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Hardware Hacking The hammer and tongs school of Overclocking. (NOT for the beginner and you assume all risks)


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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 2nd February, 2008, 08:34 PM
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Well, welcome aboard. We look forward to having you here.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 20th February, 2008, 01:02 PM
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Kinda weak imo. in the running for the captain obvious award though... /ponder
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 20th February, 2008, 01:33 PM
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Sorry, that was rude. It just seems very overcomplicated. you don't need to do anything but maintain the proper voltage, and add as many batteries as you want.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 20th February, 2008, 04:11 PM
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http://www.dansdata.com/upsupgrade.htm
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 20th February, 2008, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necorum View Post
exactly, and if you wanted to use more batteries in a single battery ups, throw as many as you want at it and wire them parallel. If you want to add more to a larger UPSs you add series wired pairs in parallel.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 21st February, 2008, 01:02 PM
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There is a limit to how many batteries the UPS charger can handle in terms of actually getting much charge into them. However, I'm surprised that Dan's upgrade didn't include any safety device - UPS batteries typically come with a fuse between batteries. This is to guard against the possibility of the UPS inverter itself short circuiting batteries. Gizmo's mod includes this!

Also, Gizmo's mod provides information to the UPS about the batteries that are connected, which is used for things such as runtime calculation (although I don't know about charging). For dumb UPSes, this isn't a big deal. However, for smarter UPSes, this is handy.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 21st February, 2008, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azriel View Post
exactly, and if you wanted to use more batteries in a single battery ups, throw as many as you want at it and wire them parallel. If you want to add more to a larger UPSs you add series wired pairs in parallel.
I'm guessing you didn't read my article, or at least didn't read it all the way through.

While it is certainly true that IN PRINCIPLE, you can simply add more batteries in parallel with the existing battery in order to increase your run-time, in practice, at least with the SmartUPS 1400 used here, it doesn't work that way.

See, the SmartUPS 'knows' how many batteries are attached, based on information you give it via configuration commands. You can put as many batteries as you like on there, of whatever capacity you desire, and your run time won't change. Why? Because, if the Smart-UPS only thinks it has one 36 AH of capacity (one battery) it's only gonna run that long. I'm guessing this is done as some kind of safety feature, since it is obviously also sensing the battery voltage.

Because of this fact, you MUST add capacity in 36 AH increments, or the UPS gets screwy ideas about how much capacity it SHOULD have versus how much it actually DOES have, and you'll end up either not using your available capacity, or getting 'Bad Battery' warnings, AND you MUST configure the UPS so that it knows how many batteries there are. Further, the UPS will only allow you to plug in a maximum of (I believe) 4 battery packs. I think this is also done as a safety feature, to limit the surge current for charging when the cells go flat.

As for being unnecessarily complicated, I suppose that rather depends on how you look at it. It is true that you could simply use some alligator clips and jumper the batteries together. I was going for something a little more 'polished' than that. In addition, simply jumpering the batteries together doesn't prevent an internal short in one battery from destroying the entire array, and maybe the UPS too. That's why there's a 100 amp car fuse in there.

Last edited by Gizmo; 21st February, 2008 at 04:48 PM.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 21st February, 2008, 07:11 PM
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All of which give us cause to be particularly proud of being able to host and post Gizmo's guides...":O}
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 22nd February, 2008, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
In addition, simply jumpering the batteries together doesn't prevent an internal short in one battery from destroying the entire array, and maybe the UPS too. That's why there's a 100 amp car fuse in there.
Seen that happen in a much larger UPS array in a previous employment - the battery cabinet pretty much melted after a battery went short and took the rest of the array with it. Twas an evacuate the building and call the fire brigade job.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 22nd February, 2008, 08:11 PM
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Your life in Computing is so much more exicting than I initally thought it could be! ":O}
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2008, 08:30 AM
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I have connected a 135ah battery to my apc ES-500 back up ups. I connected it to the battery cable.

Also add a pole switch for controlling during power cut. The 135ah battery is connected to my inverter also. So it charges it.

But i am not getting backup not more 10 min from it. Please help me. Urgent.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 13th September, 2008, 08:04 PM
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I believe the newer APCs actually include a small communications circuit in the battery pack. If you don't have that circuit, the UPS will simply not recognize the battery. AFAIK, there's no way around it.

Last edited by Gizmo; 13th September, 2008 at 08:05 PM.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 14th September, 2008, 03:01 AM
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I have connected my 12v 135 ah battery to the battery cable of my small battery inside it. Apc recognize the internal small battery. Why it i am not getting back up? Both are 12v batteries.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 14th September, 2008, 08:39 PM
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The chip is built into the battery pack itself. Simply adding a battery pack to the same cable won't work, if the chip isn't present in the battery pack that you are adding as well. In addition, I rather suspect that the Back-UPS ES series don't even allow for adding additional battery capacity, so you could probably add batteries to the thing until the end of time, and it wouldn't affect your run-time.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 15th September, 2008, 12:41 PM
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No after the APC battery got damaged, i brought a new one from a third party. I am sure it don't have a chip. But it is working fine. No difference from original apc battery. Just don't have the sticker of apc. When i removed the sticker of my old apc battery it is a exide battery which is available in market. I am sure there is no chip inside or outside it.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 15th September, 2008, 01:10 PM
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Stupid question - have you performed a runtime calibration on the UPS?
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 15th September, 2008, 01:24 PM
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runtime calibration on the UPS? How can i do it?
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 15th September, 2008, 01:31 PM
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Dear Gizmo,

I would like to tell you something. At first time i got 22% extra charge when i switch on my external battery switch. But the next time it turned off my system at 0%. But now i see that i am getting backup at 0% charge. I don't know what is happening. But i see It is working perfectly.

After some more time the charge level increased from 0% to 11% then now to 25%.

I think my connection is working. But my load on battery backup increased by 100w. Also % of charge is changing.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 15th September, 2008, 01:31 PM
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Red face

And i got backup from my external battery for only 20-25min.
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Last edited by starweb; 15th September, 2008 at 01:48 PM.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 15th September, 2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starweb View Post
No after the APC battery got damaged, i brought a new one from a third party. I am sure it don't have a chip. But it is working fine. No difference from original apc battery. Just don't have the sticker of apc. When i removed the sticker of my old apc battery it is a exide battery which is available in market. I am sure there is no chip inside or outside it.
Ah, ok. I was thinking you had ADDED a battery, not REPLACED one. Then, as Áedán has said, you should do a run-time calibration on it. When you bought the UPS, you should have received a CD with some management software on it. If you haven't installed that software, you really should, as it will provide tools to monitor the UPS. Among other things, that software will allow you to tell the UPS that you have replaced the battery, and to perform a run-time calibration so that it knows how much better capacity is available.
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