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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12th September, 2005, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
Except, of course, that quantum bits, or qubits, can signify 2 to the 2500 power normal bits becasue of the behavior of photons. Unlike a standard bit, that only travels down one path, a photon has been shown to travel MANY paths.

this is why solidstate memory is nessecary, as you use the qubit to program the memory immediately. the only "quantum" part of the pc is the processor.
Firstly, photons only have a spin state aligned with their direction of travel, either forwards or backwards. When they interact with matter, there's also the possibility of the photon imparting it's angular momentum in one of two states. Hence, a photon can only handle four states, not 2^2500 states. Other particles are much more effective carriers of information, as they are not inhibited by c.

Secondly, any form direct measurements of the qubits will cause decoherence totally wrecking any data that was stored on in their states. So far, NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) has proved to be a good way to read the data back, but requiring superconducting magnets and a suitable liquid nitrogen supply has limited it to the lab. Quantum electrodynamics (QED) shows good potential except that each qubit causes interference with other nearby qubits, limiting it to a handful of qubits at most.

As far as photon superposition goes, we already know that the photons are quite limited in their ability to store information. Sure they can travel multiple paths (as long as the path lengths are identical IIRC), but limitations on that make it unlikely to be much use for quantum computing.

Additionally, quantum computing is not really well suited to classical computing. It is, however, extremely good at tasks like factorising, which is something that clasical computing is not good at.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 12th September, 2005, 11:07 PM
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i simply said it could signify 2x2500 power bits, not those many states. those 4 states, as well as multiple paths , allow for the higher POSSIBLE info tranmitted.

However, i digress, you are entirely right in that it does not suit traditional computing. RSA code-beaking maybe...but not the x86 platform, i do not think.



I'n not trying to say that atomchip has a working unit...but they may. They HAVE registered for CES, and the HAVE shown in past years, so i think it feasible to say they are looking for investors.

However, my whole point is that quantum computing is not a thing of myth, like this laptop may be. it's real, and should be the wave of the future.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 12:04 AM
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It does, however, work on very different principles to a digital computer. My understanding of quantum computing is not in its actual ability to "compute", but in its inherent ability to cope with probabilities: something very hard for a digital computer.

In a conventional computer, you have at each gate a 0 and a 1. In a quantum computer, you have either a 0, or a 1, or one of two possible "maybes". You don't know what you have until you collapse the state vector, by looking for an answer. Now the two possible maybes give no answer, but do affect the answer you get from adjacent gates.

The idea is that quantum computing is supposed to be able to make "logical leaps" in the same way the human brain is. The downside is that this computer could also very well get it wrong, argue that black is white or that Elvis lives...
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 12:25 AM
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as long as it resembles a turing machine it can compute. Error correction is the biggest problem tho, however what i have read as of late on the subject has me very confident that there is far more than what meets the eye to quantum computing.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
i simply said it could signify 2x2500 power bits, not those many states. those 4 states, as well as multiple paths , allow for the higher POSSIBLE info tranmitted.
Qubits are pretty much fixed in a location, as coming in contact with other matter destroys state, and the data is encoded in the state of particle. Moving that particle from A to B causes all sorts of issues, as does attempting to directly measure anything about that particle.

Transmitting information requires states. If you only have four states, then you can only transmit two bits of information in that channel. Superposition doesn't allow you to transmit more information, as the particles have the same characteristics. Sure, your particle will travel multiple paths (if they're identical), but will only be carrying the same information, so is part of the same channel. It doesn't allow you to transmit more information. Hence, you're still stuck with the same four states, no matter how many paths the photon takes, as it's the same photon on all paths. (See Shannon for more about information theory)

Photons are limited in the amount of information they can carry due to the fact that they travel at the speed of light. Other particles are not limited to two spin states, as they travel more slowly. Interaction with any other matter will also lead to decoherence and the loss of any information encoded.

Sure, the memory uses interaction between quantum optical and magnetic effects in order to effect storage and retreival, but that's not quantum computing.

Thus, so far we have determined that a) they're not using quantum computing, no matter how hard they claim to be; and b) they're using a mixture of magnetic and quantum optical in order to store data in some form of crystal lattice. My understanding of this is that it allows the effect of a magnetic domain (IE, little bit of iron) to affect the optical properties of the material. So, instead of reading the data back using a magnetic head, a la hard disk, they read back the state optically using a laser.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
as long as it resembles a turing machine it can compute. Error correction is the biggest problem tho, however what i have read as of late on the subject has me very confident that there is far more than what meets the eye to quantum computing.
I'm not sure that they do resemble a Turing machine. A Turing machine is one that follows a well defined process that could be an infinite number of steps made up of a finite set of symbols. Quantum computing allows for an infinite number of symbols, and doesn't have a well defined process, as it's based on probabilities, not discreet logical operations. Loosely translated, the quantum computer considers all possibilities simultaniously, and incorrect possibilities cancel each other out. The results that are left are the correct possibilities (and any noise).
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitain
In a conventional computer, you have at each gate a 0 and a 1. In a quantum computer, you have either a 0, or a 1, or one of two possible "maybes".
The number of maybes depends on how well you can 'measure' the state of the bits. Of course, you then run into Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, making it difficult to encode any information.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
The number of maybes depends on how well you can 'measure' the state of the bits. Of course, you then run into Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, making it difficult to encode any information.
There are some fairly entertaining quantum effects associated with this. Until you collapse the state vector, if you ask which of the "maybes" is true, the correct answer is "all of them". Schrödinger's cat was dead AND alive, until you opened the box and collapsed the vector.

Unlike Schrödinger's cat, whose fate was determined by feline biology in the presence of phosgene, the outcome of a quantum "calculation" is affected both by the act of being observed and by the number of observers. This causes a few problems when trying to build a quantum device - you need as many observers as there are probable outcomes in order to see the outcome. Otherwise you will always see the answer you expect to see, not the answer that is. Confusing?
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 10:50 AM
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Not confusing, just par for the course in the quantum world. How macro do quantum effects get? After all, we don't appear to suffer multiple outcomes, so there must be a point at which classical physics takes over. So, what would actually happen with Shrödinger's cat?
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 11:03 AM
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If the atomic force microscope I played with at university is anything to go by, quantum effects occur up to about 10 microns.

For those that haven't come across these, an atomic microscope is a device in which a very small, very sharp bit of diamond with a point approximately 1 micron diameter is put on the end of a flexible armature. This needle is dragged near to, but not quite touching the surface of the material. Due to an effect called "quantum tunnelling", the surface of the material will tend to keep the needle at a constant distance above, subtly repelling it if it gets too close and attracting it if it gets too distant. In this way, a very accurate surface can can be formed, with a lot less equipment than SEM. Resolution is down to 2 microns.

As for the cat, first you have to assume you have an ideally passive cat, that will not panic at being shoved into a box and attempt to flay its handler. In this instance, the handler's dislike of the cat may cause him to leave the cat in the box for long enough to ensure the cat's demise.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 01:28 PM
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Last time I checked, most cats were a bit larger than 10 microns...
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2005, 01:47 PM
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But as an engineer, I reserve the right to model a cow as a uniform sphere and thus a cat as an "ideal cat" at any size I wish
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 16th September, 2005, 10:38 PM
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if it was true MS or intel would own the comapny by now. and you never know though...
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 16th September, 2005, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
Qubits are pretty much fixed in a location, as coming in contact with other matter destroys state, and the data is encoded in the state of particle. Moving that particle from A to B causes all sorts of issues, as does attempting to directly measure anything about that particle.

Transmitting information requires states. If you only have four states, then you can only transmit two bits of information in that channel. Superposition doesn't allow you to transmit more information, as the particles have the same characteristics. Sure, your particle will travel multiple paths (if they're identical), but will only be carrying the same information, so is part of the same channel. It doesn't allow you to transmit more information. Hence, you're still stuck with the same four states, no matter how many paths the photon takes, as it's the same photon on all paths. (See Shannon for more about information theory)

Photons are limited in the amount of information they can carry due to the fact that they travel at the speed of light. Other particles are not limited to two spin states, as they travel more slowly. Interaction with any other matter will also lead to decoherence and the loss of any information encoded.
Entanglement, my dear Aedan, entanglement. You are not firguring in entanglement.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 17th September, 2005, 03:52 AM
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http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...&RS=PN/5841689
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 17th September, 2005, 09:02 AM
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The link that motivator has posted makes excellent sense.Quantum-Optical could mean that the data read from a cell would be identified from its Quantum state properties.Similar to polarizing light.You could have a write mechanism that works using a magnetic device to change the quantum state (spin state)maybe of a cell.Then hitting the cell with a photon/laser and then looking at the resukting light/photons might allow us to infer about the data in the cell. Even if this process is destructive ,the data gained can be written back for another read as soon as it is read the first time.
Quantum Computing is a totally different ballgame and i believe is totally removed from what this company might be doing.
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Old 17th September, 2005, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
Entanglement, my dear Aedan, entanglement. You are not figuring in entanglement.
With all due respect, how does entanglement help? For entanglement to work, you have to produce multiple particles in the first place.
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Old 17th September, 2005, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripo
The link that motivator has posted makes excellent sense.Quantum-Optical could mean that the data read from a cell would be identified from its Quantum state properties.
Yes, there are a number of companies who have been working hard on such memory. I believe that Atom chip probably have a working magnetic quantum-optical memory at least in the lab. My suspicion is that they're simply trying to get some (more?) VC in order to bring it out into the real world.
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Old 17th September, 2005, 09:58 AM
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But the whole discussion moved away from storage to quantum computing..I
expect this to be the holographic memory that we've been told to expect .And you can always tag the word quantum to Photon. We will have to wait and see
,if it truly comes out,the extent to which it uses Quantum effects .
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 17th September, 2005, 11:58 AM
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With all due respect, you lot don't talk in a way that makes sense to dumbasses like myself. But I'm really fascinated so somebody help me out a bit?
I understand the "maybes" bit, but the rest has lost me.
What are the main differences between this, and a conventional computer system?
Does the processor have "cores"? FSB? Hyper Transport?
How is memory handled?
Why did they build it as a laptop? Surely a full sized PC tower makes much more sense.
If this system uses photons, would traditional cabling be replaced by Fibre Optics? Would the circuitry have fibre optics inside instead of lead?
Can anyone talk in "Plain English", i.e like the bods at Computer Active?
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