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Hardware Hacking The hammer and tongs school of Overclocking. (NOT for the beginner and you assume all risks)


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10th April, 2005, 05:09 AM
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The new guy and his woe

Hey guys, 1st post. I don't believe I haven't come across this site 'til now.
I can usually be found at the OCC or Virtual-Octane.net.

Anyway to the point.

My problem is, I tried the GT -> Ultra flash on the BFG 6800GT OC with no success...yet. The upside is that I didn't ruin my card...yet

Every time I try to flash, I get: "Cannot open swap file C:\cwsdpmi.swp" when the flash begins, then I get:
"I/O error: Cannot Open file: 6800U_ROM.rom" It shows up on the disk, but I even try to force it to flash....nothing...although I'm not man enough to use the -e command just yet

I got a little antsy not being able to pull off the mod, so I decided to try OC'ing it to Ultra speeds (425/1100) with stock cooling.
It pulled it off quite nicely with the card never topping 65C. Which apparently is pretty decent for the stock cooler on this card..
Only problem is, it doesn't seem to yield very many extra 3DMarks.

Here it is with cpu at 250Mhz (3.75Ghz) and card at stock...
http://home.comcast.net/~pent_up_rag...k_at250Mhz.JPG

I ran 3DM03 once bone stock, cpu and card as it boots...
http://home.comcast.net/~pent_up_rag...no__tweaks.JPG

Then over the afternoon and evening, I oc'd the cpu back up to 235Mhz, 1:1 and then got the card to 425/1100.
It only yielded another 160 points...what gives?
http://home.comcast.net/~pent_up_rag...d_to_Ultra.JPG

I even tried Master's Tweak Guide. We won't even go into that craptacular-ness. Not his guide, my scores after following it.

Here's Bone stock with tweaks at 8x6...10 points worse
http://home.comcast.net/~pent_up_rag...weaked_8x6.JPG

..and again, stock at 10x7...ANOTHER 10 points lower.
http://home.comcast.net/~pent_up_rag...eaked_10x7.JPG

This isn't a question of benchmark scores, other wise I would have posted in the benchmark section.

The question is WHY are my scores are so consistent even comparing stock to a 250Mhz OC with a 6800GT OC'd to Ultra speeds.

Thanks for any info you guys can give.

BTW, nice place you got here.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10th April, 2005, 09:21 AM
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Flashing the card works on some makes, but not on others. You need to make sure you flash your card with the ultra bios meant for that card, not a generic bios. This is particularly true for a BFG card, which is not standard by any means.

Also, 425 is not ultra speed.

6800GT = 350mhz/1000mhz
6800U = 400mhz/1100mhz
6800UE = 450mhz/1200mhz

as far as the lack of a performance gain when overclocking, it should really have an impact. i get around 2000 more points from my overclock. That said, dont take 3Dmark too seriously, especially 3Dmark03.
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Last edited by dsio; 10th April, 2005 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 10th April, 2005, 09:41 AM
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The flash to ultra will get you no more points at all, just simply change the way your card is identified. So, no need to be concerned there.

As to you point problems, tweaking for max points is only something that someone can do with a machine infront of them.

That being said, ignore 3dmark, and go with aquamark. it gives a much better scale of performance, both overall frames(the end score), and a seperate CPU and video score. Higher CPU scores will allow for higher vid scores, as you would imagine, and the way it scales is pretty accurate.

3dmark03 is crap. Seriously. It is not a good judge of performance...the names of parts is what matters for scoring. run an 6800GT @ ultra scores, get less. flash the bios, and it scores higher, when identified as an ultra. But load up a game of any sort, or any other benchmark, adn the score will not change when you flash to the ultra bios. 3dMark03 was the center cof controversy shortly after it came out, and caused quite an uproar.


Looks like you are using XP...use a system restore and go back.
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Old 10th April, 2005, 10:02 AM
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The flash does have one major effect, and that is voltage.

The Ultra BIOS gives the GPU core and memory an extra 0.05V over the GT BIOS.

The Ultra Extreme BIOS gives the GPU core and memory a further 0.05V over the Ultra, or a total of 0.1V more than the GT BIOS.

All this means is an Ultra BIOS on a GT card will allow it to overclock a bit further, and a UE bios allows it to overclock further still.

In BFG's range they have an OC series, which i believe you have. The OC 6800GT has a .05V increase over the GT, so essentially, it is already an Ultra BIOS.

The later 6800GT OCs from BFG only have an extra 0.025, so if its brand new, it will be that, if its not it will be .05.

This is part of the reason BFGs dont flash well, as they use very much custom bioses.

And yea... 3dMark03 is crap. All the reviewers dumped it not long after it was released. Aquamark is the best synthetic benchmark, and 3dMark05 isnt too bad. 3Dmark2001 is an extremely good benchmark, particularly for memory and CPU testing.
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Old 10th April, 2005, 05:46 PM
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Thanks guys.
I went ahead and bumped the cpu and card to 240Mhz(3.6Ghz) and 414/1008 respectively.
Not to mention I switched to the 76.44 drivers from MVKTech
http://home.comcast.net/~pent_up_rag...008-3.6Ghz.JPG

I know 3DM03 sucks, but since that's what I've been running, I just want to keep it the same for now so all the numbers are relative.

And I WAS trying to flash with the BFG Ultra BIOS.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10th April, 2005, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsio
The flash does have one major effect, and that is voltage.

Yes, you are right, however, a voltmod with a variable resistor is more my style.


3dmark03 is ok, but like i said, it does not show performance in a real scale, so basing anything on those numbers is nota good idea...well it's not so bad, but...

other tests will help you get more points with thier scores, as how you score in the individual tests will give you more info than in anything in 3dmark03. 3dmark05 is video-heavy...sometimes getting more CPU speed will not raise points...3dmark01 does not really seperate tests well enough...higher cpu scores will increase overall.
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Old 11th April, 2005, 12:02 AM
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yea, 3dmark05 is what will really show you what your video card OC is doing. If you want to download a copy, make sure you get the 1.2.0 install. (its at AOAFiles.com by the way)

I still find those benchmarks to be more a matter of showing off and competing with people rather than an accurate scale of performance. But who cares. I still like beating people in 3dmark. I remember back in 2001, i was at a LAN in the city, and a couple of hard core gamers, clan leaders, were just about to bash each other up over the whole GF4TI4600 VS ATI 9700Pro war. then the GF4 owner shouted "Cmon you *****, lets bench."

3 different resolutions of code creatures later, the Geforce 4 won by a nose.

Damn i was proud that day lol.

Ive never been beaten by a 9700Pro since.

EDIT: for god sake i hate it when the word "pussie" gets censored when it never gets used in its offensive context on an overclocking forum anyway. Its a cat, and a low level unsult similar to "wuss". If that gets blocked, then Doggy needs to be blocked as well. Else its just predjudicial.
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Old 11th April, 2005, 12:40 AM
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LoL: nice rant there dsio. Make you feel good?

Would you have been one of the guys about to fight who owned the GF4TI4600?
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Old 11th April, 2005, 04:24 AM
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damn right!


» http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6431602

14,000 on a watercooled Geforce 4 TI 4600 and a watercooled Palomino 2100+.

The tool with the 9700Pro could only pull 13,300 on his Pentium 4 2.56.

It wasnt that he lost. It wasnt that I won. It was the fact that both his entire clan, and my entire clan, plus around 40 bystanders were watching the benching. Everybody read magazines about how the 9700Pro was 300% faster than a TI4600, so nobody believed it could win. Particularly his clan. They were talking trash for a good 20 minutes until the benching was over.

Bottom line is it isnt what you have, its how you use it.

If you buy a 9700Pro, dont overclock it, and install the stock drivers that you got with the CD, and dont know how to tweak your settings for benching, you will always go down to someone who is running a lower specced machine, but understands what hes doing.

Money doesnt buy speed. Knowledge and experience does. He learned that the hard way. And not only let down himself, but also his clanmates.
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Old 11th April, 2005, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsio
If that gets blocked, then Doggy needs to be blocked as well. Else its just predjudicial.
Yeah? We can arrange it!
Note: Áedán is suffering from a sense of humour failure caused by travelling half way around the world
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Old 11th April, 2005, 06:36 AM
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I tweaked my card and got it up to 15125 up from 12000 @ stock.
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Old 12th April, 2005, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
Yeah? We can arrange it!
Note: Áedán is suffering from a sense of humour failure caused by travelling half way around the world
Someone throw Aedan a bone!!!
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Old 12th April, 2005, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
Yeah? We can arrange it!
All your base....
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Old 13th April, 2005, 08:15 AM
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ummmm.not to disrupt your pleasant conversation and all...but anyone have any insight to my flash problem?

BTW, I updated to the 76.44 drivers and this thing absoultely screams. But, I would like to get that extra .25V-.5V.
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Old 13th April, 2005, 08:56 AM
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I would say dont bother. Its more risky than doing a hardware volt mod. BFGs are impossible to flash properly. Please excuse the admins and staff for their constant spamming, they dont know any better
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