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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 01:58 PM
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Mind showing me the link?

The XP software for the CMI8378 on my mobo simply has a tickbox for SPDIF output. When you chose 5.1, this is greyed out. No mention of dolby digital, but maybe my driver's old.

THE CMI8378 on my Dad's GF's PC has a passthrough checkbox but nothing about dolby digital encoding.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 02:10 PM
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The Terratec Aureon 5.1 Fun is also based around the same CMedia chip.

The link is a press release about it. I've found very little detail on their web pages! Press release.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 02:24 PM
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According to that article, the software encoding is for the CMI9739 only. It only mentions the 8738 at the end of the article in passing as being CMIs current major product. CMedia download page for the 8738 has a drive that is 2 years old. Installing it kept the same options on my pc

Gonna look at finding cards with the 9739 chipset now...
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 03:10 PM
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Sorry - My fault for not reading too closely!
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 03:38 PM
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I've found reference to Philips using that 9739 chipset in their cards but no evidence of the existence of such a thing. It seems that the 9739 is only built into motherboards at the moment.

I may just go for the Trust 514DX and live with the pass through. The optical connection should provide better quality that the analogue cable I'm using at the moment. Maybe I'll wait and find out if Doom3 does DICE or EAX (if I understand rightly, DICE will encode to dolby digital and get me the full package).
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 04:27 PM
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DICE better encode to Dolby Digital, given that DICE stands for 'Dolby Interactive Content Encoder' It's designed as an on the fly Dolby Digital encoder for consumer use. It's also the encoder used on nVidia's nForce 2 MCP-T part.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 04:35 PM
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aedan...you bastid..ac3 is not just 5.1..please don't convince anyone of this.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 04:41 PM
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just so you know, AC3 was developed BY SONY, not dolby. was to pair multi-channel(stereo,and up) with digital video.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
The SPDIF format is designed to run up to 96KHz sample rate in stereo with 24bit words. There is NO difference between the coax and optical, other than the fact that one is photons and one is electrons. The optical version works by pushing the SPDIF signal into an LED. Running flat out, the SPDIF format has a maximum bandwidth of 3.1MHz.
toslink (optical) is limited to 24bit/48khz.
Quote:
just so you know, AC3 was developed BY SONY, not dolby. was to pair multi-channel(stereo,and up) with digital video.

ac3 was developed by dolby, not sony, and they hold the patent on it too (along with ac2, a single channel encoding method). sony developed sdds, for which they hold the patent.
ac3 was developed in a time where the only digital video you'd see is cgi.. so no, it wasn't designed to pair multi-channel with digital video.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 06:22 PM
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Can anyone site specific patents that cover the AC-3 / Dolby Digital?
> I did a patent search at http://www.delphion.com/ for the obvious
> key words and didn't find (or at least notice) anything specific.
> But, then, I'm not an expert on patent searching or this technology.


added an attachment of the atsc's thoughts on this....they regulate the standard we are trying to argue.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf a_52a.pdf (630.4 KB, 601 views)
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confused1
toslink (optical) is limited to 24bit/48khz.

ac3 was developed by dolby, not sony, and they hold the patent on it too (along with ac2, a single channel encoding method). sony developed sdds, for which they hold the patent.
ac3 was developed in a time where the only digital video you'd see is cgi.. so no, it wasn't designed to pair multi-channel with digital video.
AC-3: Flexible Perceptual Coding for Audio
Transmission and Storage

Craig C. Todd, Grant A. Davidson, Mark F. Davis,
Louis D. Fielder, Brian D. Link, Steve Vernon
Dolby Laboratories
San Francisco

Reproduced by permission of the Audio Engineering Society, Inc.
Presented at the 96th Convention, 1994 February 26 - March 01

0. Abstract

Dolby AC-3 is a flexible audio data compression technology capable of encoding a range of audio channel formats into a low rate bit stream. Channel formats range from monophonic to 5.1 channels, and may include a number of associated audio services. Based on a transform filter bank and psychoacoustics, AC-3 includes the novel features of transmission of a variable frequency resolution spectral envelope and hybrid backward/forward adaptive bit allocation.





that was taken from the dolby labs site. although dolby has the PATENT RIGHTS to the TRADEMARKS for the dolbydigital and AC-3, the actual encoding was based off of Sony's SRS...and they even say that.
please don't laugh @ me....you might just want to read it all before you comment. that was quite obviously a deliberate flame, and really had no revelancy to the thread. you don't have all the info, my son.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
My receiver indicates that it's picking up an AC3 encoded bitstream. That on it's own indicates that the receiver is getting all 5.1 channels. AC3 is a fairly complex protocol that does some compression in order to fit the audio into the bandwidth of the bitstream available. Hence, ALL AC3 encoders have to do processing, if only to manipulate the audio into an AC3 bitstream.

If you haven't told Soundstorm to encode AC3, then you may well find that your receiver is running in Dolby Surround mode instead. This sends the Dolby Surround encoded data over two channel PCM information via SPDIF.

As far as I'm aware, Soundstorm is the only sound solution for PCs that's capable of encoding Dolby Digital.
read my last post..from dolby site..ac-3 is mono up to mtluti..ac-3 is NOT 5.1
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 08:47 PM
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if you read the whole article, and the others @ the site, you'll see what i mean. AC-3 is the format for encoding the sound so it can be transfered properly...AC-3 signals can be DTS, DolbyDigital, DolbySurround, SRS, and countless other codecs...it IS ONLY THE WAY THE SIGNAL IS TRANSMITTED....LIKE A PCM SIGNAL....WHICH IS AC-3's COMPETITION
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 09:35 PM
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Just somthing to note, the audigy 2, does not have a dolby digital / ac3 encoder. It's a right pain in the backside seeing as they advertise it as being able to do *.1 digitally (* refering to which model, 5, 6, 7 etc)
Which technically it does do digital surround sound but there is a big catch, you have to use a certain creative speaker set and use a special multi core digital cable.

I have a very nice Sony STR-K840P which does everything under the sun in 5.1 and is very powerfull and defined.
Using spdif if the original source is dd, it will happily pass it to the decoder which lights up with glee.
If its anything else it gets downmixed by the creaf card, sent over as 2.1 and then upmixed to 5.1 via dolby prologic II.

The reason for this mess up according to creaf tech support is that the audigy 2 uses PCM (Pulse coded modulation) for its digital output itself. Which is an uncompressed format (much like cd audio) and it hits the bandwidth wall of spdif. Ac3 and alike are allready compressed and it will happily pass-thru the signals.

I have found that you can encode to dd via software and get surround sound across from windows sound stuff. Though this is a) a pain in the backside to setup b) currently all i can get it working properly for is mpeg / mp3's which are upmixed before sending over, the amp does a better job of this by itself. c) the source files need to also be converted to 48Khz on the fly. It gets messy and video ends up out of sync with audio.

For most stuff i use the digital connection but when playing surround sound games i have to resort to analogue cables and change a few settings (sub redirect etc)

It's anoying but i've learned to live with it and as a result i dont play many games these days

If only the 3rd party creative drivers could implment DD encoding into the software i'd be really happy (kx drivers)

K
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 09:45 PM
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what level of audigy2 do you have keith?
the platinum2ex offers both dolby and dts recording, if you have the proper software. the dts side is not highly documented, as they kinds screwed things up there, but i've gotten it to work on a previous system.
if you want to get the optical 5.1...it is not going to happen unless THE SOURCE IS ENCODED THAT WAY, and you pass through the signal to your amp. when buying all the goodies, i thought that all these d3d games in 5.1 would work the same way as well, but i was wrong. HOWEVER KEITH, if you connect the coaxial connector to your stereo, and have a stereo rca jackset on the same input line, all you have to do is plug both the coaxial line AND THE MINI_PLUG TO RCA FOR THE REAR CHANNELS IN YOUR CARD. you will then get the 4.1 digital signal to your amp that can then decode it. the coaxial line is just the signal decode path, and the actual audio gets passes through the rear jack. this is why you have to select optical only in your control panel. that selection is what tells your card to pass the signal through the rear outputs.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 30th July, 2004, 09:48 PM
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it's really unfortunate that creative has not properly documented all the uses of thier cards, and the basic functions, but in creating my production studio, i had to figure this all out for myself.
you've also got to remember that creative IS JUST THE BIGGEST NAME OUT THERE. this by no means means that they are the best. In fact, i get audio that i find more pleasing to my ears through my turtlebeach card, but it does not work with my current mobo.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 31st July, 2004, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
that was taken from the dolby labs site. although dolby has the PATENT RIGHTS to the TRADEMARKS for the dolbydigital and AC-3, the actual encoding was based off of Sony's SRS...and they even say that.
please don't laugh @ me....you might just want to read it all before you comment. that was quite obviously a deliberate flame, and really had no revelancy to the thread. you don't have all the info, my son.
exactly where does it say that ac-3 is based off of an algorithm developed by sony? unless my eyes are fooling me.. i don't see anything.

however, i will retract my statement on how ac3 wasn't developed for digital video.

the notion that ac3 can be dts is foolish.
ac3 is an algorithm for coding and decoding multi-channel audio.. it's dolby's algorithm that they license for consumer products. essentially, it is dolby digital. when you're using the ac3 decoder, a little light lights up that shows the dolby symbol with "DIGITAL" next to it.
just the same.. dts is an algorithm for coding/decoding multichannel audio.

.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 31st July, 2004, 08:06 AM
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no ac-3 cannot be dts..was just an example...
do more reasearch...you'll find what i say is true....it's what led me to buying all sony equipment. and you can't call ac-3 dolbydigital..they trademarked "DolbyDigital" as 5.1/6.1 with INDIVIDUAL CHANNEL VOICING....kinda like how "DolbySurround" was trademarked 4.1 (with active matrix processing, the part that sony developed and they expanded upon)....all of which USE AC-3 AS THE TRANSMISSION CODEC OR PROTOCOL.
AC-2 was stereo...or 4 channel stereo, like one of madonna's albums..can't remember which one....AC-3 added in the .1 as well as quite a few other things.
you can get 10.1 surround systems, which include speakers in the ceiling and floor, and the guy who does thx (lucasfilm?) is working on 16.1 and 24.1...multi-leveled sound (speakers @ the floor and roof) which almost give real 3-d sound.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 31st July, 2004, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
no ac-3 cannot be dts..was just an example...
do more reasearch...you'll find what i say is true....it's what led me to buying all sony equipment. and you can't call ac-3 dolbydigital..they trademarked "DolbyDigital" as 5.1/6.1 with INDIVIDUAL CHANNEL VOICING....kinda like how "DolbySurround" was trademarked 4.1 (with active matrix processing, the part that sony developed and they expanded upon)....all of which USE AC-3 AS THE TRANSMISSION CODEC OR PROTOCOL.
AC-2 was stereo...or 4 channel stereo, like one of madonna's albums..can't remember which one....AC-3 added in the .1 as well as quite a few other things.
you can get 10.1 surround systems, which include speakers in the ceiling and floor, and the guy who does thx (lucasfilm?) is working on 16.1 and 24.1...multi-leveled sound (speakers @ the floor and roof) which almost give real 3-d sound.
first you tell me to read a document to find my proof.. now you're telling me to do some research? if you're gonna make an argument, back it up with credible sources instead of telling me to "go research it". either that or just ditch it all together.
and no, they trademarked ac3 as dolby digital. it can be in any format from 1.0 to 2.0 to 5.1 to 6.1. either way, it's still considered dolby digital.

http://www.dolby.com/Consumer/Techno...byDigital.html
read #8
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 31st July, 2004, 09:18 AM
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you did not read what i said...
read all the articles there...do some research on that site
i don't know how you get that ac-3 is dolby digital...as dolby surround is sent via ac-3 as well. Dude...keep reading!
besides, how does this affect how stigweed gets his sound to his dreamsystem? It doesn't!
if ya want to argue with me about DD, then start a thread on that so we aren't wasting other peoples time.
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