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Hardware Hacking The hammer and tongs school of Overclocking. (NOT for the beginner and you assume all risks)


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Old 19th March, 2003, 08:23 AM
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Overclocking my AMD 2000+?

I boosted (without touching the processor chip) my AMD 2000+ to a 2200+ 1.79 ghz and my FBS is set at 143 with the multiplier on auto, doing this through BIOS. I have a geforce ti 4400 set at 300/600 mhz and going about 30 mhz higher causes a black screen and my computer is unable to start. When I set my FBS higher than 145 the system also is unable to startup or enter windows. I am wondering if there are any additional tweaking possibilities to overclock even more. I know my AMD is capable of more ghz, but i'm not sure about additional BIOS settings I have not yet used. Further, how do you increase system BUS?

Also I have heard of unlocking the amd chip, but am unsure of the procedure, and actual outcome of unlocking the processor.

Any tips, suggestions, or opinions about BIOS, Win XP configuring, Nvidia, or any options i have to overclock will be helpful. Thanks, -kevin

Oh yea, and my motherbaord is a KT3 Ultra-ARU (MS-6380E) ATX Mainboard

I was unable to give a picture of Wcpuid, the browser wouldnt let me, ill try again in the future.
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Last edited by Mccallbros; 19th March, 2003 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 20th March, 2003, 12:24 PM
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The problem your experiencing is a result of under-voltage to the CPU. First it's important to determine if your CPU is either a newer TBred (Thoroughbred) or older Palomino model. The difference being the Pamlomino is based on an .18micron size die which uses more core-voltage or Vcore. The Pamlomino's default Vcore is 1.75V (1.75Volts) the TBred is based on the newer .13micron die size, and it's core voltage (Vcore) is 1.6V, as the "die" or Core size is smaller it uses less current. This is important because your going to have to go into your BIOS and raise the Vcore from it's default voltage to a higher voltage. This is the reason your not able to POST, or boot into Windows. If the CPU (or processor) isn't getting the extra voltage it needs at higher FSB speeds it simply won't boot.

IF your using MSI's Fuzzy Logic overclocking utlility, and raising the FSB to 145FSB, and then the system won't boot into Window's, it's because overclocking utlities like Fuzzy Logic which work through Windows can raise the FSB, but not the Vcore (voltage to the CPU). Your going to have to go into the BIOS and rasie the Vcore higher. Your motherboard's BIOS will only allow a maximum Vcore limit of 1.85V. So whether you have a Tbred or Palomino, a safe setting would be 1.8V. Try raising the Vcore to 1.8V, then Save and Exit the BIOS, and try raising the FSB to 145FSB in Fuzzy Logic again. If it still doesn't boot, go back into the BIOS and raise the Vcore to 1.85V and that should definately do it.

If you have a TBred, it's possible you'll be able to change the Multiplier as well.ecause many Tbred's are supposedly coming "Factory Unlocked" (meaning the multiplier is adjustable in the BIOS). The Multiplier is what determines your CPU's default speed. Your XP2000 whether a TBred or Palomino runs at; 1667MHz or 12.5x 133FSB=1667MHz the multiplier being 12.5 and the default FSB being 133 (or 266FSB DDR in reference to the memory used, DDR memory.) The following Link is to a review of your motherboard by Neoseeker;  http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...ikt3aru/2.html  they, (using a 1700+ which runs at 1467MHz=11x133FSB) acheived a FSB of 187FSB or 2057MHz!!! This is one way to tell they most likely used a TBred, becasue as I said earlier the Tbred's core voltage is only 1.6V, and if the MSI KT3 Ultra's maximum Vcore in the BIOS is 1.85V they had more room to play with then if they used a Palomino, already needing 1.75V default.

I hope this helps you understand Overclocking, and why your not able to run a higher FSB at present. NOW if rasing the Vcore doesn't work, there are other solutions or options to try such as changing the memory timings in the BIOS, or rasing the voltage to the memory, which is known as VDIMM (voltage to the DIMM's) or VDDR (voltage to the DDR). Finally here's another review of your motherboard from AMDMB.com; http://www.amdmb.com/article-display...0&PageID=3

 
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Old 20th March, 2003, 02:41 PM
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Here's some Overclocking links, the first is a "tutorial" from ModtheBox, which is an excellent introduction; http://www.modthebox.com/overclock.html

These below are actual methods to physically "unlock" the multipler/CPU. Of course as I stated earlier, just as there are different types and core-size's on processors (i.e. Thunderbird 100/133FSB, Palmonio 133FSB, Thoroughbred 133/166FSB, Barton 166FSB) there will be different methods to "unlock" or overclock each. One of the simplest methods to unlock the full range of multipliers on TBred's only is to close the 5th L3 bridge, which can be done using no more then a steady hand, maginfier, and conductive ink (remember this is for the Factory unlocked TBred's). Here's a link to that one; http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=118669

Here's another method using a piece of wire (also for Tbreds); http://www.ocworkbench.com/2002/amd/...ocktbredp1.htm

And another great guide with excellent close-up's of the "bridges" on the chips; http://www.overclockers.com/tips702/

Hope this helps you! Let us know how far you get with rasing the Vcore to 1.8V or 1.85V, and you may want to raise the VDIMM too, to 2.7V. Then run Fuzzy Logic, try 150FSB. If it doesn't post try 149 etc. Your board has the capability to reach 220FSB!
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Old 20th March, 2003, 11:36 PM
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One more quick question. My Multiplier can already reach 13 without messing with the system processor, so if I unlock it, will I want to set the multiplier higher than that? Also will I achieve a more speedy system by having a lower multiplier and a higher FSB or a higher multiplier and a lower FSB? And How do I raise the BUS mhz? Will the unlocking of the processor allow me to raise the BUS mhz or what exactly does unlocking do? Thanks for your earlier response.
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Old 22nd March, 2003, 05:43 AM
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I'm not trying to interrogate you as a "school'marm" would, but did you take the time to read through the article; "Overclocking 101" at ModtheBox? Let me reiterate one question, what processor do you have Tbred or Palomino? If you can raise your multiplier to 13x, then it seems as if it's already "factory unlocked", and most likely a Tbred. Using the wire method or the methods I provided links to, should allow access to higher multipleirs. This is a very simple way to raise the processor FSB clock speed, without affecting other devices running off the FSB, such as AGP/PCI. This is the best way to simply increase the CPU's clock speed, but also the fastest way to "fry" a processor, as employing higher mutiplier's will require raising the Vcore (voltage to the CPU). In my opinion the "best" method for overclocking is to utiliize a combination of both method's, raising/lowering the multiplier, and raising/lowering the FSB. In this manner, you have the greatest control, and flexibility. Of course when you pose the question; "Will I achieve a more speedy system...?" the term "system" pertains to the "system" as a whole, all the components or buses. To acheive a "more speedy system" you would want to (buy faster components, he he) raise the FSB, as this will affect the PCI/AGP and memory speeds, along with processor clock speed. 

The primary obstacle preventing high overclock's using the FSB alone, is that BUS speeds of different devices have different tolerances. For example, your AGP or vidoecard BUS runs at a deafult speed of 66MHz, your PCI or modem, soundcard, etc BUS run's at a default speed of 33MHz. In order to circumvent these obvious differences in bus speeds, motherboard makers have implemented what is known as a Divider, to ensure each bus will run at its default speed. In fact every CPU FSB has a divider, and that divider is dependent upon the system's default FSB speed. In fact most mainboard chipsets have several dividers so the AGP and PCI devices will run at their rated speeds, even if the motherboard accomodates different model CPU's. For example the Duron runs at a 100MHz FSB, the older Thunderbird's operated at either 100FSB or 133FSB, and the newer Thoroughbred's, and Barton's run at 166FSB. Current Divider formulas are as follows 3:2:1, 4:2:1, 5:2:1, and 6:2:1 (although I've yet to see the latter). Your processor running at a FSB speed of 133MHz, (or 266FSB DDR) works from the following formula 4:2:1; which says, the AGP clock will be the processor FSB clock divided by 4 and times 2. The PCI clock will be the processor FSB clock divided by 4 and times 1. OR; AGP = 133FSB / 4 = 33.25MHz x 2 = 66.5MHz, PCI = 133FSB / 4 = 33.25MHz x 1 = 33.25MHz.

 Most motherboard's come with a detailed manual, and you'd be shocked to find just about every question you ask will be answered in your manual. Of course, human nature being what it is, I imagine your teacher may have used this same adage; "When all else fails, follow the instructions!" Anyway I wrote a long a-- explanation for you, and I just looked at the Fuzzy Logic utility. I had no idea it allowed such adjustments from within Windows!!! My god man, had I known MSI's overclocking utility offered, Multiplier, FSB, AGP, PCI adjustment PLUS Vcore AND monitored the CPU's temperature, I may have got one a few years ago. What really confuses nme, is why they would offer a overclocking utility of this depth, and flexibility, yet have no overclock friendly dividers, like 5:2:1? I'm surprised you have any questions? I would try simply raising the multiplier to 14x, and raise the Vcore as well to 1.85V, and see if she posts. Don't even mess with the FSB just yet. By the way here's quote from that Neoseeker article, although I still can't conceive of how they achieved such a high processor FSB clock speed off a default 4:2:1 divider; "How far did I get you might ask... 187Mhz FSB is where I topped out on this board. Putting my PCI bus at 46.75Mhz. Meaning I very well could have gone higher with this board had MSI supported a higher divider. Due to the PCI bus being at such a high speed this was far from stable." I just don't get this one though. Every other review I read, barely got above 138-145FSB with similiar CPU's? For anyone reading this post, what am I stupid, how come Fuzzy Logic hasn';t been praised as an overclockers dream? This makes Gigabyte's EasyTune IV no better then Soft-FSB;

 
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Last edited by Liquid3D; 23rd March, 2003 at 05:55 PM.
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