AOA Forums AOA Forums AOA Forums Folding For Team 45 AOA Files Home Front Page Become an AOA Subscriber! UserCP Calendar Memberlist FAQ Search Forum Home


Go Back   AOA Forums > Hardware > Graphics and Sound cards; Speakers and other Peripherals


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 04:54 AM
tiamat63's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: July 2005
Location: O-H!!
Posts: 1,442

High end is where the battle is fought....

Mid range to entry market cards is exactly where the war is won.

I myself have never owned an Nvidia product beyond the GF3 series, why? 9700pro Personally I do not credit ATI or Nvidia with multi-use GPU's. That is something 3DFX was doing with the voodoo and WAS getting double the preformance, SLI and crossfire, of course new in the fact that their using PCI-E, other than that, its an older concept that didnt have the steam to be pushed to market at the time.

As long as ATI has the contract for the 360, the huge OEM deal with Dell and still ships volumes of cards to Emachine, HP, Packard Bell etc... I'm not worried about ATI's future. Yes their stock has depreciated a little, but then again when the FX line was the top card for the guys in green, their shares were hurting as well. I also have no company loyalty, but I have my x800 b/c I could unlock it, overclock it, single slot solution and lower power requirements than the 6800 series.

My prediction: The R520 will be a bandaid for this generation, bringing the difference between the 7800gtx and ATI's lineup very close. Now, since Nvidia's had some time to perfect the 7800, and not like it was a huge developmental push, I believe they are turning their focus to the R580, seeing as how the last time they felt king of the hill, some little piece of hardware called the R300 came the hell out of nowhere.

My Wish: Somebody needs to bring back 3DFX or make Matrox more competitive, having GPU's at the current prices is ridiculous. I remember getting an 8500 brand new for $199, which was ATI's first great card.
Then, the 9700 comes, double the preformance, but double the freaking price at $399.

Bottom line: As long as these types of threads and debates and suggestions reach the word of these respectable companies, new technologies are always driving forward, giving the gaming comunity and the low end user what they want, effectively driving down prices.....we...the people...win in the long run
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 05:02 AM
Member/Contributor/Resident Crystal Ball
 
Join Date: March 2004
Posts: 7,451

Looks like current benches were with a x1800XL only boys, not the X1800XT.

Another point for ATI and cadaveca!

I said Sander would be in trouble, right? Now you know why...


I mean really...how right have i been so far?


LoL. TSMC provides it's services with a yeild-percentage guarantee... Suckers!
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 05:15 AM
Pitch's Avatar
AOA Staff
Asteroids Champion, Maeda Path Champion, Disco Racer Champion, Alpha Bravo Charlie Champion, Van Champion
 
Join Date: February 2004
Location: The cake is a lie.
Posts: 5,025
Send a message via MSN to Pitch

I can't wait to see the full XT in action.
__________________


XBL/PNS = neolad
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 06:12 AM
saquib's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: August 2005
Location: Dhaka
Posts: 209
Send a message via MSN to saquib

Arrow

>> It doesnt matter what ati/nvidia has in their labs as long as they dont bring it in the market. evaluation of being ahead is simple - whoever has the edge on prenet market. u cant compare two companies using probability of wat they "may" have to come with in future. up to the latest hardware nVidia has always proved to be efficient, shader models or SLI - nVidia has always been ahead, and dat cleary reasons my statement. if u want to evaluate on future companies, wait till they are released on market and the products arive. ofcourse, ATI can have more background on next directx for working with microsoft in 360 project, but watever that is - its noteven in the market, u look at the stuffs dat are new in marlet , and who's bringing them in.

another point on nVidia being slower with PS3, than ATI with xbox 360: the simple reason is, everyone has to say PlayStation 3 is much more powerful and compex to build thanx 360 - it has a totaly new technology "cell" powering it, with something that is much different than PC hardrware. M$ on the otherhadn still would use their DirectX 9L or watever its called kind of stuffs - its better, but its really not much of a revolution comparing to PS3. Im sure when PS3 comes out, it'd speak for itself just how exactly did it take so long to launch - and ppl already kno it will beat 360 wen it comes to hardrware specs (let alone gameplay). btw, nVidia is "not" behind in making RSX - they did design the system, and certainly RSX is NOT teh reason why PS3 laucnh in delayed you cant say PS3 laucnhing later meazns nVidia is slow in development, you could blame sony. obviously the graphics would be betetr on PS3 (nVidia) than 360 (ATi) - regardless of wat they developed, the reason why u cant say nVidia or ATi is ahead on hsi is simpley both products are annoucned in market almost in the same time, noe of them have been released, and two are completely different platform. besides, nvidia's calibrition with CELL is much "newer" (better) technology than ATi's with PowerPC cpus.

fight with nvdia / ati would never lead anywhere - but given simple facts infront, i dont find a reason how one can NOT agree that nVidia has been ahead in technology (and they have been for a very long time!).
__________________

Last edited by saquib; 18th September, 2005 at 06:31 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 06:17 AM
Member/Contributor/Resident Crystal Ball
 
Join Date: March 2004
Posts: 7,451

You are missing the point. The public, retail, amounts for less than 33% of the entire market. What you and I see has already been bought and sold time and again, between the project lead, the designer, the developer, the manufacturer, the assembler, the packager, teh shipper, the distributor...the OEM...and then it MIGHT hit retail in large samples. Top card doesn't matter. It's the quadro and GL lines that matter, not the XT's and GTX's. Retail gets the bottom of the barrel. Priorities also lay there when it comes to retail.


Priorities stay where the money is. It's understanding this that makes the big guy's succesful, because someone has to pay to make the concept become a product.
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 07:30 AM
Member/Contributor/Resident Crystal Ball
 
Join Date: March 2004
Posts: 7,451

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitch
Well, Pitch, here ya go.
Quote:
First off the Sil 1161 receiver simply receives the pixel data from the slave board. That data is sent to the compositing engine, which then takes the final frame/s and sends it to either its built in TMDS transmitter or the RAMDAC, both of which can handle 2048x1536 @ 85 Hz. The Sil 1161 has NOTHING to do with the refresh rate of the screen that is connected to the master card. So, at the very least, CrossFire users can enjoy refresh rates on CRT monitors greater than 60 Hz at resolutions above 1600x1200 because that is based on the transmitters on the master card, which are essentially identical to every other standalone, high-end ATI card. You can find the refresh/pixel specs at the ATi website.

What we are basically talking about here is bandwidth between the slave card and the master card. Something else to take into account is that the DVI standard assumes that the cable will be at least a meter long between the transmitter and the receiver. In CrossFire the cable between the slave and master cards will most likely be around 10 cm long at most. ATI could very well have tweaked the 1161 to increase its bandwidth. But even if the chip itself is stock, we are still only dealing with this problem as bandwidth.

The receiver can handle 1600x1200 @ 60 Hz, which means that it can receive 60 frames of 1600x1200 pixel content per second. When used with the output of the master card, this can give a theoretical maximum of 120 fps at 1600x1200 resolution when using alternating frames. Most high quality 21" CRTs can usually handle a maximum of 100 Hz at 1600x1200, so using AFR with v-sync enabled, 100 fps is theoretically achievable (depending on the application of course).
slightly edited by me, of course.
http://www.penstarsys.com/#xfire_sil

I have more news in the wings tho...




"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive...."



__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 08:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: September 2005
Location: India -- Land of the Sages
Posts: 76

Well beyond pure speculation and hype that wer'e dong right now ...all
we can do is hope that ATI brings in a worthy competitor to 7800 GTX and SLI. Because the only people who are gonna benefit from the competition are the end -users ...myself being one of them . ( Hoping the price of the 7800 Gt falls by a 100$ or so when ATi releases their new card ).
As i said before ,it would be awesome if NVIDIA or ATI bought out AGEIA and integrated Physics also onto their chipsets.Could give them an edge ,save us the hassle of buying two cards and it could be cheaper.

Truly Crazy Scenario : Intel decides it wants the entire graphics chipset market and comes in guns blazing ??????????
No more NVIDA and ATi and this thread would be a dead fish in the water
__________________
Its the things that we're not supposed to do that matters ..not the things that we can do !!!


AOA Team fah

Last edited by tripo; 18th September, 2005 at 08:35 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 08:56 AM
Pitch's Avatar
AOA Staff
Asteroids Champion, Maeda Path Champion, Disco Racer Champion, Alpha Bravo Charlie Champion, Van Champion
 
Join Date: February 2004
Location: The cake is a lie.
Posts: 5,025
Send a message via MSN to Pitch

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
Besides...16 pipes almost equal to the performance of 24 of nVidia's...that's 1/3 less pipes...i think that ATI is doing great, in that regard.
Oh so true.
__________________


XBL/PNS = neolad
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 05:06 PM
tiamat63's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: July 2005
Location: O-H!!
Posts: 1,442

Intel obviously doesnt have to move to high end graphics market...
However In some interviews of Intel's developers and designers, they mave have hinted that pushing forward into the production of their own top line GPU may be a factor there looking at for 07-08.

I'm still sticking by the hope 3DFX somehow comes back
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 05:13 PM
danrok's Avatar
AOA Staff
 
Join Date: March 2003
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 18,917

I don't know if it would be good to have more than two main GPU manufacturers. Software and driver support starts to become an issue. It can be an issue with just ATI and nVidia dominating. The quality of in-game support may fall with 3 or more brands.
__________________
Desktop PC: AMD FX-8370E / Asus M5A99X Evo R2.0 Motherboard / 16GB DDR3 RAM / GeForce GTX 970
AOA Team fah
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 07:48 PM
Member/Contributor/Resident Crystal Ball
 
Join Date: March 2004
Posts: 7,451

Yeah, but those problems come from lax programmers, not the hardware itself, most often. You got to remember that all shaders and brushes use a basic command language provided by the manufacturer. The R600, for example, has had it's driver in the works since about july last year, if i have my timing right(they were hiring for the position in march). There are always updates to drivers, becasue there is always new software running on them. New drivers break old applications, and vice-versa, only becasue each driver is really just application specific, when it all boils down, because each programmer is responsible for thier own shaders.

And it's this that breaks things. it's not ATi's code or nVidia's code that breaks things, but the games themselves, for whatever reason. Each GPU manufacturer has it's own way of doing things tho, so this is why support(and the root of the problems) from the GPU maker in resolving programming issues before release is so important, and why we have the "TWIWMTBP" and "Get in the GAME!" slogans when this support is given, and why most benchmarks are just crap marketing to begin with. Each game, because of the GPU maker support, is naturally going to run better on thier hardware.

It's quite possible that If there were more GPU makers, there would be more available support for software developers, and hence a better, more competitive market.
__________________

Last edited by cadaveca; 18th September, 2005 at 07:55 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 07:54 PM
Daniel ~'s Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Seattle Wa.
Posts: 45,606

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
Looks like current benches were with a x1800XL only boys, not the X1800XT.

Another point for ATI and cadaveca!

I said Sander would be in trouble, right? Now you know why...


I mean really...how right have i been so far?


LoL. TSMC provides it's services with a yeild-percentage guarantee... Suckers!
I'll work harder on being as impressed with you as you are! ":O}

{sometimes it helps to see ourselves from another point of view...":O}
__________________
"Though all men live in ignorance before mystery,
they need not live in darkness...
Justice is foundation and Mercy ETERNAL
."
DKE

"All that we do is touched by Ocean
Yet we remain on the shore of what we know."
Richard Wilbur

[img]/forum/attachments/random-nonsense/16515-sigs-dan_drag.jpg[/img]
Subscribers! Ask Pitch about a Custom Sig Graphic

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 07:57 PM
Member/Contributor/Resident Crystal Ball
 
Join Date: March 2004
Posts: 7,451

I can wear my pride as a badge because i have done good, not bad. At least i'm not selling myself for marketing, and blatantly lying.
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 08:03 PM
madcatmk3's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: August 2005
Location: New York, United States of America
Posts: 2,213

Nvidas true loss is that they went with sony in the PS3 and the cell not the xbox. but Nvidias still a bigger company. The one thing that would be a total victory for eather company would be to be able to make their new cards cheap like an 8900 GTX (maby some time in the future) clocked at 600 MHz 512 mb only $250 everony would be using them for SLI so nvida makes more money and sells more prducts or ican be ATI eith there dual GPU config ethier way if one caompny can make it chap and have dual GPU's it will come back to them later.
__________________
Alienware
3.2 Ghz
1 GB ram
4-4-4-12
160GB
256 MB 6800GT 413/1102
Main Rig
AMD 4000+ 2772 MHz w/ DFI SLI DR
2GB Corsair XMS (with LED's of course)@ 2.5-3-2-11 @ 240MHz
250GB HDD SATA2
Xfi-64MB X-Ram
WMCE
7800GTX OC-516(+40Mhz Delta clock)/1300
AOA Team fah
"The motherboard installation section essentially said "refer to motherboard manual for installation instructions". My motherboard manual of course said "refer to case manual for further installation instructions"."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 08:08 PM
Daniel ~'s Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Seattle Wa.
Posts: 45,606

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
I can wear my pride as a badge because i have done good, not bad. At least i'm not selling myself for marketing, and blatantly lying.
Perhaps you might trust us to see that and if in agreement assert that for you?

(PSSST. "Pride walks before the fall...":O}

No big deal either way.
__________________
"Though all men live in ignorance before mystery,
they need not live in darkness...
Justice is foundation and Mercy ETERNAL
."
DKE

"All that we do is touched by Ocean
Yet we remain on the shore of what we know."
Richard Wilbur

[img]/forum/attachments/random-nonsense/16515-sigs-dan_drag.jpg[/img]
Subscribers! Ask Pitch about a Custom Sig Graphic

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 09:22 PM
Member/Contributor/Resident Crystal Ball
 
Join Date: March 2004
Posts: 7,451

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel ~
Perhaps you might trust us to see that and if in agreement assert that for you?

(PSSST. "Pride walks before the fall...":O}

No big deal either way.






You are correct.
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 09:24 PM
Daniel ~'s Avatar
Chief BBS Administrator
 
Join Date: September 2001
Location: Seattle Wa.
Posts: 45,606

Hey it happens! Even to me!! ":O}
__________________
"Though all men live in ignorance before mystery,
they need not live in darkness...
Justice is foundation and Mercy ETERNAL
."
DKE

"All that we do is touched by Ocean
Yet we remain on the shore of what we know."
Richard Wilbur

[img]/forum/attachments/random-nonsense/16515-sigs-dan_drag.jpg[/img]
Subscribers! Ask Pitch about a Custom Sig Graphic

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 09:25 PM
Member/Contributor/Resident Crystal Ball
 
Join Date: March 2004
Posts: 7,451

It's all just a marketing soap opera, anyway.


I jsut wish that all the negative inaccuracies weren't so prevalent. It's very hard to decide on future purchases honestly with this sort of crap going on. I can't help but feel a bit vindicated.
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 18th September, 2005, 11:24 PM
dsio's Avatar
Steve Jobs
 
Join Date: October 2002
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Posts: 8,037

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
I can wear my pride as a badge because i have done good, not bad. At least i'm not selling myself for marketing, and blatantly lying.
He's just lucky he lives in Canadia, where all the action is!

The ATI employees, head to the local tavern after a hard day of drinking and video card curling at the office (Ever wondered why the R520 took so long?) and spill their beans.

Every Canadian wants ATI to be a success. For too long now, their nation's crowning achievement has been Celine Dion, and they need a new poster child.

Lets just hope they do a good job of this thing

Array Technologies Inc (ATI) Forever!


--- By the way, 3DFX is alive and well. In the belly of Nvidia.

"Dun, Dun, Dun, Dun DaDun, Dun DaDun"
__________________
Notebook: Apple Macbook Pro 13" i7 2.7Ghz (3.4Ghz max) 8GB DDR3 1333Mhz (Mac OSX 10.6.7)
Desktop: ASUS Rampage Formula X48
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 (Yorkfield) @ 3.60Ghz (Folding SMP Linux)
Running Fedora 15 Linux (GNOME 3)
Dual Dell 2407WFP
AOA Team fah

Drivers, Games, Demos, Mods and Overclocking Tools At AOAFiles
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 19th September, 2005, 06:06 AM
Member/Contributor/Resident Crystal Ball
 
Join Date: March 2004
Posts: 7,451

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...CrossfireTruth

It's stuff like this, actually, this exact thing, that got me going in the first place...

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...ireTruth-1.jpg
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nvidia G70 GrahamGarside Graphics and Sound cards; Speakers and other Peripherals 73 14th June, 2005 08:40 PM
Nvidia G70 oliveryochest Graphics and Sound cards; Speakers and other Peripherals 6 23rd May, 2005 09:59 PM
Well Done Nvidia!!!!!!!!!! Kaitain OS, Software, Firmware, and BIOS 12 14th August, 2004 08:04 PM
Nvidia 2.45 New-b EPoX MotherBoards 17 2nd August, 2003 02:43 PM
nVidia Ate AMD :( whatever AMD Motherboards & CPUs 12 8th April, 2002 06:58 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:55 AM.


Copyright ©2001 - 2010, AOA Forums
Don't Click Here Don't Click Here Either

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0