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Old 5th September, 2005, 01:52 AM
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Car Speakers

I'm looking to replace the speakers in my car, which are blown. I'm also considering replacing the stereo that it has now with something else.

The requirements are simple:

The car is a '98 Mercury Sable GS.
The front and rear speakers are 6"x8".
Current stereo is the standard Ford P.O.S.

I don't want anything extravagant. I just want to be able to listen to my Metal the way it should be listened to, which is to say with enough bottom end to get the punch from the kick drums and enough top end to keep those guitars crisp, without having distortion that shouldn't be there. I don't need (or want) to have it so loud that my ears bleed and my neighbors call the police, nor am I looking to be able to propel the car by the power of sound alone. I just want a nice aural experience in my ride.

And I'm cheap. Which is to say I want the best bang for the buck. Plus, I'd just as soon not have to run new wiring.

It's been a long, LONG time since I shopped for audio gear, so have any of you guys got any recommendations?
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Old 5th September, 2005, 02:05 AM
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Alpine / Blaupunkt / BOSE has always been my favourite. Just gave the bimmer a new Blaupunkt skyline head unit and some BOSE speakers, but really everyone likes their own stereo gear and says everyone else's is rubbish. Its a matter of taste really. I just trust Alpine / Blaupunkt / BOSE because they have always had the contracts for high end cars (ferrari, porsche, lamborghini) and have a long term good rep.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 02:06 AM
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I went through this a little while ago also.

The advice I got from an audio eng. was to put your money into the speakers and don't worry so much about the head unit. I only had one criteria for the player and that was that it had to play MP3's. I found a pretty decent one for $165.00. I paid about the same for the set of speakers which were a set of 6 X 9 Coaxial Cerwinvegas.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsio
Alpine / Blaupunkt / BOSE has always been my favourite. Just gave the bimmer a new Blaupunkt skyline head unit and some BOSE speakers, but really everyone likes their own stereo gear and says everyone else's is rubbish. Its a matter of taste really. I just trust Alpine / Blaupunkt / BOSE because they have always had the contracts for high end cars (ferrari, porsche, lamborghini) and have a long term good rep.
Bose does not sell componet parts last time I looked.... They used to sell car speakers but the last time they had them was in the early 70's. The systems you see in cars these days are developed for that spacific car and would not sound anywhere as good if removed from one car and placed in another. You can believe me on this one as I worked for Bose for 3 years here in Columbia, SC. We have one of their production plants here (Blythewood) and also used to have a large sales office as well. I can't tell you the number of times I had to inform people of this over the phone.

Blaupunkt kicks butt..... I wish I could afford one....
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Old 5th September, 2005, 02:14 AM
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if you are really on a tight budget, go for Jenson speakers. You wont hear too many people admit it, but a lot of times they sound a lot better than the lower lines of more expencive brands. If you want bass you will need at least a small sub to satify you most likely.

Just head to your local store and try out a bunch of different speakers.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 02:59 AM
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Old 5th September, 2005, 03:58 AM
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isnt 6x8 an oddball size?
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Old 5th September, 2005, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Man
Bose does not sell componet parts last time I looked.... They used to sell car speakers but the last time they had them was in the early 70's. The systems you see in cars these days are developed for that spacific car and would not sound anywhere as good if removed from one car and placed in another. You can believe me on this one as I worked for Bose for 3 years here in Columbia, SC. We have one of their production plants here (Blythewood) and also used to have a large sales office as well. I can't tell you the number of times I had to inform people of this over the phone.

Blaupunkt kicks butt..... I wish I could afford one....
Im using consumer audio BOSE speakers. All the speaker positions in my car are 6" 8" and 10" round rather than 6x9s, so it made sense. The only decent 8" and 10" speakers that our local had were sony Xplodes which I am not too fond of. Ive got a thing about putting japanese stuff in a european car.

I was worried that consumer audio gear would not stand up to the heat etc but I was garunteed they would be fine so I took them.

The Blaupunkt skyline is insane but it really needs an amp I think. Im just using the onboard amp right now, which is pretty good to be honest, but something dedicated is on the cards soon as I can pick up a matching blaupunkt amp off ebay for cheap. No subwoofer at this point either.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsio
Im using consumer audio BOSE speakers. All the speaker positions in my car are 6" 8" and 10" round rather than 6x9s, so it made sense. The only decent 8" and 10" speakers that our local had were sony Xplodes which I am not too fond of. Ive got a thing about putting japanese stuff in a european car.

I was worried that consumer audio gear would not stand up to the heat etc but I was garunteed they would be fine so I took them.

The Blaupunkt skyline is insane but it really needs an amp I think. Im just using the onboard amp right now, which is pretty good to be honest, but something dedicated is on the cards soon as I can pick up a matching blaupunkt amp off ebay for cheap. No subwoofer at this point either.
If you have those just hanging in the back deck you may want to do a little reading up on ported enclosures. The one thing that Bose spends a lot of time doing is matching cones to spatial dimension and porting of the reverse waves that come from the backs of their speakers. I'm sure they sound good and use the trunk space for some backpressure but I bet you could get them to really rock if they were ported in some manner.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 05:19 AM
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Blaupunkt or alpine (I have these) for speakers, and probably JVC for a cheap good sounding head unit. I have an older one (first of the MP3 ones) and it puts enough sound out I don't need an amp, but with 1 - 4 channel and 1 - 2 channel amp with 2 small subs, and while the music isn't loud (I don't crank it, it will do in excess of 150 db), its better than most peoples home units for quality. You want to make sure you buy component speakers, not 3-way 4-way or whatever.

While you say you don't want loud, you want speakers that can, as they have better response, and quality, decent speakers, amp and sub are more important than a head unit, but you do need decent quality from that as well.

As for the wiring, check the wires, if they are crappy, thin, old looking, you will have to change them just for the quality, and it can mean alot of quality. I spent about 4x the time re-wiring the speakers than putting them, the amp, and head unit in, and it was well worth the effort. You would do well with shielded cables and earth the shielding.

Best bang for buck

alpine component speakers
buy shielded multicore wire - 21 gauge (5mm)
JVC head unit - min 4 x 50W

extra's:
4 channel amp for speakers - alpine
1 or 2 channel amp for sub(s) - alpine (head unit should have seperate sub out with volume control)
Sub
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Old 5th September, 2005, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsio
Alpine / Blaupunkt / BOSE has always been my favourite. Just gave the bimmer a new Blaupunkt skyline head unit and some BOSE speakers, but really everyone likes their own stereo gear and says everyone else's is rubbish. Its a matter of taste really. I just trust Alpine / Blaupunkt / BOSE because they have always had the contracts for high end cars (ferrari, porsche, lamborghini) and have a long term good rep.
There is a 7 speaker Bose system in my Escalade!!! sounds absolutely AWSOME!! I play Metalica on it every now and then and I godda say..... those sell outs sound truely amazing!!
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Old 5th September, 2005, 07:58 AM
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YAY for metal bands.

dsio: Any chance of seeing some photos of your car? Interior and exterior. Im curious what this machine that you appear to spend so much playing with looks like.

While we are on the subject of car speakers. Im about to get my license, so my Dad (partly due to health reasons) gave me his car. A 1996 Ford Futura. It has just a standard tape deck. I want to replace it with a CD/MP3 player a decent set of speakers in the rear, and what ever else I need. Im new to this stuff so what am I looking at. I just what a something that doesnt distort when it gets loud. Complete car sound kit, what do I need?
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Old 5th September, 2005, 08:10 AM
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dont really have a camera sadly, but it is not much to look at right now. Its in bits again while I do some cleaning and replacing. I think I will completely strip it and get it resprayed now rather than later as I had planned since I am halfway there already. The gloss black is just too hard to clean and keep even. It looks beautiful when it is wet or polished, but then a bird always craps on it.

Im changing the colour only slightly to a gunmetal grey mica, which is one of those colours that looks better the filthier the paint and the wheels are. Filth is good

And yea SM, I have been working on that, but at this point I still do not know if I will be keeping everything the way it is or changing the mountings and adding a sub. I have a family member that builds amps and speaker boxes so I wont have any problems.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 08:24 AM
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Nice. Sound like a nice car! Its a BMW...what model?

No ideas about what I should get? I dont even know the names of all the parts I need.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondog
Nice. Sound like a nice car! Its a BMW...what model?

No ideas about what I should get? I dont even know the names of all the parts I need.
Depends on your budget.

But as said before:

Speakers (not 6x9 or 3-way) Including Subs:
Blaupunkt
Alpine

Head Deck (50W x 4 min):
Blaupunkt
JVC
Alpine

GET 21 Gauge (5mm diameter) multi core, shielded, O2 free, wire

AMP:
For speakers 4-way 250W RMS min
For Sub 2-way 250W RMS min
Blaupunkt
Alpine

You want speakers that can at least do what the amp is rated for. You do get what you pay for! Components always have a better sound than composite, and a decent amp, wire, and head unit does help with sound quality.

Component speakers - have 1 larger midrange speaker and 1 small tweeter

Head deck - where you stick the cd's in - controls the volume, etc - get a MP3 player don't bother with a stacker

Sub - Large base speakers

Wire - self explanatory

Amp - amplifier, modern head deck will have non amped out, and these plug into the amp via RCA leads (same connector as video out on DVD player to TV), which then increases the level of sound output. Volume, base, trebble, is still controlled from the head deck, and some have seperate Sub out which has it's own seperate volume level
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Old 5th September, 2005, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob
Depends on your budget.

But as said before:

Speakers (not 6x9 or 3-way) Including Subs:
Blaupunkt
Alpine

Head Deck (50W x 4 min):
Blaupunkt
JVC
Alpine

GET 21 Gauge (5mm diameter) multi core, shielded, O2 free, wire

AMP:
For speakers 4-way 250W RMS min
For Sub 2-way 250W RMS min
Blaupunkt
Alpine

You want speakers that can at least do what the amp is rated for. You do get what you pay for! Components always have a better sound than composite, and a decent amp, wire, and head unit does help with sound quality.

Component speakers - have 1 larger midrange speaker and 1 small tweeter

Head deck - where you stick the cd's in - controls the volume, etc - get a MP3 player don't bother with a stacker

Sub - Large base speakers

Wire - self explanatory

Amp - amplifier, modern head deck will have non amped out, and these plug into the amp via RCA leads (same connector as video out on DVD player to TV), which then increases the level of sound output. Volume, base, trebble, is still controlled from the head deck, and some have seperate Sub out which has it's own seperate volume level
Why not 6x9 or 3-way or speakers?

What do you mean about the amp? How you said..."modern head deck will have non amped out"? I dont understand. The RCA part i get though.

OK. With the speakers. Wont it look weird with two different speaker sizes? Or get the larger midrange speakers in the back, and tweeters in the front?
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Old 5th September, 2005, 09:46 AM
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UK view here: Alpine, Kenwood and Pioneer generally (! exceptions do occur !) do pretty good speakers/headunits. Blaupunkt seem to produce some pretty average headunits (like Sony), and only the clueless highstreet places seem to sell their speakers. Very few specalist ICE places sell Blaupunkt in the UK.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 09:54 AM
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Yeah, I have heard those three are top brands.
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Old 5th September, 2005, 09:54 AM
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I have the Harmen Karden upgrade package in my BMW, which includes speakers, amp and subwoofer, the damn speakers on the rear shelf blow when turned up too loud
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Old 5th September, 2005, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob
You want speakers that can at least do what the amp is rated for. You do get what you pay for! Components always have a better sound than composite, and a decent amp, wire, and head unit does help with sound quality.
Actually, you want an amp that is rated higher than the speakers. Having an amp that is only just big enough for the speakers (or too small) tends to result in more dead speakers than an amp that is rated higher. I know this sounds backwards, but there is a lot of sense when you realise what happens.

If you push an amp into clipping (IE, you're asking it for more power than it can deliver) then the high frequency content shoots upwards as distortion occurs. Speaker systems are designed to handle around 70-80% of the power in the bass section, and the other 20-30% spread between the mid and highs - with the highs getting the correspondly small amount (often as little as 5%). When distortion occurs that spread changes, and large amounts of power end up at the high end due to the distortion. That means the tweaters are suddenly seeing much larger amounts of power than they're designed to handle and they tend to overheat and die.

Generally an amplifier specified to be ten times as large as the speakers can handle is fine. Speakers can handle transient overloads (even to the point of multiple times their continuous rating) for short periods of time with no issues, which allows the good reproduction of things like snare and kick drums. You also need to ensure that the system is well set up.

When it comes to amps and speakers, remember that if you want a slight increase in apparent volume, you need twice as much power.
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