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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2008, 04:47 PM
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I would have thought that the higher data transfer rate on Blu-ray, compared to HD-DVD, would give greater scope, e.g. interactive features which don't impede movie/audio playback.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2008, 06:21 PM
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It's sure not looking good for HDDVD at the moment...
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2008, 06:09 AM
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Worst possible scenario is that everyone that owns an Toshiba HD-DVD player will just use it as an excellent upconverting DVD-Player.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2008, 06:19 PM
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So true! What can anyone do, you pays your money, you takes your chances...sigh...
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2008, 07:08 PM
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In any case, many HD players will be obsolete before too long, including Blu-ray players.

The PS3 is future proof, thanks to the upgradeable firmware.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2008, 07:13 PM
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Rather surprizing that having this tech Sony didn't make wider use of it?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel ~ View Post
Rather surprizing that having this tech Sony didn't make wider use of it?
Upgradeable firmware is nothing out of the ordinary.

There are standalone Blu-Ray players which are upgradeable, e.g. Samsung DMP-BD10. That's one expensive player at about $900.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2008, 07:31 PM
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Cheap at half the price...hey! We paid half the price! ":O}
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2008, 11:44 PM
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Firmware can be upgraded...However Hardware is the real problem...PS3 is futureproof but the Image Quality in Blu-Rays is perhaps the worse possible according to various Blu-Ray / PS3 reviews.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11th January, 2008, 12:42 AM
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I can't see how the image quality would be different on either format, both support the exact same video codecs.

Which are MPEG-2, Microsoft Video Codec 1, and H.264 / MPEG-4 AVC.

The video information should be exactly the same on either disc.

Take 2 random players, 1 of each type, and it's likely that one will look better than the other. But, I don't think that would be because of the format used.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11th January, 2008, 12:51 AM
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Thats where you are wrong. Hardware plays a Huge role in Video Quality.
Take the HD-DVD A1 and put it up against the newest HD-DVD EP10 and the best HD-DVD player out there the HD-DVD XA2. The quality varies in each system.
Same goes for the PS3 which has worse components than most standalone Blu-Ray players out there. However noone really expected to get an Playstation 3 game machine with a Blu-Ray at a price lower than most Blu-Ray players and be on par with them. That would be next to impossible. Its just an Entry-Level Blu-Ray player for people that dont care a lot about having the best machine and thats that.

PS : OFFICIAL UNIVERSAL RESPONCE
"Contrary to unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources, Universal's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment and also co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group.The response would have come sooner, but many HD DVD executives were on flights home from CES when the story from Variety broke.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11th January, 2008, 03:46 PM
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The HD-DVD/Blu-ray format doesn't determine the output quality, as Danrok has pointed out. It simply defines the feature set and transport mechanism. The final output quality is down to the decoder, scaler (if used) and output components.

Therefore, to claim that HD-DVD is 'better' than Blu-ray, or Blu-ray is 'better' than HD-DVD rather ignores the fact that it's nothing to do with the format, and all to do with design and manufacturing tolerences.

As far as PS3 goes - it would be worth defining "worse components", especially as we're in a world of digital bitstreams, rather than partially definable analog values.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11th January, 2008, 10:24 PM
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I cant really spot the components that are inferior in quality but from my knowledge each Blu-Ray and HD-DVD device use different chips/decoders and different quality of external connectors ( metal/gold ). Even the power system of an device such as DVD-Players or HD-DVD, Blu-Ray players and its capacitors play a big role in the final image produced.
Personally i have seen the Samsung BDP1400 and the SHARP BD20U side by side with an PS3 playing on 3 Different ( same model ) PHILIPS 42PFL9900D/10 AUREA Screens and Sharp's Blu-Ray produced the best image with the Samsung following and the PS3 finishing last. Standalone Blu_Ray players have smoother movement and sharper image than the PS3.
You can also check many reviews around the net for the PS3 vs Blu-Ray players and you will see what i mean. The PS3 is an Game Console and as a Bonus ( And marketing trick to promote Blu-Ray ) SONY placed a cheap , limited-options Blu-Ray player for people who wouldnt spend 600$ for a standalone Blu-Ray player.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12th January, 2008, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
The PS3 is an Game Console and as a Bonus ( And marketing trick to promote Blu-Ray ) SONY placed a cheap , limited-options Blu-Ray player for people who wouldnt spend 600$ for a standalone Blu-Ray player.
This is just simply completely wrong and a bit backwards. Sony used the PS3 to penetrate the Hi Def market, it would make no sense to do so with an inferior product. Well we did have the red ring of death..no wait, that was someone else..

As for reviews, Sony gets reviews written, MS gets reviews written... I have yet to read that either picture is to be preferred to the other. This is a format war, not a code war as has been pointed out.

As far as piture is conserned it doesn't matter if I'm downloading from Comcast or getting the same data off a BR disk, code is code is code. BTW sorry your perferd format lost...Glad to see you've taken it with grace.":O}
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12th January, 2008, 01:32 AM
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The PS3 is relatively low-priced, because Sony sells them for less than it costs to make. Not because they are cheaply made!

They make the profit on licencing fees, not sales of consoles.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 12th January, 2008, 01:49 AM
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Like i said its not only the price. Ive seen it work next to others and i wasnt the only one there who said that it had the worse movement and sharpness. And noone said they are cheaply made. Its one thing to use basic Blu-Ray equipment and another to use the High-End ones.

TREX i didnt say i have seen a review that places HD-DVD above Blu-Ray, i said you can search for reviews of Blu-Ray standalone players who were tested against the PS3 and had better image quality.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 12th January, 2008, 11:24 AM
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I've looked through a whole bunch of reviews, which compare PS3 vs stand-alone blu-ray players.

All of them say that the image quality is as good, or better on the PS3.

All the PS3 lacks is a fancy remote control, as standard, and an LCD panel on the front.

Stand-alone players have a video chip for decoding video data, the PS3 doesn't. It uses the Cell processor, which is potentially a great advantage. Sony can update the video software, whenever they like. It's totally flexible. The Cell processor can decode video, blind folded, standing on its head. It can decode multiple video sources, at the same time, without working up a sweat.

Quote:
I tested both players with a 50-inch high-definition plasma screen, the Pioneer Elite PRO-FHD1, running the output over HDMI at 1080p. I could see that the images from the PlayStation 3 appeared noticeably sharper and crisper, with more depth and detail than the Samsung unit produced. That's probably because the BD-P1000 was released with noise reduction enabled by default and offered no way to disable it.
From:
PC World - Burning Questions: PS3--The Blu-ray Movie Experience

Quote:
The PS3 more than holds its own in image quality, and wins hands down on boot up and disc access speed.
From:
Sony PS3: Best BD Player Out There?

Quote:
During the time I've spent with the PS3 I've also had the VPL-VW50 "Pearl" projector to use it with, which is Sony's latest $5K, 1080p SXRD rig. My screen is an 80" wide Stewart StudioTek 130. I also compared the PS3 directly to the updated version of Samsung's BD-P1000 BD player, which has fixed the faulty NR circuit that made it excessively soft and noisy on release, and I was able to briefly compare it to Sony's standalone BDP-S1 Blu-ray player. I also have Toshiba's HD-XA1 HD DVD player, which I occasionally used for comparing titles duplicated on Blu-ray and HD DVD.

While Blu-ray software continues to be mysteriously variable in video quality, the PS3 was entirely consistent in providing excellent performance that was just a bit sharper and more detailed than Samsung's BD-P1000. Like Editor Tom Norton, I've now seen what Blu-ray can do, and it can be unequivocally glorious, regardless of which of the three video codecs are used (MPEG-2, MPEG-4/AVC, and VC-1 have all been used on BD) or whether the disc is 25GB or 50GB.
From:
UltimateAVmag.com: PlayStation3 Blu-ray Disc Player
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 12th January, 2008, 04:37 PM
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Samsung BDP1000 which both articles compared the PS3 with is the first Generation Blu-Ray from Samsung and its already 2 years old.
Like i said i saw the PS3 play next to the Samsung BDP1400 and the SHARP BD-HP20S and out of 7 people there 6 people confirmed that the SHARP and the SAMSUNG Blu-Ray players had better image quality.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 12th January, 2008, 06:26 PM
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I would suspect, that you may have simply been observing the difference between 1080p and 1080i. In which case, you would hope that the 1080p player would look a little better than the 1080i PS3.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 12th January, 2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasVagabond View Post
I cant really spot the components that are inferior in quality but from my knowledge each Blu-Ray and HD-DVD device use different chips/decoders and different quality of external connectors ( metal/gold ).
This is very true of old school equipment but doesn't apply to digital equipment in the same way. I've heard very knowledgable people saying things like "you need to buy a high quality optical audio cable to give you optimum audio quality and a fuller soundstage". Its not audio until it hits the decoder in the amp, until then its just data, and the tollerances in digital signals are extremely forgiving.

My setup is HDMI from PS3 to TV, optical from PS3 to Z5500 amp. Even if I used a coax RCA cable for my digital audio, a rotten corroded one that's been in the garage since the 1970s will sound just as good, as long as it isn't broken as the $600 gold plated digital coax cables that con artists will sell you at high end audio stores.

That's one of the major advantages that digital electronics offered; electronics equipment can be made extremely cheaply and with very poor tollerances and as long as it /works/ it will be at its best still.
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