Home made projector! - Page 21

Chernobyl · #**401** (**permalink**) 13th July, 2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Gonzo_

Hi Guys,

I have been following this theme for a bit and see you guys are pro's!

I have read the Toms hardware guide and got myself a projector (for nothing..work threw it out..I fixed it) then I went and got a tft over ebay (German Ebay. I live in Munich) but it was impossible to take apart. So I went and got Belina 101536 which is on Toms site as one to go for! Last night I took it apart to find a cable linking the vertical pcb boards to the horizontal board is too short! (hope you know what I mean)

This cable will end up in the way! So I sat up most of last night

and scanned the internet and came across this thread! So heres the question!

Should I

A - Give up and cry

- (not an option)
B - put it back together and flog it cheap and buy a BENQ FP 567s V2? or something else? please tell me which one I should go for..I work for a distributor so I can get most brands at cost.
C - Cut the cable and extend it somehow! how?
D - get an extender cable (FCC?) if so where can I get one for the Belina 101536?

I would be grateful if you had the time to reply to a virgin diy projector noob!

Ciao
Gonzo

Hi Gonzo

I wondered if TomsHardware had actually tested the LCDs for suitability, it seems not!
Avoid the BenQ monitor, I used one and it did a slow death march. I recommend the IIyama E380S, but there are now faster LCDs around. I dont know which are suitable though.

There may be life in your monitor yet, but not for 2 months

The guy who I bought my bulb from sells ribbons to extend the electronics away from the screen.
http://62.75.177.102/shop2/index.php...kat=6&vskats=1
I recommend contacting him with details of your LCD to find if the cables are suitable (asI dont want to give you false info).
He is on holiday for 2 months. The site will accept orders, but you wont receive the delivery/response til after he gets back.

I dont recommend extending the cable you have, get a cable for the job.
Remove the cable and take it to Tandys or RS etc, get one of the guys behind the counter to give you a longer replacement.

Warning!
The LCD may have been designed for the impedance/reactance/inductance/frequency response of a certain type/length of ribbon cable. Another cable 'may' not work.
I doubt it tho, and it wont cost too much to find out.

I had a look at the monitor you have and it may not be suitable for gaming.
its Response Time is 27ms which is rather slow since some folks dont like to use 16ms for gaming. The specs are not always directly comparable as I have heard of comparisons between some fast/slow LCDs that show they were the same response!
Remember to use adequate earth protection when handling the monitors innards.

If you wish to game on your projector, try the LCD now and see if you get noticeable ghosting.

Beware of the list on Tomshardware, his test was to see if the LCDs are good enough for watching movies. He did no gaming tests.
He also didnt test all the monitors on his list it seems!

Good luck

ps welcome to the project!

Chernobyl · #**402** (**permalink**) 13th July, 2005, 12:23 PM

Hi Cyrax
I cant see enough detail in those photos to follow all of your questions.
Can you borrow a better camera?

you may want to look how I mounted the electronics on my OHP.
I have tried 2 LCDs and both were able to mount in this fashion.
http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=19
1/3rd of the way down this page
Home made projector!

Regarding the cardboard, cut it in straight lines.
if you make a curve, then the next piece of cardboard will need to be bent around it or you will have a gap.
I regard cardboard as a temporary measure even though I'm still using it.
For tape I used Duct/Duck tape. Its great stuff, buy a crate

This tape will block all light very nicely and is adheres quite well to cardboard.
Once you have the taped together cardboard shroud, you can open it up and lay it flat on the floor, trace the outline and make another from a single sheet of card or other material. This would probably make you happier.

I wouldnt re-cut the cardboard until you have decided if you are going to change the way the electronics are mounted as you will have to do it again if you use a different method.

If the above isnt enough to sort the problem, can you get some better photos please?

flyguy · #**403** (**permalink**) 14th July, 2005, 02:37 PM

First of all, Chernobyl, thanks for putting so much effort into this thread. I, too, have caught the fever and about to jump into this. I purchased a Samsung SyncMaster 152T and a 3M 9100 OHP from eBay and should be disassembling by next week. I know the 9100 doesn't have a lot of power, and the 152T doesn't have the fastest response, but I don't do a lot of gaming and I'm trying to ease into this slowly (read: cheaply).

Does anyone have any experience with the 152T? Chernobyl, I tried the new thread you opened for user experiences with hardware, but I didn't see much on it, and the other thread you opened is inaccessible to such lowly newts as I

It's not on THG's list, but three other 152s are, and from reading the previous 21 pages of this thead (gotta do something at work, right?

) I know that Tom's list isn't always reliable. Any help would be appreciated, but my short-term goals are as follows:

1) Get a 60" image on a wall
2) Not destroy an LCD while trying to accomplish #1

Eventually, I'd like to put it in something nice enough to be allowed in the living room (to get the WAF up a bit), and based on Chernobyl's (and others') success with MH, replace th 85-hour ENX bulb with an MH bulb. Baby steps...

cyrax83 · #**404** (**permalink**) 15th July, 2005, 04:53 AM

anyone have any ideas for a more permanent solution instead of cardboard ?

flyguy · #**405** (**permalink**) 15th July, 2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrax83

anyone have any ideas for a more permanent solution instead of cardboard ?

What about sheet metal covered (on the inside) with Gaffer's tape (flat black, matte, non-reflective)? Too hard to work with? This would offer a universal ground path for the PCBs and a sturdy mount for the LCD, PCBs, fans, etc.

Chernobyl · #**406** (**permalink**) 15th July, 2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy

First of all, Chernobyl, thanks for putting so much effort into this thread. I, too, have caught the fever and about to jump into this. I purchased a Samsung SyncMaster 152T and a 3M 9100 OHP from eBay and should be disassembling by next week. I know the 9100 doesn't have a lot of power, and the 152T doesn't have the fastest response, but I don't do a lot of gaming and I'm trying to ease into this slowly (read: cheaply).

Does anyone have any experience with the 152T? Chernobyl, I tried the new thread you opened for user experiences with hardware, but I didn't see much on it, and the other thread you opened is inaccessible to such lowly newts as I

It's not on THG's list, but three other 152s are, and from reading the previous 21 pages of this thead (gotta do something at work, right?

) I know that Tom's list isn't always reliable. Any help would be appreciated, but my short-term goals are as follows:

1) Get a 60" image on a wall
2) Not destroy an LCD while trying to accomplish #1

Eventually, I'd like to put it in something nice enough to be allowed in the living room (to get the WAF up a bit), and based on Chernobyl's (and others') success with MH, replace th 85-hour ENX bulb with an MH bulb. Baby steps...

Hi FlyGuy, nice to have you with us.
Well done for reading the whole thread lol!
There hasnt been any response in the thread for good parts. No matter, its a nice extra if it does get used. The one you cant access needs sorting out as others have the same issue. Can you ping Daniel here to try and get it resolved please:
http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/priva...newpm&userid=4
I would sort it but as I have no problem with access, I wont be able to tell if its fixed.

Looking at the parts you have...

The LCD seems to be good for gaming despite its 25ms spec, good choice if it comes apart well

I also read it has a narrow viewing angle which may be of benefit to you!
That means more of the light could be transmitted in a forward direction.
Alternatively the light may be absorbed, meaning its no better or worse than other LCDs. Proof is in the pudding

The OHP is 360W, 65hrs (100+ hrs on low power) and runs as warm as mine did (45C on the glass bed). Its 2800 Lumens so not the brightest, you will need a dark room for best effect but it will be fine when its dark.
As its a doublet lense, a conversion to a MH bulb will require a Condensor lense like this one:
http://62.75.177.102/shop2/index.php...hkat=4&skat=10
You will need to make a metal mount for the lense to hold it above the bulb.
This OHP has the colour adjust meaning the bulb is mounted on a height adjustable platform, perfect for setting up the MH bulb easily.

You should be able to get a 60" screen without much problem if the room is dark enough. You will also need a decent screen. A bright Matt white painted wall will suffice or if you can get a 5ft (48"x48" approx) slide projector screen of at least 1.0 Gain you will have similar to me. All the ones on ebay dont list the Gain so you may have to take pot luck.

Best to get one with a black border as this helps the eyes contrast ratio and lets you hide rough screen edges if you have any, like this
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WDVW
I have unmounted mine from its stand and use the screen standing on the floor with the OHP on the floor, perfect height while on the Sofa.

If you can find one with a gain of 1.2 or 1.3 you will be happier.
I spotted there are some silver screens. These are likely to give hotspots (make bright brighter and dark darker). As there is more light in the center than the edges with this project, these might not look so good.
Many commercial projectors hotspot too, we are not alone.

To make sure you dont damage the LCD while working on it, tape aluminium foil to a large sheet of cardboard, work with the LCD on that only.
Retain all the electronics in its metal housing or you may kill it with static while using it.

Good luck with the project, keep us in the picture

Chernobyl · #**407** (**permalink**) 15th July, 2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguy

What about sheet metal covered (on the inside) with Gaffer's tape (flat black, matte, non-reflective)? Too hard to work with? This would offer a universal ground path for the PCBs and a sturdy mount for the LCD, PCBs, fans, etc.

A similar approach would be to paint the metal matt black on the inside.
I've been keeping my eye out for some semi thick black plastic sheet.
I havent looked awfully hard yet so dont know what is available.
It must be thick/rigid enough not to warp in summer temps.

Sorry I cant suggest a product yet.

cyrax83 · #**408** (**permalink**) 16th July, 2005, 01:32 AM

its not required to leave everything in the metal casing. i've got the pcb's sitting on cardboard a bit raised and the lcd sitting directly on the ohp (a bit raised again by cardboard strips). Works fine, had no problems.

Chernobyl · #**409** (**permalink**) 16th July, 2005, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrax83

its not required to leave everything in the metal casing. i've got the pcb's sitting on cardboard a bit raised and the lcd sitting directly on the ohp (a bit raised again by cardboard strips). Works fine, had no problems.

I cant say this too strongly.
Please make sure the electronics are insulated against electrostatic discharge.
This means they must be surrounded by a good earth.

It will work fine until one day it dies and you wont know why.
One of our fellows suffered a fate suspected to be static as he didnt observe antistatic precautions:
Home made projector!
Look for Cesiums post about 1/3 of the way down

I would expect something like this to happen if it isnt insulated from static.
It is of course your projector

Why take the risk?

cyrax83 · #**410** (**permalink**) 17th July, 2005, 02:37 AM

the stupid cable from the lcd to the pcb's are way too short (about 1.5 cm) to mount the pcb's on the metal casing. i'll post up some pics shortly.

note : yes chernobyl is correct, static is always an issue if you dont have it on the metal casing. I make sure i always touch some metal before i touch the pcb's. This is probably not enough precaution though.

MiccyNarc · #**411** (**permalink**) 17th July, 2005, 07:43 PM

Sorry for lack of updates. Missed the projector auction, no biggy. Waiting to get paid, then I'll carry on with the project.

Chernobyl · #**412** (**permalink**) 17th July, 2005, 08:54 PM

cool, good luck !

_Gonzo_ · #**413** (**permalink**) 19th July, 2005, 12:43 AM

Hi Chernobyl

You are a dedicated soldier to the DIY projector cause! Well done.

One question! is that the IIyama E380S-S3X??? dont want to go off buying the wrong model again!
Oh I live in Munich so dont know any Tandy or RS stores here. So you are sure this model is easy to strip! If so then I can get it for 198 yo yoes!

COol
Gonzo

Chernobyl · #**414** (**permalink**) 19th July, 2005, 07:52 AM

*Grin*

Hmm, I havent seen that suffix for the E380S before.
I checked to see if the E380S-S3X exists and lots of places are selling it.
This site includes it in their tech spec listings
http://www.lcdnfo.com/html/Iiyama_Pr...d-monitor.html
but the the links to Iiyama do not have the model.

The specification is exactly the same as the 'real' E380S but I have no idea if it uses the same internals.
I'm as confused as you are by the naming.

Yeah pay with yoyos, the returns policy is much better

MiccyNarc · #**415** (**permalink**) 19th July, 2005, 06:04 PM

Oh crap! The 520 is no longer available at Newegg

But I found it on ebay for $200... $20 more than I wanted to pay for it :-\

flyguy · #**416** (**permalink**) 20th July, 2005, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chernobyl

...The OHP is 360W, 65hrs (100+ hrs on low power) and runs as warm as mine did (45C on the glass bed)...

Got my OHP today! I'm going to have to be extra anal about static - the OHP came in lots and lots of styrofoam

Just trying to get that stuff out of the inside of the case is going to be a nightmare.

Does an OHP have to fold light through a cold mirror to have a cooling stage, or is it any time the light is folded? Mine (3M 9100) has a mirror in the bottom (not a front-surface mirror), but I have no idea if it's a cold mirror. The stage glass didn't seem extraordinarily warm, but without a temperature probe, I have no way to be sure. The current plan is to raise the LCD a few mm off the glass and blow it from the side with a harddrive cooler (3 40mm fans). Those of you who have taken temperature measurements: is the LCD cooler toward the edges or is the heat pretty evenly spread?

The plastic

fresnel is 11.5 x 11.5, and the stage glass is a bit larger, so I should be able to trim some plastic and get most of the LCD. Chernobyl, I'm very curious about the 'Clock' setting you changed to shrink the LCD. I was under the impression that the size of the pixels (and therefore the physical dimensions of the screen) is fixed by the nature of manufacturing. Is this not the case?

Since this will eventually (pending wife approval, of course

) go into the living room with no handy video input, I was thinking about this as a video source. Any thoughts?

I should have the LCD by tomorrow and will post pics as soon as I get something worth capturing

Chernobyl · #**417** (**permalink**) 20th July, 2005, 06:09 AM

If there is a mirror, its true function is determined by the materials the mirror is made from.

A true cooling stage mirror absorbs heat and allows UV to pass through it, meaning it doesnt reflect much of either heat or UV onto your LCD.
There is more to removing heat than the cooling stage, the mirror, ambient air and metal surrounding the bulb will heat up too and some will heat your LCD.
A cooling 'filter' can block more heat as it can keep the warmer air further away from the LCD if built correctly.

The 'clock' setting surprised me. I agree, a pixel is a pixel is a pixel.
It does a very good job though. Certain LCD calibration tools show the change up as a drastic interference pattern across the whole screen once it is shrunk. It must lose some pixels, but it does it carefully.
In use, you dont see any issues if ClearType fonts are used (text is fatter than 1 pixel then).

The Aver video source looks like a class product. There is no mention of Digital so I assume it is for Analogue TV, make sure that is what you want.
Analogue TV is around 640x480 res, so the higher resolution capability is only to match it to higher res LCD panels etc.

Once its in the living room, you wife owns and controls it

Looking forward to your results.

cyrax83 · #**418** (**permalink**) 20th July, 2005, 06:18 AM

Chernobyl · #**419** (**permalink**) 20th July, 2005, 06:30 AM

Cheers for the piccys, it looks very nice!
What are your impressions of it so far?

The temp sensor I use is the same as this
http://www.componentsuk.co.uk/catalo...2d15a2da9a7e5c
get more than one, they are quite useful.

Edit: your pictures have just disappeared

cyrax83 · #**420** (**permalink**) 20th July, 2005, 06:42 AM

hmm ... the thing is i havent used a power supply near my computer. i've got a very long vga cable connecting up to my computer on the other side of the room =/

not sure how i would be able to hook up that sensor

edit : also see the length of the ffc cables how they are so short ! its impossible to mount it on the casing

also here is the ripple problem i've got :

its only on one side and only noticeable when i have bright white showing, when showing colours its not really noticeable, but i'd still like to get it fixed somehow

its not on the actual projector i think, its something to do with the lcd ? i dont know, it only happens on one side of the lcd, the right side of the screen doesnt have it.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6839/13ripple9yy.jpg

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