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Old 28th April, 2006, 03:45 PM
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Lightbulb PC Memory vs Console Memory : What's the BIG DEAL anyway?

Okay, it always confuses me, the mmory factor of PC and console. I mean, PC most of the times have so damn much more memory than console, and im talking about 8 to 16 times in many cases! But how come games on consoles still work with same texture maps and so on, if not better? (** Am I Wrong? I'll be happy if I am).

I know, PC has a huge OS overhead, but just how big is it?? Most of here, have 2048MB of RAM.... compare that to X360's only 512 or PS3's JUST 256mb !!! + The Video Memory of at least 256MB on our video cards... Consoles just have all that memory to deal with everything on game... how do they work it out? and both X360 and PS3 also has OS ovreaheads.. may be less than PC still, and dont forget, the memory of console is also shared for audio and pretty much any other work. Even if PS3 has XDR memory, but how fast memory is, should be a later issue, first how much do they have! How can they load all the PC does?
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Old 28th April, 2006, 04:15 PM
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Firstly, a console doesn't have all the other processes running at the same time. Nor do they have to worry about driver models, as the core hardware is always the same.

They simply don't need to load all that the PC does!
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Old 28th April, 2006, 04:27 PM
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In addition to what Áedán said, bear in mind that PC applications are almost always written in a high-level language like 'C', even video games. While it is true that a PC video game will include some assembly language in time-critical sections, consoles use far more assembly language than PCs, because of the memory footprint factor.
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Old 28th April, 2006, 04:32 PM
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just to load all that it needs so many times mroe the memory? besides i heard PS3 will have other OS processes running in the background, and it can also do multi tasking, like video chat and gameplay at the same time. besides, the X36 also has its own OS i think on which the game runs. just that the hardware chanegs from sys to sy in PCs, thats all wher the memory is eaten?
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Old 28th April, 2006, 04:44 PM
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I seem to remember that the version of Windows used on the original XBox could only handle a single window. The systems can handle multitasking, but you cannot put whatever you like on the system - the processes allowed to run are very limited.
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Old 29th April, 2006, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo
In addition to what Áedán said, bear in mind that PC applications are almost always written in a high-level language like 'C', even video games. While it is true that a PC video game will include some assembly language in time-critical sections, consoles use far more assembly language than PCs, because of the memory footprint factor.
Isn't C fast enough for a console? I thought it was the fastest (after assembly language offcourse ) and with the smallest mem footprint, but I may be wrong...because I don't have any clue regarding game programming.
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Old 30th April, 2006, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoinar
Isn't C fast enough for a console? I thought it was the fastest (after assembly language offcourse ) and with the smallest mem footprint, but I may be wrong...because I don't have any clue regarding game programming.
C is a pretty decent programming language, and gets closer to the hardware than most any other high-level language. However, I can still code a program that will run between 2 and 10 times faster in assembly than what I can write in C, and it will use about 1/4 of the memory. This is not so much the fault of C itself as it is of the all the libraries that almost all C linkers add into the mix. Those libraries make it possible for a competent programmer to develop an application in somewhere between 1/4 and 1/10 the amount of time it takes to write the equivalent application in assembly, but you pay a price for the shorter application development cycle; lower performance and increased memory bloat.
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Old 1st May, 2006, 04:52 AM
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So what you are saying is that all of this bloatware and the need for higher powered PC's is because programers have either gotten lazy or greedy. Doing more with less bu using a programing laungage that allows them to do less work at the cost of performance. But hey, that can be made up for by Intel and nVidia.

While on the other hand console programers do not have the luxery of telling people they need a better vidoe card to compensate for thier small pen.... I mean they need a better video card to compensate for thier lazyness?
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Old 1st May, 2006, 05:41 AM
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I'm sure it's not just the "laziness" of the assembly programmers, but the idea that their companies/clients don't want to pay them for the extra labor time needed.
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Old 1st May, 2006, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aztec61
I'm sure it's not just the "laziness" of the assembly programmers, but the idea that their companies/clients don't want to pay them for the extra labor time needed.
So that would fall under greed?
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Old 1st May, 2006, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staz
So that would fall under greed?
Hail yass it's greed. Who knows, but I wouldn't be surprised if that labor isn't outsourced to India for a measly $10./hr. or such.

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Old 1st May, 2006, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staz
So what you are saying is that all of this bloatware and the need for higher powered PC's is because programers have either gotten lazy or greedy. Doing more with less bu using a programing laungage that allows them to do less work at the cost of performance. But hey, that can be made up for by Intel and nVidia.

While on the other hand console programers do not have the luxery of telling people they need a better vidoe card to compensate for thier small pen.... I mean they need a better video card to compensate for thier lazyness?
Generally, it isn't the programmers per se. As with any engineering discipline, the engineer wants to build the best product possible, but budgetary constraints prevent doing so, and the engineer has to make trade-offs. In the current environment, time-to-market is everything; this means building the product and getting it out the door before anyone else does, in many cases even if it doesn't completely work as advertised. Very few engineers in any given company have the clout to be able to say "We shouldn't ship this product as it is" and actually keep their jobs, particularly if some ambitious product manager has set a deadline that is not going to be met as a result.
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Old 2nd May, 2006, 12:16 AM
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I understand exactly what you are saying Gizmo. My point is that some big whig over at EA or Vivendi is more concerned with making money than making a good product.

Use advertising to make up for other short commings then partner with one hardware camp or another and tell people that if they really want to play the game the way it was meant to be played they have use the latest and greatest product from nVida or ATi.
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Old 2nd May, 2006, 03:55 AM
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From what I've seen on other forums, the recently released Oblivion is fairly buggy. IMO, it looks very much like it was a rushed title, so now comes the wait for the patches.

That's greed, not good programming.
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