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General Hardware Discussion Hard drives, CD, DVD Monitors, All hardware questions not better served by our other Topics


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 24th April, 2004, 04:27 PM
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CD-R disks failing after just 2 years in storage.

Do you have important photos, etc. on CD-R?

Apparently, there is not much chance of data stored on CD-R lasting more than a couple of years - sometimes a lot less!

Magnetic tape is still the best medium for back-ups.

See this article:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=513486
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Old 24th April, 2004, 07:09 PM
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What? They lied to us? These guys just don't HAVE a long view!
It's get in grab a Golden parachute and get out at the top. They could care less about long term customers!!
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Old 24th April, 2004, 07:26 PM
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Trouble is we the consumer are easily led. They tell us how great the latest media format is. Then they bring out something new and tell us their previous product was crap and that all our videos, music, etc. should be on the new format. It's not long ago that we were buying LP vinyl records.

That article says that CD-RWs are much more reliable - do we believe this or not? lol
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Old 24th April, 2004, 07:28 PM
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I use the RW's, so of course I'm a believer!! LOL
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Old 24th April, 2004, 07:30 PM
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You can actually buy archival CD-R disks that are more expensive, but should result in longer life. After all, if you buy from the lowest cost provider, something's got to give!
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Old 24th April, 2004, 07:31 PM
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If you read the article, it suggests that you may in fact get the storage period claimed, provided you take proper care of the CD. For example, don't leave it laying in the sun or bright light, don't expose it to extremes in temp, etc.

Seems to me that complaining that CD-Rs don't keep their data for extended periods is rather like claiming that tapes are worthless for storing data. If you take care of them, they will do what they are designed to do. If you don't......well, nothing lasts forever, and things that are abused last rather less long that things that are taken care of.
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Old 24th April, 2004, 09:16 PM
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I stopped using cheap disks a long time ago.
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Old 27th April, 2004, 04:38 PM
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i didn't read the linked article, but i can tell you that there is definately a reason you pay more for some disks....most cd's are supposed to haev a shelf life of 5 years.. which ain't all that long if you ask me....i have had disks last only a few months, but ifound that if you stand then upright and in the dark they last longer. if you want to preserve unburnt ones..stick em in the freezer, but wait for them to heat to room temp and make sure there is no condensation for burning...taking these steps has made my disks last longer...i burn copies of every cd i buy (and dvd) and put the originals in the feezer.. that way i ruin the cheap copies, and cam burn a new one when i need it.
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Old 27th April, 2004, 05:47 PM
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I have left a box of cheap disks sitting on a shelf for a few months only to find that 50% of the capacity had been 'lost'. CD-Rs are very useful for some purposes, but of little use for archiving and backing-up data. Having said that if you want something to really last you would have to carve it in to a solid gold plate!
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Old 27th April, 2004, 06:12 PM
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Anyone know if DVD's suffer the same limitations in terms of life span?
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Old 27th April, 2004, 06:33 PM
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yes. dvd's have the same shelf life.
most OEM's actually expect the laser"eye" in our drives to wear out before the disks, but that remains to be seen.
i personally have found that dvd's are much higher quality...
the best way i have found is to sacrafice a disc, and try scratching the shiny label side(were the data is actually stored). the thicker the material the better the disc...no 2 ways about it.
danrok... was there sunlight in that room? i bet u there was. that's why there are outside labels to a case when u buy it...sunlight id a disc's most evil enemy. Anyone who's left a cd on thier dash know what i am talking about, as well, if you think about it, the discs are burnt by light..a laser is just light filtered to a specific wavelength.. sunlight has the same wavelength in an unpure form and will "burn" discs, rendering them useless. always grab from the back of the shelf!
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Old 27th April, 2004, 06:46 PM
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My room has a wide window and is south facing, but curtains are always drawn in summer and the disks were in a box. Having said that they could have been exposed to the sun for all I know.

BTW, Daniel we are only refering to burnable media here not factory made original disks. I mean a movie on DVD which you have bought in a shop should last many years. I'm sure you realise this - I don't want people to think that DVDs they have paid a lot of money for are going to be blank before long!

Another, problem I have had with CD-Rs is that one shattered in my car head unit. Luckily I was able to get the two halves out without taking my car apart. As you say, cadaveca, the thicker the better.
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Old 27th April, 2004, 06:49 PM
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I should have stipulated DVD R- RW, sorry.
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Old 27th April, 2004, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danrok

BTW, Daniel we are only refering to burnable media here not factory made original disks. I mean a movie on DVD which you have bought in a shop should last many years. I'm sure you realise this - I don't want people to think that DVDs they have paid a lot of money for are going to be blank before long!

Another, problem I have had with CD-Rs is that one shattered in my car head unit. Luckily I was able to get the two halves out without taking my car apart. As you say, cadaveca, the thicker the better.
btw, in case you didn't know..a standard cd-rom has a life expectancy of 7 years(retail) and a store bought dvd is 5. If you read sound and vision you would have heard about this about 6 months ago, when bluray made a major outcoming @ CES(bluray discs are expected to have a 15 year lifespan)
when i was talking about thinkness, i was merely referring to the substrate that is laminated on the top of the disc, which most people refer to as the label. all info is actually stored on the "label" the thicker the "label" the harder it is for light raditaion to impact, and hence a longer lasting disc....when u get a disc stuck in a car drive, simply remove the faceplate and look for a pin-sized hole.. this is the manual eject that all disc drives have... if that were to not work, removing the deck and removing the top cover and about (usually) 6 screws and you can pull any disc out(even in changers) and give it a good cleaning. we all know about electronics and dust, and how dusty is yuor car?lol. i used to install car stereos, and discs stuck in the deck yould cast 150 bucks and take me 5 mins!
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Old 27th April, 2004, 07:43 PM
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If my bought DVD movies become unreadble in the next year or two I will be extremely unhappy! Do you think this will really happen? Surely someone is going to have millions of unhappy customers if it does.
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Old 27th April, 2004, 07:56 PM
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No Kidding!! I'm not a collector, I rent DVD's online. But like everyone else I've run into one or two. I talked to a guy in a store that was REPLACING his entire 600 VCR movie collection with DVD's to save space. I sure hope he's storing the VCR tapes somewhere safe.

OK, look into your Crystal balls. How far are we from a PERMANENT (100+years) Data- Movie- Music- storage solution and what Will it look like?
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Old 27th April, 2004, 08:11 PM
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I understand that VCR tapes are good for 15 years or so (if stored and never played). After this you will open the box and a small pile of brown powder will form at your feet leaving a clear tape inside the cassette.

My cynical cyrstal ball is telling that the media giants don't want us to have a permanent storage system.

I believe all legal evidence is generally stored on permanent media, i.e. microfiche and traditional photo negatives. These are very high resolution and we know that film can last over 100 years.

There must be a multitude of ways in which a huge amount of data can be permanently stored on a tiny object assuming you have the equipment to do this.
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Old 27th April, 2004, 09:49 PM
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I believe the technology exists today to make 'permanent' (> 100 year life span) storage relatively cheaply. The first CD media were in fact aluminum discs with small pits in them, covered with a protective plastic shell, IIRC. There was some experiementation with using a laser to write to these discs, also. The problem is that the people who make money selling this stuff don't want us to have 'permanent' storage in the mass market, IMHO.
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Old 27th April, 2004, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danrok
I understand that VCR tapes are good for 15 years or so (if stored and never played). After this you will open the box and a small pile of brown powder will form at your feet leaving a clear tape inside the cassette.

My cynical cyrstal ball is telling that the media giants don't want us to have a permanent storage system.

I believe all legal evidence is generally stored on permanent media, i.e. microfiche and traditional photo negatives. These are very high resolution and we know that film can last over 100 years.

There must be a multitude of ways in which a huge amount of data can be permanently stored on a tiny object assuming you have the equipment to do this.
about vhs...7-11 years with normal use providing the are stored in a vertical position out of direct sunlight, away from magnets,etc... and yes they last longer than discs, and that was why d-vhs has surfaced, partly.
the reason why?
planned obselecence...if it breaks you gotta buy a new one. Used by almost every manufacturer out there...they could make a tv that lasted forever..yet do they? why, when they can soak you for another $2000 in 10-15 years?
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Old 28th April, 2004, 06:47 AM
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Do you know what the big difference between a 1X CD-R and a 52X CD-R is? It's the photosensitive chemical that does the actual burning. In wanting the stuff to burn faster and faster, manufacturers are making the CD-R more and more sensitive to light. This is obviously in response to consumer and competitive pressure, but there is no "new" technology involved in making CD-R's. It's the same as it was when it was first introduced, but the blanks are becoming supersensitive to not only light, but variations in temperature and other environmental factors.

You have to like the possibility for Blu-Ray. It's in an enclosed cartridge similar to minidisk. Hopefully, that will help reduce deterioration from environmental factors. You also have to respect anything that can hold over 16GB in on a small recordable disk. If I remember correctly, I think there are other ways to expand it, similar to DVD, to give it storage capacity of something in the 50GB area.
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