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Old 15th July, 2006, 06:26 PM
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DailyTech reports on Mark Rein's (Epic Games) objections to Intel's integrated graphi

"Epic Games boss Mark Rein has it in for Intel

From DailyTech:
Just when you thought Intel was having sitting proud with its new Core 2 Duo/Extreme processors which are turning out to be quite the gaming chip, here comes an attack from a totally different angle. When it comes to PC gaming, Epic Games Co-Founder Mark Rein has an axe to grind with Intel. Rein took Intel to task over heavily promoting its integrated graphics offerings on the desktop and notebook front that are far inferior to the latest in graphics technology used by ATI and NVIDIA."


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So what do you think? Is it valid for software to complain that some hardware shouldn't be made?
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Old 15th July, 2006, 06:49 PM
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I think he is complaining that Intel is marketing what is essentially crap, as an all-singing-all-dancing graphics card which is super fast and can play new games, when, frankly, it can't.

But people believe the marketing and developers get swamped with people complaining that they can't play the game on their Intel graphics chips.

Now, if those people knew that intel didn't work, they would look to buy a PC with a decent chip when they came to buy one, and have maybe a slower CPU or les RAM, but could actually play the game.
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Old 15th July, 2006, 06:50 PM
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100% valid. In the same way it is vaild for some one who drives a car to complain the road was badly built.

If Intel fill people's homes with systems which have poor graphics, then where does that leave everyone else? They could kill the PC gaming market all together.

It can get worse, if these systems have no AGP or PCI-E slots for add-on video cards.
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Old 15th July, 2006, 07:09 PM
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Really does seem short sighted of Intel. Games DO sell a lot of PC's, chips and cards. If Intel consistently disappoints consumers in this area, Intel, I think will suffer more from it than gamers in the long run....?
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Old 15th July, 2006, 07:13 PM
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It's not so much that they are pants at anything other than desktop work, but that Intel markets them as though they are.

I think Intel makes money from it in the short term, but eventually people are going to get annoyed, thinking "I have the latest and greatest, and why won't it work?"
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Old 15th July, 2006, 08:19 PM
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Rubbish GPUs have a place. Awesome GPUs have a place.

In a laptop, I want the cheapest, crappiest, most basic GPU possible. I want shared memory, I want no 3d support past extremely basic hardware T&L, and I want it to use less power than a cheap mouse.

Its a laptop. I want it to use no power. Now, I believe high end laptop GPUs are as pointless as they are expensive, as no matter how much money you dump into your laptop, its still rubbish as a gaming machine, due to the nature of the device, it means less battery life, and more weight and heat.

The in-between stuff. The ATI 9200 / X300 / Intel high end laptop GPUs are the worst of the lot. It tries to be special, but it doesn't get there, it just performs like crap, and that performing like crap, costs you power, heat, and money.

For desktops, great, have good graphics cards. But for laptops, just don't bother.
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Old 15th July, 2006, 10:24 PM
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Maybe the issue isnt what they sell but that people dont know what they are buying.

Intel dont give information that is straight forward to understand and the innocent consumer is duped by the hype of other technologies in the PC.
So many people have busy lives and dont want to read up on technical specs to understand what they are buying and they shouldnt have to if the information is presented at the time of sale.
Intel prey on the consumers trust by neglecting to tell them what they really need to know.
.
Intel should make it clear what the system is capable of (as should all manufacturers) and what consumers need to do to attain higher performance where it is lacking. They need to specify what the capabilities of the system are for the different types of use a PC has.
If the machine is incapable of exceeding its current spec (ie it has integrated graphics and no AGP or PCI-e ports) then the consumer should be made well aware of this too.

Anyone who sells sub par components usually makes the sales through deception/hiding the facts. Intel are clearly guilty of this and being in such a prominent position, it is unnacceptable they are allowed to get away with it.
Its a dirty game playing with peoples trust and money, Intel should be ashamed.

Maybe Vistas rating tool will help put an end to this practice.
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Old 15th July, 2006, 11:14 PM
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Maybe we shouldn't be so hard on Intel marketing. They did make the Internet go faster!!

I think it's just plain stupid of Intel to misrepresent it's product line. Because it's un-necessary.

The experienced research or have found a friend to advice them. The newbie is already a lamb to the slaughter!

Laying it out like it is, allowing or actually helping the consumer to meet their mark when buying, builds consumer loyalty when nothing else will!

Just on the bases of what dsio posted, I'd buy from him and return to him?? WHY??

Because he told what the trade off was. Told what I'd have to pay if I insisted that my laptop be a toy, something dsio just told me, it really isn't built to be....as of yet...

I don't guess I'm the only one to buy a part that didn't do what they said it would...stays with you a long time hey?
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Old 16th July, 2006, 02:06 AM
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acualy I think it's not that bad if people were slightly more educated that 256mb7900gt is not just 25gmb or graphics ram. A 256mb 7800gt can beat a 512mb 6800u. When people understand this we'll have less problems with people beliving intel is extremly great. But also remember that not all those people are gamers. I would happily put an intel intagrated garphics in my moms PC.
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Old 17th July, 2006, 09:58 AM
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Pretend I'm a consumer, and I've gone down to BestBuy (or Dixons, or whoever) to buy a computer, but I know about as much about computers as I do about cars. That is, a car has four wheels, aircon and I have to fill it up with gas to keep it going.

Now you're telling me I need to know that a 78xyus is better than a 92skax? Like, I just plug the thing in and it goes, right? After all, it's the latest model, so it'll run everything!
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Old 17th July, 2006, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
Pretend I'm a consumer, and I've gone down to BestBuy (or Dixons, or whoever) to buy a computer, but I know about as much about computers as I do about cars. That is, a car has four wheels, aircon and I have to fill it up with gas to keep it going.

Now you're telling me I need to know that a 78xyus is better than a 92skax? Like, I just plug the thing in and it goes, right? After all, it's the latest model, so it'll run everything!
That isn't what you do though. You recently wanted a plasma screen, so you did a great deal of research, poked around for some people with experience buying them, and made an educated choice.

I wanted to buy a watch recently, and I knew rather little about watches. So I spoke to various people, read many reviews and articles, and came to the decision that I needed a watch with a saphire face, solid construction, a flexible metal band, with a very safe locking system, a chronograph, and no sharp edges. I found the best buy was a Tag Heuer Formula 1, so I then bought it.

In this day and age, ignorance is no excuse. You can go from no knowledge, to plenty of knowledge, in a very short period of time, by reading multiple internet articles, talking to experts, talking to other consumers, and thinking of your own requirements.

To go into any purchase where price is in the realm of laptop or desktop computers blind given all the oportunities makes no sense at all, and anyone that does would have to be a complete moron. The old fools and their money saying comes in well here. Research your purchase, or don't ever complain.

You, and nearly every other person on this forum is very good at doing this, and its a skill everyone should have.
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Old 17th July, 2006, 12:26 PM
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when I was upgrading my paintball gun for the first time I spemt many hours of reasearch probly a few hundred just to figure out my setup. But the bad gpu problem lies not only with intel but when companies like HP sell modern dual core computers with an AGP slot...
Also when it comes to think about all intagrated cards pretty much suck, intel,ati and nvidia alike.
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Old 17th July, 2006, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsio
In this day and age, ignorance is no excuse. You can go from no knowledge, to plenty of knowledge, in a very short period of time, by reading multiple internet articles, talking to experts, talking to other consumers, and thinking of your own requirements.
I somewhat disagree here actually. Given that you are asking people who can barely managed to send an email to do that level of research and understand the output seems to be expecting rather too much. Not only that, but given the number of claims and counterclaims you can read, and many of them will simply come away with less of a clue than they had before.

It is fine to say that they should understand it - however, why should consumers have to understand every nut and bolt under the hood to be able to use it? Given the number of times I'm asked for advice by the older generation (60+), it's quite clear that the groundwork for computing concepts isn't there. Many of them do not have the framework for such abstract concepts I'm afraid.
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Old 17th July, 2006, 04:58 PM
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The proof is in the pudding. Today alone 1000's of people must have bought new PCs and walked out of the shop having no real idea as to what they just bought.

"Does it do internet?"
"Yes."
"OK, wrap it up."
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Old 17th July, 2006, 07:09 PM
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My rule of thumb is a week of research for every $200 item I purchase at least. Better yet a week of research per $150-200.

My recent upgrade of my computer cost about $700, and I had been researching it on and off since February. I totaled about 8 weeks of looking at reviews, info, and prices for at least part of the day.

Honestly, I probably could've bought something worthwhile after only a week or two of research. However, I wanted the best bang for buck as I could get, and since I hadn't upgraded for 2 years I wanted to understand everything.

Actually, sometimes even if it would have no effect on my purchase I yearned to know what made <insert computer part here> tick. I understood the HTT and memory controllers of A64s, the properties of the pipelines in the new videocards. I researched how to overclock just about everything in my computer before I purchased it to see how much I could squeeze out of it.

Knowledge is power, and who doesn't want power?
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Old 17th July, 2006, 07:15 PM
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Some people do not have that much time available. For some things purchased, I would need to spend over 30 weeks researching...
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Old 17th July, 2006, 07:19 PM
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True, but in a week or two I could have made a purchase that was probably in the range of what I did get after 8 weeks. Look at some benchmarks, look at some prices...and then I'm ready to go. But I wanted to know more, so I learned more.

And I'm very glad that I did 8 weeks of research instead of 1.
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Old 17th July, 2006, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
I somewhat disagree here actually. Given that you are asking people who can barely managed to send an email to do that level of research and understand the output seems to be expecting rather too much. Not only that, but given the number of claims and counterclaims you can read, and many of them will simply come away with less of a clue than they had before.

It is fine to say that they should understand it - however, why should consumers have to understand every nut and bolt under the hood to be able to use it? Given the number of times I'm asked for advice by the older generation (60+), it's quite clear that the groundwork for computing concepts isn't there. Many of them do not have the framework for such abstract concepts I'm afraid.
I'd like to present myself as a bit of a test case here. I have some basic knowledge, I know that If I want to be happy I'll have to do as Dsio suggests when buying and research.

But here's where the problems begin to arise!

What I need to know about a Plasma screen isn't simple!

I'm totally ignorant of most of the terms and more importantly ignorant of which of them are really critical!

Which manufactures are trust worthy? Which reviews are honest. How will a Plasm monitor run on my Nvidia, which Nvidia do I need, Which CPU, how will it run on this MB?

Now I have considerable time to give to this one purchase.... But I wanted to upgrade several other items as well.

Honestly I think it to much to ask the casual consumer, to have or take the time to really understand the trade offs when buying whole computers, let alone parting out one to put together.

Finally they ARE the manufacture, they should be able to tell us in a clear and precise way what they are wanting us to buy , for what and why it's better than XXY.
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Old 17th July, 2006, 07:34 PM
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I feel that we tend to forget how odd we are! LOL

This is a hobby and a passion for many people here, for very very few people elsewhere. We LIKE to learn and know this stuff, everyone else just wants it to work like they said it would, without to steep a learning curve!

I'll bet 70% of people with a computer have never even looked inside? Why should they? They bought a web browser and it's working!! Be happy for them! They help finance our hobby!! LOL
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Old 17th July, 2006, 10:54 PM
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Computers are not toasters.

Unfortunately for everyone, they are being marketed as if they were.
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