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General Hardware Discussion Hard drives, CD, DVD Monitors, All hardware questions not better served by our other Topics


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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 16th September, 2004, 07:35 PM
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router's don't have a real OS, like in the way Windows or linux or OSX is an operating system, AFAIK, it nothing more than a bare kernel. there's nothing there for any real interaction with other devices, and most routers themselves are routers AND switches, or router's and HUBs. this way, the packet gets redirected and the destination IP/MAC address gets changed to the originating machine rather than the router before the packet hits the switch/hub and being sent down the cable to the requesting machine. Most router's have this built in in order for them to maintain an active connection...you can make the WAN side dynamic or static, as well as the LAN side.
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Old 16th September, 2004, 07:37 PM
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Just one additional note.

You'll frequently encounter the term 'Proxy Server'. Many people use the term 'Proxy Server' and 'firewall' interchangeably. They are NOT the same. A proxy server performs many of the same functions as a firewall, as far as statefull packet inspection and such like. However with a true proxy server, a computer on a protected network does not connect to the outside world directly. It connects to the proxy server, and the proxy server then 'proxies' the request (i.e. the proxy server makes the request on behalf of the client). When the result comes back, the proxy sends that information back to the PC that requested it to start with. A key point here is that the computer (or more typically the User AT the computer) has to LOG ON to the proxy server before ANY communication takes place with the outside world. In most cases, you also have to run a client of some kind on the computer in question, which redirects all requests to anywhere other than the local network so that they go to the proxy server.

Because of these requirements, proxy servers tend to be a pain in the tush for users, but they allow network admins a fine degree of control over what users have access to the Internet, where they can go, and what kind of content they can download. They also typically require large amounts of memory, storage, and CPU, because they can do things like cache frequently requested web sites and things of that nature. A drawback to Proxy servers is that they can only proxy protocols that they understand. For example, a proxy might be set up to handle HTTP and FTP, and maybe even HTTPS, but might fail utterly on a proprietary home-grown protocol based on TCP that is used by a software vendor. (Ask me how I know that. )
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 17th September, 2004, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
router's don't have a real OS, like in the way Windows or linux or OSX is an operating system, AFAIK, it nothing more than a bare kernel. there's nothing there for any real interaction with other devices.
VxWorks is definately a real OS, like the way that Windows, Linux or OS X is an operating system. It can handle features like graphical interfaces, Java, POSIX, multiprocessing as well as virtual memory. Additionally, many of the "routers" include things such as uPnP support, a webserver for configuration, cryptographic services for IPSec/IKE and often other ports for debugging purposes. Running services like that requires more than just a bare kernel to operate.
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Old 17th September, 2004, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo
For example, a proxy might be set up to handle HTTP and FTP, and maybe even HTTPS, but might fail utterly on a proprietary home-grown protocol based on TCP that is used by a software vendor.
Wrap it in HTTP or SSL! That's what everyone else is doing these days!
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Old 17th September, 2004, 03:12 PM
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That's what we ended up doing; we wrapped the transport protocol in HTTP. It added a bit of overhead, but at least we could get throught the proxy servers then.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 17th September, 2004, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
VxWorks is definately a real OS, like the way that Windows, Linux or OS X is an operating system. It can handle features like graphical interfaces, Java, POSIX, multiprocessing as well as virtual memory. Additionally, many of the "routers" include things such as uPnP support, a webserver for configuration, cryptographic services for IPSec/IKE and often other ports for debugging purposes. Running services like that requires more than just a bare kernel to operate.


thanks for the link... i really had no idea...but it seems quite silly to me to have all those open doors that can be exploited. i knew that there was some sort of OS for routers, as network storage devices have to work off of something....seems not much different than having a software firewall...
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Old 17th September, 2004, 08:14 PM
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Depends. A dedicated hardware firewall has an OS, true, but the developers have been able to 'tune' that OS to their particular application by including the components they need and removing the ones they do not. In addition, with embeded operating systems like VXWorks, they are also able to work very closely with the OS vendor to make the OS behave the way they want it to. The same is not true when you have a software firewall running on top of a general purpose proprietary OS like Windows.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 17th September, 2004, 08:50 PM
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God I wish my mind was better at retention. I've paid to little attention in my life to facts, once I understood the "meaning" behind them.

But in hardware the facts continue to be relevant even when the meaning is understood. You guys are a great education, I wish you better pupils! ":O}
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 17th September, 2004, 09:14 PM
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You must be an ideas over facts person then
So I'd guess either your a Counsellor or Idealist personality, probabally idealist
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Old 21st September, 2004, 03:17 PM
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Did a bit of reading on openbsd because I head it's rock solid for security. not ready to go with it yet but I've got another old system I can experiment on to see it will do.
Any one confused by the whole open/free/net bsd thing should read this:

http://www.daemonnews.org/200104/bsd_family.html

outlines the differances between them
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