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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 29th January, 2003, 09:14 PM
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TFT choice help

I'm thinking of selling my old 17" CRT lump for a sleek sexy 15" TFT (the viewing areas are almostthe same). I'll be heading off to uni in October ( a little early I know but I'll need to earn the money back up before I go there) and will not only be shuttling between home and back every few weeks but my parents have split meaning we'll be selling the house and moving possibly more than once over the next couple of years. So I need help with what to go for.

I'll be doing gaming, DVDing and work. So I'll need a high refresh rate. The pixel life thingy is normally 30 or 25 ns on the ones I've seen. This sounds pretty good but will it mean noticeable smearing of moving objects in games and video (this is an annoyance I can;t stand in laptops)?

How about brightness. Is 250cd/m^2 ok? How about 300? Is that unit candles per metre squared or something? I've seen a good value one saying it has a 160deg viewing angle - is this likely to be one of those advertising things to make you buy it - like its visible but the olours are inverted by the time u get to the wide angle?

In summary: what are the things to look for and avoid?
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Old 29th January, 2003, 09:17 PM
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ok I jsut realised that the pixel time is 30 or 25 milliseconds not nano seconds which is actually LONGER than the time taken to refresh each pixel. I heard that TFTs are too laggy for gaming - you reckon?
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Old 30th January, 2003, 04:33 PM
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I haven't looked at TFT monitors for a year. The inexpensive one's(~$500) looked terrible. The ~$1500 one's looked good. AFAIK, LCD's simply don't do games well.

Seems to me that TFT monitors are simply a status symbol. Sure, they take up a lot less space and draw a lot less power. They're light-- big CRT's weigh 75 lbs or more. They look really good when used by snooty businesses. All the same, are they worth a hoot for gaming?

A lot can change in a year! Maybe the cheap one's look good now?
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Old 30th January, 2003, 05:17 PM
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Although not practical, still cool:

http://www.deviantpc.com/coranto/Epu...kwXDXqMU.shtml

:-D
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Old 30th January, 2003, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ByteWipe
Although not practical, still cool:

http://www.deviantpc.com/coranto/Epu...kwXDXqMU.shtml

:-D
That would be even harder to drag around than his 17" CRT.
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Old 30th January, 2003, 06:31 PM
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Some TFTs have good on/off times. Many TFTs don't. Make sure you get both the rise, and the fall time. The fall time is the slower of the two, and is more important.

160degree viewable usually means 160degree viewable. There is actually a standard method for measuring this. My TFT is 160 degree viewable, and you have to be pratically looking on edgeways before you can't see it. There's no color inversion either.

My recommendation would be to SEE the monitor you're looking at buying in action.

Áedán
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Old 30th January, 2003, 07:06 PM
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Dangit that means looking in a shop. Practically forgot what those horribly over-pricing places were like. 25ms is the lowest fall time I've seen. That was on one for about £220 including VAT.

Weight is definitely more the issue here. I will be doing some gaming but not exactly l337 kr3w laning or world championships. I expect I'll leave it for a couple of months till the price comes down and I need it more.

At the moment I'm not putting nearly enough of my income away in the bank for uni. Why do I have to choose the most expensive hobby?
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Old 30th January, 2003, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Staz

That would be even harder to drag around than his 17" CRT.
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytewipe

Although not practical
Yep. S'what I said.
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Old 30th January, 2003, 08:19 PM
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The Sumsung Line of digital LCD's are very good for gaming. They accept both traditional analog connectors and the new DVI ones. If you use the analog you get no ghosting. Not to mention the vertical refresh rate is high as well, so if you lock you frame rates to your refresh rate to get rid of tearing, then you do not suffer from low frames like in the past with LCD's.

Brian W

http://www.samsungelectronics.com/mo.../151p_spec.pdf

I would go for the 17" at least, in fact I think I will get the 19" soon.....:beer:
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Old 30th January, 2003, 09:07 PM
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The only thing for me when it comes to LCD TFTs is I wouldnt recommend them for gaming. The problem is that the contrast ratio is very low compared to CRTs. What this means is that say your gaming and enter a "tunnel" where the shades are dark green, black, brown, dark brown, etc. everything appears to be black. I have tried a Samsung SyncMaster 760V TFT for gaming and the result is what I have stated above.

Good point for a LCD screen is that they are light, take up less space in the desk, and look good.
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Old 30th January, 2003, 09:33 PM
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The model I inked is different than what you refered to. I have played on the 172T, and it does very well in dark halls on Counter Strike...

Brian W

The only way to see if you like it, is to take your tower in and check it out. See how it works with your system. MOst large shops will not allow this, however some local ones will.
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Old 30th January, 2003, 11:28 PM
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This monitor is pretty bad at dark places anyway possibly due to age or higher resolutions. Most of the ones I've seen have a contrast ratio of 350:1 Which seems about standard. Some of the vertical refresh rates are 75hz but as I said before thats longer than the fall time for the pixels.

From what I've heard I expect I'll be going for one of these with 25ms, 75hz and 350:1 contrast. Other features are down to the individual product and i'll probably just look up reviews for the ones theyre doing on ebuyer.
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Old 31st January, 2003, 02:16 AM
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LCD monitors do not refresh the same way that CRTs do. Although your computer will tell you that it's sending out a 75Hz (or whatever) signal, the LCD will not be refreshing at that rate, as it is not tied to the refresh rate. Hence, things like refresh rate don't mean anything when talking about an LCD.

Just FYI, as I'm sure you know a CRT refreshes the picture by scanning an electron beam across the screen, line at a time. In fact, it takes time for that beam to sweep across each line (The horizontal scan rate - usually in KHz). On an LCD, each pixel in a line can be refreshed instantaniously. So, whilst the poor old CRT has to spent time dragging it's 3 electron beams across the screen (That's 1280 pixels by 1024 lines, or 1.3million pixels to drag that beam across), the LCD simply does it a line at at time (That's 1024 lines, a lot less work than 1.3million pixels, in fact 1280 times less work!).

When using LCD monitors, a DVI connection (in my opinion) is better. There is no digital to analog conversion, squirt down cable and convert back to digital. There's no loss of colour information, no gamma problems, no pixel jitter (Where a pixel can't make up it's mind where it wants to be on the screen).

LCD monitors have something known as a "native" resolution. It's the physical resolution of the LCD. Running the screen at any other resolution, and it doesn't look so good. The LCD hardware has to stretch the image to fit the pixels on the screen. This is known as scaling. Using the analog connection, and the LCD may not do any scaling. This leads to rather nasty images where every xth pixel is doubled to make it fix. Not nice.

With DVI, the monitor manufacturer is responsible for all scaling. Whilst running at a non-native resolution with DVI is certainly viewable, it's not optimal, and won't be as sharp as a CRT. On the other hand, running at the native resolution, and the LCD will wipe the floor with a CRT in terms of sharpness.

The LCD monitor I have has no problems with dark colours - I've checked it against gamma charts to see how it performs with such tasks. In fact in this respect, my particular LCD monitor performs better than the CRT it replaces! Not all LCD monitors are this good however. Some LCD monitors cannot handle 24bit colour - this is probably where you'd notice things not looking their best.

Áedán
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Old 31st January, 2003, 07:23 PM
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Yeh my laptop does scaling (or used to before it broke) on dos resolutions. Not pretty. However, I will practically always be using the full 1024*768 for desktop and gaming. I would like a higher res but at that screen size it isn't necessary.

Thanks for the all the food for thought.
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