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Old 27th June, 2002, 03:03 PM
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NTFS vs. FAT32 ?

OK, I'm debating on whether to convert my FAT32 volumes for WinXP and its data partition I made to NTFS. I already have converted my Win2K and its data partition yesterday (cool little convert.exe file in both o/s's, btw, allow you to convert on the fly. If you're converting the exisiting drive, it'll tell you it can't gain full access to the drive, and do you want to do it at next boot).

No loss of information, and the only negative thing I can find, possibly, is that I won't be able to put any Win9X o/s's on unless I repart. and reformat back to FAT32, boo hoo. hahhahaha..

My question is: Are there any OTHER DISadvantages to having an NTFS file system over a FAT32 system? I already converted my partition that has Half Life/ Counterstrike, Unreal T, and M.o.H., and they all play fine under NTFS.
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Old 27th June, 2002, 03:12 PM
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Actually you gain stability and security plus better HD space management.
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Old 27th June, 2002, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Samuknow
Actually you gain stability and security plus better HD space management.
This is MY understanding ALSO. I've been meaning to get on the XP bandwagon for sometime. Too bad Mr. Gates wants soooooo much.

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Old 27th June, 2002, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Samuknow
Actually you gain stability and security plus better HD space management.
...and like Martha might say, "And that's a GOOD thing"
....... oops, maybe she ain't saying that so much lately.

I think I'll just give it a whirl here in a bit. Since my o/s's are Win2K and WinXP, and I don't plan on ever using any 9X or Linux o/s's on this box, what the hey. I was initially concerned that some of my programs wouldn't work, but that's not the case.

It's like giving up DOS, you know? That was a hard hurdle.

I have one BIG question, but I'll go to Google here in a sec...
I currently use a Win98 Boot Disk for emergencies. Will I be able to access the drives from it, or will I have to use the 6 Disk Setup series for XP ? Hmmm. Guess I better find out.
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Last edited by Orbit; 27th June, 2002 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 27th June, 2002, 04:20 PM
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I have used NTFS for a while, although I regret not being able to boot up from a 9x floppy and modfy the harddrive
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Old 27th June, 2002, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spode
I have used NTFS for a while, although I regret not being able to boot up from a 9x floppy and modfy the harddrive
Im still using fat32 for that reason.
The slight gains in speed and security are not worth sacrificing the ability to boot from a dos disk so i can fix my mistakes.

Although since ive been running Ghost ive not needed to use DOS.
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Old 27th June, 2002, 05:39 PM
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Well, after doing some research, there are a couple of options to booting to a Win9X disk.

If the only reason you can't boot WinXP is because of ntldr etc, but the system files are fine, you can make an EBD by copying ntldr, ntdetect and boot.ini over to a formatted floppy.

If your system files are corrupt, or you need access, you must run the 6 disk setup sequence to access the Recovery Panel.

Or, buy a program called: ntfsdos professional, which I won't.
There's not many options to accessing an ntfs volume for some reason.

I like the advanced security options with ntfs, as I let my sons play games on mine, and I don't really want them to be able to modify my website directory where I keep my work.

It's hell weaning from DOS, isn't it? haha...

So, HERE is a file called delpart.exe that will delete an ntfs partition from the Win98 Boot Disk. Copy the 123K file to the boot floppy.
Run it first, then run regular fdisk, supposedly, I haven't tried it.

EDIT: Later that day.... well, the change has been made. I took the plunge to total NTFS. If'n I come across any minuses, I'll be sure to post my observations...
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Last edited by Orbit; 27th June, 2002 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 27th June, 2002, 06:21 PM
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I still run a 5Gb FAT 32 partition, with Win98 on it - I have some games that just don't like 2000 & NTFS.

However, you can't beat NTFS for stability and file security.
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Old 27th June, 2002, 09:16 PM
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NTFS file security is great whilst you're running under an NT Kernel (obviously!) NTFS has some issues, but most people won't come across them.

The biggest item is that NTFS is slower than FAT32, which is slower than FAT16. The reason? All that extra security requires far more work. On a multi-user system, NTFS is faster than FAT16/32 because it's designed for multi-user. On a single user system, it's debatable.

Another item is the MFT (Master File Table). The MFT is a little like the FAT table under FAT16/32. Small files (<4K?) also get stored in the MFT. If you have hundreds/thousands of small files, the MFT grows to take this into account. Last time I checked, there was no way of shrinking the MFT. Once the MFT takes up a large chunk of disk space, that disk space isn't usable by larger files. This generally isn't a problem for most people.

You also want to ensure your favourite defragger can defrag the MFT, as unlike the FAT table, the MFT can and does get fragmented.

Windows XP has a hotfix for NTFS to fix a few problems, and the service pak contains further fixes.

Another possible issue is that NTFS file permissions are based around a Security ID (SID). If your username has no rights, as your SID isn't mentioned, then you can't open the file. If you have to do a complete reinstall of NTFS, your new username won't have the same SID (SIDs are random), and you might have to jump through a few hoops to get access to your old files.

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Old 28th June, 2002, 02:52 AM
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AidanII, you be the gawd of hd.

I'm trying out O&O Defrag Pro for awhile. Says it can defrag your page file and mft at boot. We'll see.

Thanks.
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Old 28th June, 2002, 06:31 AM
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how much is the pro version of O&O? (or does anyone know of a good freeware defragger that does the same thing?)

one option for keeping dos is using 2 partions, a very small DOS part. and a huge NTFS that way when you crash you can use a DOS-NTFS reader to fix whatever the problem is, or backup important stuff
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Old 28th June, 2002, 01:55 PM
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I *think* it's around $50, don't quote me.

As for a DOS-NTFS reader, that's all I could find, was a READER.

There is a proggie called NTFSDOS Professional that WILL allow you to 'write', as in delete, move, etc. files on an ntfs partition from a DOS bootdisk. Didn't want to spend the $50 on it, though, and no timedemo to test it, other than the 'lite' version of read only.
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Old 28th June, 2002, 02:35 PM
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Yeah, I uses the O&O defrag last night and it did my 40g drive un about 10 minutes. Works great so far. Even offers you different selections of how you want to organize your files. By date, name, most accessed etc. Good progy so far
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Old 28th June, 2002, 04:55 PM
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I have a NTFS partition on my project drive (20GB partition) so I can save files over 4GB in size (fat32 limits the max files size to 4GB as you probably know). I have fat32 on my C: and D: drives, C: has winxp Pro and D: win 98se. I also store my games and MP3 library on D: . I won't format to NTFS because I am not conviced of stability gains and I will never need to save a 4GB or larger file there, and I like to be able to modify / access my C: drive when in windows 98.
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Old 28th June, 2002, 05:51 PM
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The 4 gig limit was a Fat32 limitation? Cool. I tried to do a system backup to one of my partitions when I was using Fat32, and got that error message.

That was the first and only 4+gb file i'd come across, that musta been one big puppie. haha.

As for having dual file systems, I gave it some thought. About the only thing that 'scared' me was if some of my programs wouldn't work, but so far, no difference at all.
And the fact that I could no longer access any of the drives and partitions from my good ol' win98 Startup disk. Cuttin' the lifeline, walking the highwire without a net, sorta thing.
So, that's when I found alternatives and how to get around that, before I made the total conversion. I'd already done the Win2K and another partition...just couldn't give up the DOS net.

Guess I'm in the big water now, eh? I sure do like that I can assign security to individual folders and files and programs, as I let my two sons have their own profiles to play games when they come over. I was concerned I'd eventually lose some of my work files, just paranoid.
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Last edited by Orbit; 28th June, 2002 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 29th June, 2002, 01:49 PM
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Since I switched to NTFS about 3 years ago, I have yet to see one of those Scandisk things pop up on boot. That alone is worth it. It's very very rare for me to get corrupted files for any reason. The slower performance is hardly noticeable unless you play games with frequent disk access. Personally, I would never go back to FAT.
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Old 29th June, 2002, 02:28 PM
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Yes, I DID notice that Medal of Honor was a bit jerky after I did the conversion. It's one of those stupid games that has to have the CD in to work. And, I sorta figured it might have had something to do with NTFS, as that was the only thing different.

Ah, well, it's still playable, but irritating.

However, Unreal T plays just right nice still. Haven't tried Counterstrike yet, I'll let the boys test it out.

Other than that... all's well so far. All programs up and running just fine.

I DID run a 'sorted by access' defrag on my XP partition, that took about an hour or more (with O&O Defrag), and now Photoshop opens up a couple of seconds faster, that's cool. Takes about 4 seconds on the initial opening, then a couple seconds the next times.

I want a box that will open PS in 2 seconds on the first open. HAHAHA (like that 2 extra seconds is soooo hard to live with)
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Old 29th June, 2002, 03:24 PM
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i wonder if there is a way of booting and using cmd.exe as the shell??
ive seen the reg key for "Alternate Shell" under the keys for safemode but i cant quite get the syntax for using it- /safeboot:Minimal(alternateshell) is what ive tried but no luck- does anyone know anything?
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Old 29th June, 2002, 03:49 PM
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Ah... my first issue.

Tried creating a new file in Dreamweaver, and got the message saying I did not have permissions to create the file, tough luck.


Even under the Admin Login. ACHHH>

So, I messed around and messed around with Security Settings, and removed the Users group from the permissions, and it now works. However, I'm not sure if it's now protected from other user logins.

Guess there's a lot to learn about NTFS and Security, but I guess that's why I did it. Something new to keep me occupied instead of posting to forums when I'm bored. Heh.
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Old 10th July, 2002, 02:09 AM
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I would run NTFS, but i have found, through multiply tries, that i CANNOT overclock the FSB when running NTFS. With FAT32 im fine up to 174mhz before i get data corruption. With NTFS i cant even boot at 150, i get an inaccessable boot device error. Im not sure at what point it starts working, but i know it wont work at 150. Iv tried both by converting the file system, and by formatting to NTFS, doesnt work.
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