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Intel Motherboards & CPUs Questions or comments on INTEL products?


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 8th October, 2004, 10:55 PM
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P4 'F' Spec hits retail

I just noticed this evening that OCUK now have in stock a P4 LGA775 3.4GHz 'F'

Whats so special about the F i hear you ask. Well its the stepping that brings EM64T intels answer to the amd x86-64bit. It appears now to be avaliable in retail as for the last few months its been big wig oem's only to get these chips.

Is anyone tempted to get one and take it round the block I sure am and I may soon have a trickle of an income which will allow me to 'rebalance' the kit I have in the house.

I wonder how these puppies fold !

Somthing they have noted is that they require specific bios support to work, I wonder how many lga mobo's wont work :s

Has anyone seen a review of the F spec chip as i'm interested to see if it makes any differences to how it runs.

K

Linkie http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatal..._4_LGA775.html
Notice its £30 more than the normal 3.4GHz chip !
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Old 8th October, 2004, 11:48 PM
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Old 8th October, 2004, 11:49 PM
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surely it's no differant from a typical prescott at the moment though? unless you use linux of course
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Old 8th October, 2004, 11:51 PM
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actually, it isn't apparantly. the prescott had the functionality from the start, but emt64 was disabled, or so i heard.
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Old 9th October, 2004, 12:09 AM
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thats what I read as well, just like HT was disabled on early northwoods
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Old 9th October, 2004, 04:37 AM
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I like the new pimp P4s.
now AMD can quit singing so loud..lol
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Old 9th October, 2004, 11:46 AM
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Maybe when Intel actually support an IOMMU in their 64bit extensions?

Most PCI and AGP devices are only 32bit, so they can't handle 64bit addresses. AMD's 64bit architecture has a section known as an IOMMU, which maps memory address for 32bit devices. This means that PCI and AGP cards may have difficulty talking to memory. To work around this issue in EM64T, the OS has to reserve a section of memory that's within the 32bit address space that the PCI/AGP device can talk to. Once the device has done it's transfer (eg, a disk read), then the processor has to move the data from that transfer buffer into the bit of memory where it's actually needed.

AMD added an IOMMU that takes care of remapping addresses outside the 32bit space, so it's done transparently in hardware, rather than taking up memory and CPU time. There's some good info on the kernel development page under DMA Issues 2.
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Old 10th October, 2004, 04:41 AM
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Just read the intel product info page and was really depressed by it. I bought an LGA775 mobo with the 915p chipset on hopes that it was 64-bit upgradable but it says these chips only support the 925x chipset. Does this totally pour piss on my upgrading options or what?
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Old 10th October, 2004, 05:12 PM
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amd can still sing as loud as they like cos they're 64bit system is much better than intels, intel is only doing it really for the added memory range that it offers because they still insist 64bit computing is the realm of the itanium chips
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Old 11th October, 2004, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamGarside
amd can still sing as loud as they like cos they're 64bit system is much better than intels
got some proof?
(compare the new "F" to the 64s..)
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Old 12th October, 2004, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkerhead
got some proof?
(compare the new "F" to the 64s..)
Lack of IOMMU. On a fully 64bit system with a decent chunk of memory, this is roughly the same idea as running an ISA IDE controller on a Pentium II motherboard.

It means that the EM64T systems will be incapable of offering the full IO performance required by servers. Presumably this is to ensure they're crippled enough not to compete with the Itaniums. Either that, or they have another "server" chip that has an IOMMU onboard.
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Old 12th October, 2004, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Áedán
Lack of IOMMU. On a fully 64bit system with a decent chunk of memory, this is roughly the same idea as running an ISA IDE controller on a Pentium II motherboard.

It means that the EM64T systems will be incapable of offering the full IO performance required by servers. Presumably this is to ensure they're crippled enough not to compete with the Itaniums. Either that, or they have another "server" chip that has an IOMMU onboard.
lol, I did not mean as in a server, I still have a P3 server, works fine.
I meant as in general performance, multitasking etc...
becuase as far as I can tell AMD still hasn't caught Intel in any of Intel's strong points.
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Old 12th October, 2004, 01:35 AM
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Seems like both Intel and AMD are scared to death that they might screw up and give the consumer "To" good a deal, one not absolutely demanded by the competition...THE HORROR!!!
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Old 12th October, 2004, 01:41 AM
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I say they go back to the way it was, Intel was better performance for a lot more money, and AMD was a little less performance for a lot less money, but now, they have the same performance for the same price, AMD can no longer sing the lower price song.
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Old 12th October, 2004, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkerhead
but now, they have the same performance for the same price, AMD can no longer sing the lower price song.
I've not seen anyone seriously benchmarking the EM64T architecture yet. Too many people are still concentrating on the old IA32 side of things. It's fairly clear that IA32 will slowly go away, and 64bit will replace it, either EM64T or AMD64.

The benchmarks I have seen between EM64T and AMD64 have pretty much shown that the results are highly compiler dependant. If you're using GCC, then AMD64 has the advantage. If you're using the Intel compiler, then EM64T has the advantage. This may well change with time.

One thing to remember is that unlike previous processors, Intel is now copying AMD. The EM64T architecture was arrived at by Intel reverse engineering the AMD64 architecture. There are a few differences - for example, Intel missed a couple of instructions which aren't currently important. Mind you - remember how Intel was saying that AMD's Opterons were taking the wrong approach?
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Old 13th October, 2004, 03:03 AM
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Intel did not copy AMD, not even reversly, becuase the prescotts have had the em64t, but it was not enabled.
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Old 13th October, 2004, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkerhead
Intel did not copy AMD, not even reversly, becuase the prescotts have had the em64t, but it was not enabled.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that Prescott having EM64T indicates that Intel did not copy AMD? Intel has pretty much publically said that they reverse engineered AMD's instruction set in order to support it. Perhaps their mind was rather focused by MS stating they were only going to support limited number of 64bit platforms?
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Old 13th October, 2004, 03:33 PM
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I was under the impression that Intel had access to the actual patents that applied in this case, because of the cross-licensing deal between Intel and AMD way back when? If so, that would have made their reverse engineering that much simpler.
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Old 13th October, 2004, 04:10 PM
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Cross licensing deal? Wow: "You will rue the day... blah blah blah".

I do remember hearing way back about Intel copying AMD 64bit technology, the details were really murky and I was under the impression that that was illegal but now it all seems so clear... wait, now it's murky again.
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Old 13th October, 2004, 04:10 PM
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I remember them saying a while ago that 64-bit was the realm of the Itanium.
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