according to a computer definition of Gb, you'll have 37.3Gb. ( 40000000000/ (1024*1024*1024) ).

AidanII
__________________
Any views, thoughts and opinions are entirely my own. They don't necessarily represent those of my employer (BlackBerry).
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 28th October, 2002, 09:54 PM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

While thats great information, the drive...all of them in fact, lose free space with each new nuke and pave. The 40 started out reading 39.8gb, but is slowly losing more space. I've got a 20g thats now reading 17.1. Its rather old and has been run through the mill a few dozen times. I'm just not sure if there is a way to reclaim the space, and if it was gone to begin with, why does it read differently from the date of purchase (so to speak)? I guess I'm more puzzled about the mystery gap than actually recovering it. I won't put any more than 35g on a 40g anyway, just to have the extra emergency space
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 28th October, 2002, 10:13 PM
Chief Systems Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 13,075

Quote:
Originally posted by unclemojo
While thats great information, the drive...all of them in fact, lose free space with each new nuke and pave. The 40 started out reading 39.8gb, but is slowly losing more space. I've got a 20g thats now reading 17.1. Its rather old and has been run through the mill a few dozen times. I'm just not sure if there is a way to reclaim the space, and if it was gone to begin with, why does it read differently from the date of purchase (so to speak)? I guess I'm more puzzled about the mystery gap than actually recovering it. I won't put any more than 35g on a 40g anyway, just to have the extra emergency space
The only other reasons I can think of why a drive would "lose" space is down to one of two things.

1) Bad sectors. Drives can develop bad sectors over time. It might be worth interrogating SMART to see how many bad sectors it reports. (If they're SMART complient that is!)

2) File system differences. File systems like NTFS take up more space on the disk, so you are left with less usable space afterwards. Of course, this wouldn't change with age.
__________________
Any views, thoughts and opinions are entirely my own. They don't necessarily represent those of my employer (BlackBerry).
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 28th October, 2002, 10:25 PM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

They are all Maxtor drives. I spose I'll try the Maxtor software that comes with it. I tried Partition Magic to format the drives, both physical and logical and still came up short. Got a good proggy for writing zeros you can tell me about? It's more of a mini mission for me this week. To format all my drives and reinstall winders on 1 and linux on another (separate systems).
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 29th October, 2002, 02:46 AM
mookydooky's Avatar
AOA Staff
 
Join Date: December 2001
Location: Everywhere you want to be.
Posts: 7,903
Send a message via MSN to mookydooky

Hmmm...maybe hard drive shrinkage works like George Costanza's cold water shrinkage. Perhaps you just need to heat things up a bit.
__________________
Need a laugh? Take a peek at
AOA's Mookydooky's "Just for laughs!" Joke Topic


AOA Team fah

我喜欢大屁股, 我不能骗你..... 他们弟兄不能否认......
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 29th October, 2002, 03:11 AM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

It's overclocked
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 29th October, 2002, 06:30 AM
Uncle Bob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: April 2002
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 3,734

Quote:
Originally posted by unclemojo
Got a good proggy for writing zeros you can tell me about?
Try Norton WipeInfo or Norton Wipe Slack Space. Both are part of SystemWorks, I believe.
__________________
Main Rig: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 1.0) cooled by the Monster Water Cooling Setup
HTPC One BIG Case Asus 8 CORE Monster
Current PC Count:
ASROCK: 1 * BIOSTAR: 1 * ASUS: 5 * CHAINTECH: 7 * GIGABYTE: 2 *IWILL: 1 * MSI: 3* TYAN: 2
175+ GHZ total power for PC Perspective Killer Frogs Climate Prediction Team as The Uncle B's!!
and more coming all the time!

I'm the Uncle your Aunt won't talk about. Go ahead and pull my finger!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 29th October, 2002, 01:58 PM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

I'll give that a whirl UB. I'm not real fond of Norton but I'm willing to give almost anything a go just to see what happens
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 29th October, 2002, 03:43 PM
Uncle Bob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: April 2002
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 3,734

More info on WipeInfo
Screen Shots (Use Government Wipe)

OK, if you hate Norton, try Shiva, Destroyer of Files 3.03. I've never used it, but it sounds like my last wife and my finances just as we got divorced! LOL
__________________
Main Rig: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 1.0) cooled by the Monster Water Cooling Setup
HTPC One BIG Case Asus 8 CORE Monster
Current PC Count:
ASROCK: 1 * BIOSTAR: 1 * ASUS: 5 * CHAINTECH: 7 * GIGABYTE: 2 *IWILL: 1 * MSI: 3* TYAN: 2
175+ GHZ total power for PC Perspective Killer Frogs Climate Prediction Team as The Uncle B's!!
and more coming all the time!

I'm the Uncle your Aunt won't talk about. Go ahead and pull my finger!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 29th October, 2002, 09:34 PM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob
OK, if you hate Norton, try Shiva, Destroyer of Files 3.03. I've never used it, but it sounds like my last wife and my finances just as we got divorced! LOL
I had a wife like that once........ once ........ I'll give them all a try UB. Thanks for the info I'm not a Norton hater, I just find their software too bloated (kinda like winders). Shiva might do the job though.

Strangest thing though is even when I did a logical format then a physical format, I'm still missing storage space. I tend to believe AidanII's info though. He must have hardware of the brain or something, cuz he's got sooo much info on sooo much:-D
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 29th October, 2002, 11:17 PM
SteveI's Avatar
AOA Staff
Tetris Champion
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,971

Quote:
Originally posted by unclemojo
... I tend to believe AidanII's info though. He must have hardware of the brain or something, cuz he's got sooo much info on sooo much:-D
no disagreement here. After reading Aidan's post(like 3 times), I calc'd the numbers and it works out to like 37+ gigs. My 40gig maxtor reads that way... and my 41 gig IBM has like 38gigs. The bigger the drive, the more I feel like I'm losing.

HDD makers have been pulling this 'gimmick' for years now.
__________________
AOA Team fah
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 30th October, 2002, 02:56 AM
cloasters's Avatar
Asst. BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 21,956

While we're on this subject: Is it true that the listed capacity of SCSI drives is after formatting? I'm curious about this. TIA.

Which raises the subject of: Not only the discrepency in 1000 vs. 1024, but formatting itself steals some of a drives "raw" capacity, I think.
__________________
When the world will be better.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 30th October, 2002, 03:21 AM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

Quote:
Originally posted by cloasters
While we're on this subject: Is it true that the listed capacity of SCSI drives is after formatting? I'm curious about this. TIA.
Cloasters.... thank you for your hidden spot of brilliance. "after formatting" ... This is listed on every single HD I've ever purchased and is the elusive answer I've been searching for these past few days. I was talking with a friend of mine earlier today and we gathered a sensus so to speak and everyone has had the very same mysterious thing happen to their drive...they lost space and can't reclaim it.

I've already downloaded several 'drive cleaners' and am beginning to mercilessly punish my D drive with them, but am now fairly certain that I will gain at the most, 500mb of space back. Not that I'm happy with losing it, but that I'm satisfied that at least I know where the hell it went...
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 30th October, 2002, 03:46 AM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

Uncle Bob... when you do the govornment wipe, it sets the hex value to AA by default. I thought it was best to write zeros?
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 30th October, 2002, 04:02 AM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

ha~! feeling brave, I opted for the 00 hex value and started to wipe the drive. Removed all the Recycler files that tried to set up camp too. I don't show system or hidden files on the D drive because I hated seeing that and the dang System Information dealio folder. Wipe didn't pick up on that folder, but who cares at this point I suppose. It's running a 3 pass wipe set to run 3 times, so if there's any crap left on there, it should be gone once its done

*edit*
Finished the govt wipe pretty fast. Failed to wipe the folders. Oddly enough, this is a 20g drive I just formatted for my linux box. It shows 28.6 total, 27.1 free. This is a freshly formatted drive. Wonder where THAT space is.

<scratches head>
am I seeing things as they normally are or am I on some crazy hard drive thing this week?
__________________
~mojo~

Last edited by unclemojo; 30th October, 2002 at 04:07 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 30th October, 2002, 04:25 AM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

ok...I've decided not to mess with the drive any more tonight. Not sure what I've managed to do, but I get 'can't format' message every time I try to format now. THe drive is fine. It accepts as well as gets rid of data, and it even agrees with an attempted install of a linux distro, so I know it's fine. After shutting all processes down, I still get this same message
Attached Thumbnails
Hard drive shrinkage-noformat.jpg  
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 30th October, 2002, 04:57 AM
Uncle Bob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: April 2002
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 3,734

Are you using XP?
__________________
Main Rig: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 1.0) cooled by the Monster Water Cooling Setup
HTPC One BIG Case Asus 8 CORE Monster
Current PC Count:
ASROCK: 1 * BIOSTAR: 1 * ASUS: 5 * CHAINTECH: 7 * GIGABYTE: 2 *IWILL: 1 * MSI: 3* TYAN: 2
175+ GHZ total power for PC Perspective Killer Frogs Climate Prediction Team as The Uncle B's!!
and more coming all the time!

I'm the Uncle your Aunt won't talk about. Go ahead and pull my finger!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 30th October, 2002, 05:01 AM
unclemojo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: mojoland
Posts: 572
Send a message via ICQ to unclemojo

indeed I am. I haven't run across an error like this yet. I'm stumped at the moment I uninstalled Norton and any other cleaners I had and still get the message. odd and disturbing, but not life threatening
__________________
~mojo~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 30th October, 2002, 05:03 AM
Uncle Bob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: April 2002
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 3,734

Cannot format drive while it's being written to from Norton knowledge base. You may have better luck doing this in pure DOS. Do you have a WIN 98 Boot disk? Herer is a link to them if you don't the Win 98SE has Format on it.
Yes, I always used 0's on Gpv't wipe.
__________________
Main Rig: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 1.0) cooled by the Monster Water Cooling Setup
HTPC One BIG Case Asus 8 CORE Monster
Current PC Count:
ASROCK: 1 * BIOSTAR: 1 * ASUS: 5 * CHAINTECH: 7 * GIGABYTE: 2 *IWILL: 1 * MSI: 3* TYAN: 2
175+ GHZ total power for PC Perspective Killer Frogs Climate Prediction Team as The Uncle B's!!
and more coming all the time!

I'm the Uncle your Aunt won't talk about. Go ahead and pull my finger!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


« IBM Stuff | Raid »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hard Drive in another PC aghastpumpkin General Hardware Discussion 11 21st August, 2005 04:00 PM
OC a hard drive? calgar General Hardware Discussion 4 19th July, 2005 03:03 PM
Cd Drive Hard Drive Cage amarkarian Case Modifications 4 9th July, 2005 04:15 PM
ghosted drive and a new hard drive RangerJoe General Hardware Discussion 3 10th August, 2003 08:47 PM
Where is my Hard drive? AtomicMatter CRASHED! 13 4th June, 2003 12:22 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:41 PM.


Copyright ©2001 - 2010, AOA Forums
Don't Click Here Don't Click Here Either

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0