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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 03:30 AM
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Cheers again Cesium.
Just on the off chance something was missed, I was checking through the LCDs config menus and came across a setting called 'Clock'. Reducing this value shrunk the right hand of the screen in towards the left The end result is extremely good, I now have from the left, up to 2/3 of the taskbar clock on the right. There is no evidence of missed pixel lines,nothing looks squashed, no missing anything, it just looks right!

Nice one.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 05:03 AM
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Well hi there guys, you true pioneers of value cinema

First, big Hail hail hail to Chernobyl who inspired me with his work like no man before...Bravo dude, you rock!!! Cesius, thanks for posting that video, now we can clearly see how this whole subject is awesome and how no one should leave it behind. I know I won`t, I just can`t wait to put my hands into it

Thinking about it...first question popped out. Looking at my place i realized that only option that i have is a wall-ceiling mount which is not scary for me cause i did a lot of stuff like that in my flat. One thing in which i`m not quite sure is maximum length of VGA cable that can provide picture without quality loss. Do you maybe now something about it? Can it go to lenghts like ... 7 meters?
I`m not sure that i can move my PC from place where it sits, so a long cable would be great solution.

Big greetings to you all
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernobyl
If you can tell from looking, what is the cooling layer made from in your OHP?
what exactly is the cooling layer? is that the hemisphere that sits around the bulb? if so, mine appears to have a full spectrum of iridesense

another thing, the upper middle of my screen seems to be lighter than the rest and im almost certain its the lcd... exactly how hot can lcds get and do they show any signs of being too hot?

nanoman, i bet 7 meters would still work even though that is fairly lengthy
im using a 6 foot vga extension and i cant tell any difference
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanoman
Well hi there guys, you true pioneers of value cinema

First, big Hail hail hail to Chernobyl who inspired me with his work like no man before...Bravo dude, you rock!!! Cesius, thanks for posting that video, now we can clearly see how this whole subject is awesome and how no one should leave it behind. I know I won`t, I just can`t wait to put my hands into it

Thinking about it...first question popped out. Looking at my place i realized that only option that i have is a wall-ceiling mount which is not scary for me cause i did a lot of stuff like that in my flat. One thing in which i`m not quite sure is maximum length of VGA cable that can provide picture without quality loss. Do you maybe now something about it? Can it go to lenghts like ... 7 meters?
I`m not sure that i can move my PC from place where it sits, so a long cable would be great solution.

Big greetings to you all

Cheers Nanoman, you are welcome

I read only today (yesterday?) that a VGA cable shouldnt be much longer than 13ft. I imagine the quality of the cable will affect this too. You never know it might work but that is quite a bit longer.
Keep us in the picture if you make yourself a projector
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesium
what exactly is the cooling layer? is that the hemisphere that sits around the bulb? if so, mine appears to have a full spectrum of iridesense

another thing, the upper middle of my screen seems to be lighter than the rest and im almost certain its the lcd... exactly how hot can lcds get and do they show any signs of being too hot?

nanoman, i bet 7 meters would still work even though that is fairly lengthy
im using a 6 foot vga extension and i cant tell any difference
Ah, I hoped you could see. This excerpt is from a 3M 9100 brochure:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cac...9100+pdf&hl=en
"The cool stage on the Model 9100 keeps transparency film from curling and prevents harm to LCD projection panels."
I wondered if you could see the cool stage easily.

Is the brightest part the centre of the OHP? It may be the bulb gives a little more light to the centre. Alternatively...
The lower part of your screen may be getting hot. Mine darkens as it gets hot until no light can pass. A 120mm cooling fan @ 7V blows air under and over the LCD from the side, its very effective and quiet. 5V may work fine for you.

I did some temperature measurements with a dead panel sat directly on the OHP glass. It reached 50C but the LCD wasnt operating (darker picture absorbs more heat and the LCDs own heat generation counts too). I read some tech specs a while back and (memory withholding) the max operating temp was around 55C for the panel they had.
Try allowing a little air to flow under the LCD by raising it slightly, it may be enough to stop browning. I do recommend a flow of air though for the sake of a longer life panel.
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Home made projector!-max-temp.jpg  
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Last edited by Chernobyl; 9th January, 2005 at 06:16 AM.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernobyl
"The cool stage on the Model 9100 keeps transparency film from curling and prevents harm to LCD projection panels."
I wondered if you could see the cool stage easily.
oh, the stage, thats made out of glass. the main light shines horizontally and then reflects off an slanted mirror so only radiant heat will hit the fresnel lens and glass top panel. i think they mean that with the cool stage the indirect lighting
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesium
oh, the stage, thats made out of glass. the main light shines horizontally and then reflects off an slanted mirror so only radiant heat will hit the fresnel lens and glass top panel. i think they mean that with the cool stage the indirect lighting
Ah yes. I read that those mirrors absorb IR light so in theory dont pass radiated heat to the LCD! Lovely solution.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 06:59 AM
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Thanks for your replies I will surely make one (at least ) but my tempo will no way be as fast as yours are. When you are living here in Novi Sad (Serbia & Montenegro) every purchase via internet is nightmarish. Phhuu...I remember my quest for my Ibanez RG570 which i bought on ebay from Chicago...it was something like 3 months of spear fighting with banks and automated denial servers

But despite all that, i`m gonna give it a big shot! Did you guys noticed any "laws" when buying a OHP? I mean about singles, doubles, triplets...what`s the difference in our story here? And of course lumens. Is it buying a 2000-3000 lumens ohp a waste of money or could be enough? I presume it`s bad, but what do I know

Guys, thanks for all your info, it means a lot for me. Here I can`t go to check it nowhere and you can also imagine how long a wrong shopping and a replacement for it can last from here. Your are a real and one and only source for me now.

And Yeah, somewhere I have few light bulbs named "True Sunlight" "Bright White" or something like that...the key is that bulbs are colored in (when light is off) transparent dark blue, exact complementary colour from volfran yellow. When that two colors mix, (although when on..bulb looks pretty light marine blue) what you get out of it is a really bright and white light. Just than you realize how a classic bulb is realy yellow These bulbs are actually used in photography and anywhere where the fine control on colors is reqiured. I`m saying all that just in case that bulbs or anything of your equipment again starts to grow yellow, maybe you could use filters of that colour. If it`s interesting, check out phillips, i know they surely are making bulbs of this type.

Sure I`ll be around
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 07:10 AM
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Chernobyl, thanks for that link to specs for Cesiums 9100..there it answered my question about lumens, I see that is a 2800 lumens device and the picture in cesium`s video looks nothing less than great!
So, one down...some more to go.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 08:17 AM
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2800 lumens gets the job done, but more would definitely be better to pursue, say, 3500 or so like in THG.

i noticed that my panel in fact was getting a little warmer than i liked, so i popped on a manly fan to ease the temp. the side next to it is room temperature and the other end is slightly warm to the touch

im getting that fuzz again though, its quite annoying to watch a movie like that
maybe it wasnt the lens being off center? i doubt that it moved at all
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 09:58 PM
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NANAOMAN, i dont know if this helps but you can get wireless pc to tv converters like this one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...154154411&rd=1
i presume you can get the sam kinda thing for a vga, if not a converter would bbe needed like im planning to get so i can avoid my pc alltogethher, bbut there not cheap

those mirrors are called cold mirrors, i think, its what people use then they make the compleat diy projector, ie with out the ohp, although i cant vouch for how well they work

p.s my ohp cam wahay
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 9th January, 2005, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearless joe
NANAOMAN, i dont know if this helps but you can get wireless pc to tv converters like this one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...154154411&rd=1
i presume you can get the sam kinda thing for a vga, if not a converter would bbe needed like im planning to get so i can avoid my pc alltogethher, bbut there not cheap

those mirrors are called cold mirrors, i think, its what people use then they make the compleat diy projector, ie with out the ohp, although i cant vouch for how well they work

p.s my ohp cam wahay
Hi
Nice idea Joe.
I wouldnt use that one though as you will get a TV quality (SVHS) picture on your projector.
Quoted from the link
"Q. Will it work with projectors?
A. Check your projector has composite video input PAL – most do!"

This type of device is more suitable but does cost more
http://www.kvms.com/nav/item.asp?item=8959
It may be worth looking around for others.
I used the search term: vga video extender

If you convert your sound optical out to SPDIF line out, you can extend a phono lead down the room and convert back to Optical or if you are lucky and have SPDIF line level in/out, use it directly. Brilliant for taking 5.1 sound long distance. This will give 5.1 sound in DD or DTS movies on any 5.1 system with digital out.
If you have an NForce2 motherboard with Soundstorm, all 5.1 PC sound can be sent via the one cable to your amp.
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2005, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanoman
Thanks for your replies I will surely make one (at least ) but my tempo will no way be as fast as yours are. When you are living here in Novi Sad (Serbia & Montenegro) every purchase via internet is nightmarish. Phhuu...I remember my quest for my Ibanez RG570 which i bought on ebay from Chicago...it was something like 3 months of spear fighting with banks and automated denial servers

But despite all that, i`m gonna give it a big shot! Did you guys noticed any "laws" when buying a OHP? I mean about singles, doubles, triplets...what`s the difference in our story here? And of course lumens. Is it buying a 2000-3000 lumens ohp a waste of money or could be enough? I presume it`s bad, but what do I know

Guys, thanks for all your info, it means a lot for me. Here I can`t go to check it nowhere and you can also imagine how long a wrong shopping and a replacement for it can last from here. Your are a real and one and only source for me now.

And Yeah, somewhere I have few light bulbs named "True Sunlight" "Bright White" or something like that...the key is that bulbs are colored in (when light is off) transparent dark blue, exact complementary colour from volfran yellow. When that two colors mix, (although when on..bulb looks pretty light marine blue) what you get out of it is a really bright and white light. Just than you realize how a classic bulb is realy yellow These bulbs are actually used in photography and anywhere where the fine control on colors is reqiured. I`m saying all that just in case that bulbs or anything of your equipment again starts to grow yellow, maybe you could use filters of that colour. If it`s interesting, check out phillips, i know they surely are making bulbs of this type.

Sure I`ll be around
[Reminder] Started new bulb today!

Hi Nanoman, it seems you need to purchase right first time, not much room for trying parts.

I will be doing a full writeup soon of the whole process and pitfalls. This isnt in time for you, so I'll pass some on now.
Currently there are lists of things to write up about, so I'll do my best to explain each point.
This is going to be long!

for the OHP, you may want to consider the following properties:

Physical size/type
Weight
Cost/supply
Doublet or triplet lense system
Cooling stage?
Power /running cost
Lumens
Low power mode
Loudness
Ease of Mod-ability (12”fresnel+ ease of cutting case, quieter/better fan system)
Lamp type (DIY)
UV spectrum / filter
Lamp cost + availability
Lamp life /running cost
Closed lense system?

I'll cover the ones that arent obvious

Physical Size/Type:
There are a few types to consider based on:
price, power, size, weight, bulb life, loudness, definition, looks

Ideally small, light, powerful, long bulb life, quiet is required but unless you have the money you arent going to achieve all and maybe wont achieve all anyway.
Portables are small but limited in power unless you pay up.
Quiet OHPs tend to be low power
Cheap tend to be low definition (singlet lense system)
Powerful OHPs are usually louder
Looks can cost

Supply/Cost:
You found a supplier for the OHP, you need to make sure you get a good supplier bulbs at the right price. It would be a shame if it was too difficult or costly to run.

Doublet or triplet lense system
Triplet lense systems supposedly produce a sharper image than Doublet.

Cooling stage
Some OHPs have a cooling stage mirror to prevent curling of acetate sheets. Some OHPs may be capable of running an LCD with no cooling on the LCD but It seems unlikely. There is a slight loss of light power going through a cooling stage.
Its possible for an OHP to use an IR filter to reduce radiated heat, I dont know of any that do. Best check the Lumens output of the OHP is suitable.

Power/running cost
Its may be wise to work out how much it is going to cost you per month in electricity to run your OHP. The higher the power, the higher the cost.
In the UK, I have worked out its using 3pence (ish) an hour in low power mode
The cost of running the LCD is very cheap as it runs at even lower power without its backlight.

Lumens
The Power of the lamp doesnt always translate into a standard light power (Lumens). The quality/type of reflector(s), lenses, cooling stage and the lamp type can vary the Lumens for a given power. Lamp type can be ignored unless building your own OHP.
250W systems without any IR filtering seem to hang around 2500 Lumens and 400W about 4000 Lumens.

From all the feedback and reading I have done so far, it seems that 4000 Lumens and higher is desireable. Its not say you couldnt be happy with 2500 Lumens and a top notch screen, it depends what you have acesss to.

Low power mode
Low power mode is handy if you really dont need the brightness so high.
It will save running costs and bulb life.

Loudness
Some OHPs are designed to be quiet in operation. These are usually lower in power/Lumens.

Ease of Mod-ability
A 15" LCD is 12.1" across but the OHP lit area is generally less, down to 10.5" in one case. The Fresnel lense underneath the OHP glass in most cases is over 12", so it makes sense to try and fit the whole screen on without shrinking it.
The area between the glass and the Fresnel lense is an air route. Cold air is drawn in over them before it enters the OHPs main bay. The route is made by parts of the plastic/metal lid hanging down and block the flow of air down the sides of the fresnel lense. To liberate the full size of the LCD, it may be necessary to cut part of these out or play a safer option.
It may be worth inspecting OHPs to see how easily this mod can be accomplished. If it has a metal lid, do you have the tools to do the job?
Can you remove enough material to match the LCD enough without destroying the air routing?
Do you care

Lamp type (DIY)
If you buy an OHP, it will generally be ready for use, you replace the bulb with a known one.
If wanting to mod your OHP or make your own, you must consider the light spectrum the bulb produces (as well as cost, lamp life, light deterioration with age...). I havent researched this fully yet. Do ask if you need more information.

UV spectrum / filter
Your OHP may produce a lot of UV light. I havent quantified this yet, but it might be necessary to fit a UV filter.
From what I have read so far, UV light degrades the colour pigment in the LCD panel and turns the LCD screen brown over time. I dont know how fast this happens yet or if it needs to be considered. For DIY OHP'ers, it would be wise to choose a bulb with lower UV unless adequate filtering can be achieved while keeping Lumens high enough.

Lamp life /running cost
How long the bulb in your OHP lasts is a prime concern for most.
Changing the bulb often isnt desireable and its likely to cost more too.
I have seen some last as little as 65 hours and some that last 100's
Mine last 180 hrs high power, 270hrs low power from the mfrs spec.
Its worth finding how much it costs per bulb and balancing that with how long they last to get the running cost.

Closed lense system
This is the lense and miror that you adjust up and down.
A closed lense system may be useful if you have a dusty environment.

Phew! Any questions?
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Last edited by Chernobyl; 10th January, 2005 at 01:48 AM.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2005, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearless joe
NANAOMAN, i dont know if this helps but you can get wireless pc to tv converters like this one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...154154411&rd=1
i presume you can get the sam kinda thing for a vga, if not a converter would bbe needed like im planning to get so i can avoid my pc alltogethher, bbut there not cheap

those mirrors are called cold mirrors, i think, its what people use then they make the compleat diy projector, ie with out the ohp, although i cant vouch for how well they work

p.s my ohp cam wahay

Thanks Joe, it is really a good idea! I`ll take that in mind...maybe out there is really one that can send clean VGA signal...
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Old 10th January, 2005, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernobyl
Phew! Any questions?
Yes, maybe in few days You gave me so much info to fill that time...thanks again man
Great find also for that VGA extender, just now i saw it! But...it is really high priced. I think I`ll go for something less money absorbing.

I go to study carefully on that last post of yours, you got the point..second buying is not an option, thanks for this
REspects for your effort, You really are something....
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2005, 05:51 AM
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is it possible to upgrade the wattage in my ohp without spending more money than a quick wiring job? move it from its current 360watts to say 400 or more?
obviously a new bulb would be required
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Old 10th January, 2005, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesium
is it possible to upgrade the wattage in my ohp without spending more money than a quick wiring job? move it from its current 360watts to say 400 or more?
obviously a new bulb would be required
Maybe but there are risks.
A higher power bulb will generate more heat and may not last very long.
The lighting components may not be designed to exceed the current rated power + heat levels, the electrics could get damaged.
The new bulb you get may be a different fitting/shape/size/light shade. Sticking with the same type of bulb from the same manufacturer should help.
The size and shape of the bulb may require a different bulb reflector.

Its worth giving it a shot with a good screen if you are after more brightness.
It sorted me out

Another worthy note: After watching the life end of 2 bulbs, the picture does darken with a yellow tint. This became noticeable towards the end of their lives. It still looks marvellous, just dont look at your normal monitor first I imagine a similar thing will happen with your bulb and projectors too.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 10th January, 2005, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanoman
Yes, maybe in few days You gave me so much info to fill that time...thanks again man
Great find also for that VGA extender, just now i saw it! But...it is really high priced. I think I`ll go for something less money absorbing.

I go to study carefully on that last post of yours, you got the point..second buying is not an option, thanks for this
REspects for your effort, You really are something....
My pleasure
Good luck!
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Old 11th January, 2005, 04:40 AM
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i STILL cannot get rid of my blur issue... the whole screen is in focus, but only the bottom portion is clear of an upward directing white haze

i'm gonna scratch that power upgrade idea since i think i might get a new ohp

oh and i ordered a screen off ebay so that should come around friday
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Old 12th January, 2005, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesium
i STILL cannot get rid of my blur issue... the whole screen is in focus, but only the bottom portion is clear of an upward directing white haze

i'm gonna scratch that power upgrade idea since i think i might get a new ohp

oh and i ordered a screen off ebay so that should come around friday

Hi Cesium
I'm not sure if you have the same issue I used to.
I found that by raising the back of the LCD a bit higher than the front, I was able to get better focus across the whole screen.
Prior to that, I could focus the top or the bottom or have slightly defocused whole screen with the very centre in focus.

Can you focus either the top or bottom? Or is the white haze there regardless?

Well done with the screen, which one did you order?

Oh yes, I just plugged in my old WinTV card (I dont have video in on my gfx card). It now does up to 768x576 res!
It captures video and audio using DivX or XVid and MP3 sound.
I'm using a Video Recorder as the Tuner (rather than the card cos its rubbish) using SVHS input to the card. Its not possible to capture at full res while watching at the same time, but 640x480 with DivX set to HDTV 4:3 works brilliantly.
Using these settings: MP3 is 56Kb/s non configurable and sounds fine, Video is 895Kb/s.
File size is excellent, nearly 8MB/minute
I have attached a small sample. You will need DivX5 or another decoder installed to play it back.

The WinTV card uses the Video drivers Full Screen Video settings. This means I can play with WinTV on the monitor while watching full screen on the Projector. Maaaaarvellous.
The quality of the TV picture is amazing for the size. I didnt really expect it to be useable, but it truly is.
Attached Files
File Type: zip small advert capture.zip (1.64 MB, 116 views)
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2.9m DIY home made LCD PC projector !
Venice 3000+ (1.8GHz) @ 2.7GHz, 1.4V
Stock air cooler
X1800XT clocked to PE
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