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tripo 16th September, 2005 07:01 AM

Nuthin serious guys , But in the light of the upcoming CrossFire Cards ..who do you think is going to lead the market . Is it going to be ATI with its " dragon slayer " the CrossFire ( Any game will do ) or NVIDIA with its installed base of SLI . Any comments/stories regarding experiences (O.C.'ing /Usage ) with ATi vs. NVIDIA cards would be appreciated because most people end up liking one or the other in an everlasting sort of way ......

Pitch 16th September, 2005 07:04 AM

My suggestion is wait for Crossfire come to come out. Then make the decision.

tripo 16th September, 2005 07:21 AM

Ya that seems the sensible thing to do ..But dont u think theyre a bit too late to the market ..Because most of the guys already have jumped over to SLI motherboards and if the perfgormance of the most expensive ATi Card doesnot outstrip those of 2 6800 GT's by some margin....Then we might have to see ATI playing catchup ....And NVIDIA has An IGP in the works ..Looks like they plan to become the Microsoft of Display Cards

chrisbard 16th September, 2005 07:29 AM

What about setting up a 7800 GTX and a Crossfire? Matrox may come up with a possible bridge between those two cards :drink:

tripo 16th September, 2005 07:40 AM

May come up ... But the kind of bridging they might need to do ...two different architectures and even if they come up with some kind of solution to it .They cant use an SLI type of connector cause they wont be supported on the chips.Any integration will have to be on the motherboard ..and that brings us back to the question..NVIDIA already has an established base......At the price points ..will ATI be able to compete

cadaveca 16th September, 2005 09:04 AM

Doesn't matter what retail sales are for any product, really. These only generally amount to 25% or less of a given product. Most are sold to OEM's and developer's, so regardless of performance, ATI's already widespread usage in the market almost guarantees that developer's in the least will be buying ATI cards.

ATI is my personal favorite, but i don't base my hardware purchases on favortism, base it on results. When i bought my current card, favortism did not play a role in what i purchased, quite obviously by my sig. I swore up and down for month's i'd never go SLi, but look what i use now...

Fortunately, I am quite confident that what i have already will meet my needs for a year or so at least, and because of the current platform i adopted, upgrading for me will be quite easy...just plop in a second vid card, and maybe a dualcore, if that's what is needed.

The newest generation of cards are really the point that most systems will be an immediate bottleneck to the card, as not very many CPU's can keep up, never mind that the ram requirements for higher resolutions go up as well, not just on the videocard, but system ram as well.

With this in mind, pretty much anything that ATI can relase, as long as it performs on par with nVidia's solution, will do well enough for them, and if it doesn't, there are many chips in the back wings awaiting the call...

tripo 16th September, 2005 09:28 AM

Well everything's going to be CPU bound ... give the fact about the premiums that display cards command these days. The Display cards endup having more transistors than a CPU and for a specialized purpose .And ATI always seems to add up to having the better end application tech , but NVIDIA has better marketing and product specialiazation focus ..Damn man they have a motherboard line that is going strong , Integrated graphics lined up ,stronger market position , better tie-ups ( with regard to having Intel ) ..etc .
It needs to be a damn strong showing by ATI to slow down NVIDIA.CrossFire i believ is just going to matchup to SLi..7800GTX at the very very best // but the smartest thing for ATI to do would be to concentrate on the next gen technology rather than worry about a lost battle!!
The War is not over yet ...
The icing on the cake would be if ATI snapped up / implemented some sort of a Physics processing capability on their next iteration of display
cards....differentiating themselves from NVIDIA as well as supporting the next hopeful killer tech.

Competition benefits us all except maybe for NVIDIA and ATI :p

cadaveca 16th September, 2005 04:59 PM

That may be true, but with no real competition in the software(OS) front, microsoft plays a far larger role on the release of products taht you realize. I know for a fact that ATI has a card that will stomp ANYTHING nVidia has...but ther is not software to support it properly as of yet.

What software? WGF 2.0.

cadaveca 16th September, 2005 05:54 PM

CROSSFIRE benchmarks can be found here: posted just this morn.

Sander, you are gonna get someone in trouble!!!

chrisbard 16th September, 2005 06:40 PM

WOW I just read that article ! Thanks for sharing Dave. I'll drink some WU's for you. I think 7800 GTX is the KING !

Daniel ~ 16th September, 2005 07:22 PM

Nvidia will continue to mop the floor with ATI. I offer as proof the fact that I own Nvidia and have yet to be tempted by ATI...seems pretty conclusive to me! ":O}

robbie 16th September, 2005 07:34 PM

All bow to the mighty Daniel!!! :)

Daniel ~ 16th September, 2005 07:37 PM

Oh, just buying my old Nvidia cards would be more than enough! LOL

saquib 17th September, 2005 05:22 AM

nVidia will dominate in a classy way... they just know so very well what to do with their business. These guys are really wicked, not only in experience or huge market share... but also in product release and selling strategies. nVidia made that 7 series so long back, and ATI still having trouble to get a grip of that performance, well nVidia has been clearly ahead on technology - you must say. ATI is trying for so long & so hard in every possible way to come up wuth chip to beat nVidia. I think, shaders are always the are for nVidia - thanx to those pipelines; and I beleive its a key role in game visuals, as complex shaders do make games look next gen after all.


Pitch 17th September, 2005 06:06 AM

What a shame for ATi.

Pitch 18th September, 2005 02:15 AM


Originally Posted by saquib
well nVidia has been clearly ahead on technology - you must say. :thumbsup:

R5xx is 90nm, G70 is not. You might want to re-evaluate that statement.

Going 90nm is what's caused all of ATi's problems, but they set themselves up nicely for their next generation of cards.

nVidia will take this round, but next round, when nVidia are forced to use 90nm, I think we will see the tables turned.

~* InSoM *~ 18th September, 2005 02:37 AM

Whether ATI will beat NVidia, you wont know until crossfire comes out and is solid on the market, but for competition, NVidia is miles ahead...

Their next mobo chipset and next range of cards are supposed to have the 8x bandwidth unlocked on SLI, so 16x and 16x, and also they are meeting the competition of ATI in their latest driver update that you dont need 100% identical cards for SLI to work, just the same brand of card.

I have always been an NVidia supporter, but I think they are rushing ahead, they already have the edge of the market over ATI and are learning from their mistakes/downfalls before ATI have even hit the shelves... The battle has already been won in my view.

tripo 18th September, 2005 02:39 AM

That's true Pitch ...
But by the time ATi has gets to the next round in another 6 months i believe NVIDIA will have shifted over to 90 nm. One of the advantages ATI have is
the next gen architecture that they have already implemented for XBOX 360 .So
for the next round ..they could bring that in and maybe take the lead again.But it all depends how good the unified shader architecture and we will know when the XBOX 360 is released .

Pitch 18th September, 2005 02:45 AM

I think ATi arn't in a badder position as we all think.

ATi chose to move to 90nm. It wasn't necessary. And they took a huge gamble with new technology. They expected to get 32 working pipelines, on a totally new core on a totally new manufactering technology.

nVidia now HAS to go 90nm in my opinion and when they do, ATi will be one step. I think ATi's counter blow will come from R580, but we shall soon see.

As I said, it's clear that nVidia have won this round, and rightly so. ATi's gamble didn't pay off, instead, they will pay for it.

cadaveca 18th September, 2005 04:37 AM

LoL. You guys are buying all the hype. the transition to 90nm with the R5xx generation of GPU's has been planned for a couple of years now. This chip was designed for microsoft way back when DX9 was just an idea, and M$ made a call for hardware to develop DX9 on. At the time, ATI brought a few examples of what they could offer, and the "R520", as it is called now, was one of them. The memory interface has been changed a bit, adn the crossfire thing is years old, but not available to the general public. There's a reason for VIVO cards...;).

Anyway, ATi are a very large company, with more than just GPU's as an entry into the market. Thier partnership with Microsoft ensures thier survival in the industry, as well as a leg-up on the competition.

So, regardless of all the mumbojumbo you have read as of late..mind what i have said over the past months regarding ATI. There's a reason that i have had "insider info" on the recent stuff, and it's not becasue i "know someone". It's because i see a seed long ago planted finally becoming one of the most vibrant, colourful, eye-catching flowers mankind has ever seen...

Besides...16 pipes almost equal to the performance of 24 of nVidia's...that's 1/3 less pipes...i think that ATI is doing great, in that regard, as although nVidia may have the fastest card on the public market...R520's have been shipping to developers since January.

Don't forget too...high-end card sales amount to less than 3% of total yearly revenue for either gpu maker. I doubt not having the top card will hurt ATI as bad as everyone thinks. They are about to start to receive royalty revenues from the new XBOX, afterall, while nVidia USED to be recipient of those royalties...and nVidia's replacement for that revenue, the PS3, is not slated to arrive until next year. :rolling: looks like nVidia is the one losing out. ATI focused on the console, and got it out the door, and can now focus on the PC market, while nVidia are busy trying to deal with both at the same time, hoping(and i mean really hoping) that what they have will be enough if ATI's current hype has all been smoke and mirrors. They don't even have the chips made for an "ultra" level of card as of yet, unless IBM has been fabbing them while running the RSX off. TSMC definately does not have any such unit in production.

ATI didn't gamble at all...this has all been planned. If they really wanted a 32pipe unit, it would be what was hitting the shelves next month, i promise you that much.

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